Anyone who has made their mind up one way or the other isn't too smart. We got good money for outgoing players, but missed em terribly. Incoming players were substandard with the exception of AA who seems to be a bit broken. But the progress on the pitch and academy are there for all to see. The loss of Powell was a big blow for many of us, but his replacement did the job well and steered us out of dirty water with a clam quality, and less resources than our man had at his disposal. Hopefully lessons will have been learned and football trades will improve dramatically. We shall see.
I understand and share your reservations about the network but we were trying before the window closed to sign some decent players from the championship and prem- Eagles, Wickham etc. So although the jury is out regarding the network our hopes may be raised during the next few months with some good signings.
We have a lot to thank RD for but the jury is still very much out on the network philosophy.
The only one of the network players that can be considered even remotely a success is Astrid and the rest - Reza's wonder goal at Leeds apart - were simply nowhere near good enough.
Bottom line is that if you are not considered good enough for the Liege 1st team squad then you are unlikely to be good enough for Championship football.
That's not to say that, for example, Reza is not a very talented player but he does not look cut out for English football.
Indeed, I have said all along that we can only judge RD by what he does in the summer.
Bottom line is that you just cannot do this on the cheap, yes, the youth system is important but HAS to be supported by quality, experience pros and they don't come cheap.
Back in the 90s we took the next step by signing quality players like Mendonca - we need to do the same now.
Totally agree as we will be stuck in mid-table forever without the right signings. The good news is that 15-20 players go this summer who probably made 50 appearances between them. The Watford scorer last night looks like the type of player we need.
Of course Troy Deeney would be a fantastic signing. Now try and sensibly estimate his transfer value ( you could use transfermarkt for want of anything better) and his wages. And then tell us if you expect RD to splash that kind of cash. I will be very surprised.
I think if they do make a serious striker signing it will be from outside the UK, as they will believe there is better value to be had there. But as we have seen with Polish Pete, there are risks, some of them not directly related to footballing ability. Nevertheless, if their scouting network can deliver someone of Deeneys quality, then hats off to them.
I understand and share your reservations about the network but we were trying before the window closed to sign some decent players from the championship and prem- Eagles, Wickham etc. So although the jury is out regarding the network our hopes may be raised during the next few months with some good signings.
We have a lot to thank RD for but the jury is still very much out on the network philosophy.
The only one of the network players that can be considered even remotely a success is Astrid and the rest - Reza's wonder goal at Leeds apart - were simply nowhere near good enough.
Bottom line is that if you are not considered good enough for the Liege 1st team squad then you are unlikely to be good enough for Championship football.
That's not to say that, for example, Reza is not a very talented player but he does not look cut out for English football.
Indeed, I have said all along that we can only judge RD by what he does in the summer.
Bottom line is that you just cannot do this on the cheap, yes, the youth system is important but HAS to be supported by quality, experience pros and they don't come cheap.
Back in the 90s we took the next step by signing quality players like Mendonca - we need to do the same now.
Totally agree as we will be stuck in mid-table forever without the right signings. The good news is that 15-20 players go this summer who probably made 50 appearances between them. The Watford scorer last night looks like the type of player we need.
Of course Troy Deeney would be a fantastic signing. Now try and sensibly estimate his transfer value ( you could use transfermarkt for want of anything better) and his wages. And then tell us if you expect RD to splash that kind of cash. I will be very surprised.
I think if they do make a serious striker signing it will be from outside the UK, as they will believe there is better value to be had there. But as we have seen with Polish Pete, there are risks, some of them not directly related to footballing ability. Nevertheless, if their scouting network can deliver someone of Deeneys quality, then hats off to them.
Agreed! Duchatelet and Riga signed Batshuayi for Liege nearly three years ago and he may be playing in the Champions League for Arsenal next season. Someone with a knowledge of Liege might be able to share more information on the Liege journey which is the only guide we currently have as to what happens next.
The question is twofold: was that a one-off? I doubt it. And is Duchatelet aiming for 65 or 75 points next season? There is a big difference between the two but we are showing 65 point a season form and you have just witnessed two teams in that bracket - Blackburn and Watford. Personally I see no gap between us and Watford. I have no real life experience of signing players but my proposition is that if Duchatelet and Riga(?) show a compelling vision then perhaps Poyet Dervite Morrison and Hamer sign on the dotted line and they can then look to recruit another five or six. Once again no blame nor regrets and no fear for next season. Duchatelet is clinical and decisive... He won't call it right every time but it looks and feels like he is building for our highest league finish since 2007!
For me, we are in a very similar position now to the end of last season - we have the core/ foundation of a good team, but we are patently short in a couple of key areas (creative midfielder/ striker). We also lack depth in the squad as a whole, and need a few more experienced heads to support this fantastic crop of young talent. So, it is all to play for, but that depends on the following:
- Clarity over the management/ coaching team asap, so that they can get on with the job and not leave us scrabbling around at the last minute, as we had to both last summer and in January. - Clarity over the budget - see above - Clarity over who makes the decisions on player recruitment - both who to retain and which new players to target.
This time last season I was optimistic that we could push on and build on that 9th place finish - to the extent that I tipped us as play-off contenders...then it all unravelled as it became clear that there was no budget.
I'd prefer us to build sensibly by keeping Riga, Dyer and Matthew (don't know enough about Fraeye to have an opinion), keeping Phil Chapple and trusting his scouting abilities, whilst casting the net wider through RD's network, keeping experienced and committed team members such as Hamer, Morro and Dervite. (Plus Poyet, of course, but that is likely to come down to his own choice.)
But, who knows? Roland's plan may be to ship out the old guard and start afresh, which might seem more exciting to some, but is much more risky.
So, there is cause for optimism, but in Roland's own words, "Time will tell."
RD ain't lucky he is a calculated business man who won with his strategy
Some may not like it some may rebel against it
But I bet this morning very few can say he has got anything wrong thus far
The investment in the pitch next season
The plans for sparrows
The signing of the youth
The offer to Diego ( let's hope he signs)
The signing of wiggins and jacko
We lost CP when it was proven that he couldn't work with RD and ultimately RD is the boss so what he says goes
But he replaced him with Riga a master stroke and a great mgr
He retained DM and AD to keep the continuity
He has employed a very able CEO in KM and has kept on Prothero and I hear good things about MP
He has plugged the leaky bucket and has given much back
He provided players to give depth to the squad at a time it was needed.
Listen to Rigas words and his noises about the squad and those who have contributed so few mins and how that has given us back a club
The youth are our future he knows this he also knows it's the way to balance the books
But before he is pilloried for that it is no different to any other owner or chair we have had
The network is being used as a rod to hit him with
Me I am going to use it as the stick to measure him with over the next 18months we have access to world wide scouting network and that is a good thing not a bad thing
Thank you RD thank you KM and think you JR
I will also say thank you CP as without the points you gained then JR would've had an impossible job
I understand and share your reservations about the network but we were trying before the window closed to sign some decent players from the championship and prem- Eagles, Wickham etc. So although the jury is out regarding the network our hopes may be raised during the next few months with some good signings.
We have a lot to thank RD for but the jury is still very much out on the network philosophy.
The only one of the network players that can be considered even remotely a success is Astrid and the rest - Reza's wonder goal at Leeds apart - were simply nowhere near good enough.
Bottom line is that if you are not considered good enough for the Liege 1st team squad then you are unlikely to be good enough for Championship football.
That's not to say that, for example, Reza is not a very talented player but he does not look cut out for English football.
Indeed, I have said all along that we can only judge RD by what he does in the summer.
Bottom line is that you just cannot do this on the cheap, yes, the youth system is important but HAS to be supported by quality, experience pros and they don't come cheap.
Back in the 90s we took the next step by signing quality players like Mendonca - we need to do the same now.
Totally agree as we will be stuck in mid-table forever without the right signings. The good news is that 15-20 players go this summer who probably made 50 appearances between them. The Watford scorer last night looks like the type of player we need.
Was there any truth to the rumour that we were prepared to pay 1.5 mill for Max Gradel in January?
Douchalet isn't a fool. He built up a very successful business and now has a strategy for a network of football club. Whether or not it will work, we'll just have to wait and see. I have no doubt he will invest in the squad over the summer, but going by the signings that arrived in Jan, he needs to listen to people who know football, particulary English football.
As RD has said himself, those that arrived in Jan did so because of the short time available and is happy to buy players from outside of his network to bring to the club. Now comes the time for him to put his money where his mouth is, starting with securing contracts for key players. My biggest concern is he talks about running the club without loss. Although I commend him for wanting to achieve this, is it really a possibily to do it in this league? I'm not so sure. What we can't afford is to lose existing players and potential new ones because he won't pay the going rate for players of the standard required................
For me, we are in a very similar position now to the end of last season - we have the core/ foundation of a good team, but we are patently short in a couple of key areas (creative midfielder/ striker). We also lack depth in the squad as a whole, and need a few more experienced heads to support this fantastic crop of young talent. So, it is all to play for, but that depends on the following:
- Clarity over the management/ coaching team asap, so that they can get on with the job and not leave us scrabbling around at the last minute, as we had to both last summer and in January. - Clarity over the budget - see above - Clarity over who makes the decisions on player recruitment - both who to retain and which new players to target.
This time last season I was optimistic that we could push on and build on that 9th place finish - to the extent that I tipped us as play-off contenders...then it all unravelled as it became clear that there was no budget.
I'd prefer us to build sensibly by keeping Riga, Dyer and Matthew (don't know enough about Fraeye to have an opinion), keeping Phil Chapple and trusting his scouting abilities, whilst casting the net wider through RD's network, keeping experienced and committed team members such as Hamer, Morro and Dervite. (Plus Poyet, of course, but that is likely to come down to his own choice.)
But, who knows? Roland's plan may be to ship out the old guard and start afresh, which might seem more exciting to some, but is much more risky.
So, there is cause for optimism, but in Roland's own words, "Time will tell."
I agree with much of this and if we can see it then you can be sure that the decision makers with access to prozone and wages spreadsheets will certainly be looking for solutions through May, June and July. One advantage of Duchatelet's wealth is that he doesn't have to wait until the last minute to sign players, that is until the arrival of TV monies in August.
The subtle difference between now and last summer is that we have even more of a challenge up front and that there are so many players out of contract who simply will not be offered renewals. On the other hand we have Cousins, Fox and others arriving on the scene. Basically no one will be able to accurately describe players or the team as a League 1 outfit because all players will have signed their initial or renewal contract with CAFC in the Championship. Put more simply the real League 1 players will be off to ply their trade in League 1!
As you say Weegie, it would be great if the Board can clarify the top roles asap as this can only help the relationship with fans and season ticket sales. It is a big ask for a new owner to put down what they think is an appropriate structure after just five months so perhaps there will only be clarity on some issues?
Decent signings (and contract renewals) will help and I wonder how many fans were waiting for the result the other night or perhaps to see what the plan is for next season before committing to a season ticket.
I don't think the club will clarify the budget as they feel it is commercially sensitive but fans representatives might well ask what is meant by "break even" and over what timescale. @Mundell Fleming wrote something about this a short while back and I think the FFP definition looks about right, i.e., losses excluding depreciation, player amortisation and academy costs. At present this is probably running at c. £1.5M so not a long way off break even compared to the plethora of clubs losing £10M+ in 2012/13 on an FFP basis.
Apart from increasing the crowds with better football and results the only other way to increase sales is the commercial revenue and/or player sales. Reducing operating costs might be possible but we all know what happens if the club reduces the playing budget! We need a much better team, another year or two of academy players coming through and much higher league position before other clubs will pay top dollar for any of our players.
So yes, "time will tell" and things might be a lot clearer by end June when we will know for sure about Poyet, Hamer, Dervite, Morrison and the others. And again end July when more players arrive. The calibre of the signings this summer will tell us an awful lot about how far and how fast Duchatelet wants to go with CAFC.
I don't think RD will release the budget simply because that allows teams to be able to hold you at ransom for players wither way, if they know you don't have much they can try and force a club into spending all of it or on contrast if RD gives a big spending kitty clubs can try and overprice their players. I would like to know where we go from here
Agreed! Duchatelet and Riga signed Batshuayi for Liege nearly three years ago and he may be playing in the Champions League for Arsenal next season. Someone with a knowledge of Liege might be able to share more information on the Liege journey which is the only guide we currently have as to what happens next.
The question is twofold: was that a one-off? I doubt it. And is Duchatelet aiming for 65 or 75 points next season? There is a big difference between the two but we are showing 65 point a season form and you have just witnessed two teams in that bracket - Blackburn and Watford. Personally I see no gap between us and Watford. I have no real life experience of signing players but my proposition is that if Duchatelet and Riga(?) show a compelling vision then perhaps Poyet Dervite Morrison and Hamer sign on the dotted line and they can then look to recruit another five or six. Once again no blame nor regrets and no fear for next season. Duchatelet is clinical and decisive... He won't call it right every time but it looks and feels like he is building for our highest league finish since 2007!
@seriously_red That could all be true except Duchatelet bought Standard in June 2011, Riga became manager in July 2011 and Batshuayi signed for Standard in 2008 and made his debut in February 2011!
For some reason, the ever reliable transfrmarkt(!) had him down as signing for Liege in July 2011. It appears he signed from their academy at this time so as you say he was at the club and made two appearances in February 2011 during the previous season. So technically Duchatelet and Riga signed him on a pro contract.
Hopefully this error doesn't undermine the whole narrative that Duchatelet is all about youth players.
Best I leave any real understanding of Liege to one of their fans who might explain to us their journey under Duchatelet in terms of changes on and off the pitch.
Best I leave any real understanding of Liege to one of their fans who might explain to us their journey under Duchatelet in terms of changes on and off the pitch.
Yes, I wonder if they were promised any improvements to their "matchday experience"?
Best I leave any real understanding of Liege to one of their fans who might explain to us their journey under Duchatelet in terms of changes on and off the pitch.
Yes, I wonder if they were promised any improvements to their "matchday experience"?
Comments
The question is twofold: was that a one-off? I doubt it. And is Duchatelet aiming for 65 or 75 points next season? There is a big difference between the two but we are showing 65 point a season form and you have just witnessed two teams in that bracket - Blackburn and Watford. Personally I see no gap between us and Watford.
I have no real life experience of signing players but my proposition is that if Duchatelet and Riga(?) show a compelling vision then perhaps Poyet Dervite Morrison and Hamer sign on the dotted line and they can then look to recruit another five or six.
Once again no blame nor regrets and no fear for next season. Duchatelet is clinical and decisive... He won't call it right every time but it looks and feels like he is building for our highest league finish since 2007!
- Clarity over the management/ coaching team asap, so that they can get on with the job and not leave us scrabbling around at the last minute, as we had to both last summer and in January.
- Clarity over the budget - see above
- Clarity over who makes the decisions on player recruitment - both who to retain and which new players to target.
This time last season I was optimistic that we could push on and build on that 9th place finish - to the extent that I tipped us as play-off contenders...then it all unravelled as it became clear that there was no budget.
I'd prefer us to build sensibly by keeping Riga, Dyer and Matthew (don't know enough about Fraeye to have an opinion), keeping Phil Chapple and trusting his scouting abilities, whilst casting the net wider through RD's network, keeping experienced and committed team members such as Hamer, Morro and Dervite. (Plus Poyet, of course, but that is likely to come down to his own choice.)
But, who knows? Roland's plan may be to ship out the old guard and start afresh, which might seem more exciting to some, but is much more risky.
So, there is cause for optimism, but in Roland's own words, "Time will tell."
As RD has said himself, those that arrived in Jan did so because of the short time available and is happy to buy players from outside of his network to bring to the club. Now comes the time for him to put his money where his mouth is, starting with securing contracts for key players. My biggest concern is he talks about running the club without loss. Although I commend him for wanting to achieve this, is it really a possibily to do it in this league? I'm not so sure. What we can't afford is to lose existing players and potential new ones because he won't pay the going rate for players of the standard required................
The subtle difference between now and last summer is that we have even more of a challenge up front and that there are so many players out of contract who simply will not be offered renewals. On the other hand we have Cousins, Fox and others arriving on the scene. Basically no one will be able to accurately describe players or the team as a League 1 outfit because all players will have signed their initial or renewal contract with CAFC in the Championship. Put more simply the real League 1 players will be off to ply their trade in League 1!
As you say Weegie, it would be great if the Board can clarify the top roles asap as this can only help the relationship with fans and season ticket sales. It is a big ask for a new owner to put down what they think is an appropriate structure after just five months so perhaps there will only be clarity on some issues?
Decent signings (and contract renewals) will help and I wonder how many fans were waiting for the result the other night or perhaps to see what the plan is for next season before committing to a season ticket.
I don't think the club will clarify the budget as they feel it is commercially sensitive but fans representatives might well ask what is meant by "break even" and over what timescale. @Mundell Fleming wrote something about this a short while back and I think the FFP definition looks about right, i.e., losses excluding depreciation, player amortisation and academy costs. At present this is probably running at c. £1.5M so not a long way off break even compared to the plethora of clubs losing £10M+ in 2012/13 on an FFP basis.
Apart from increasing the crowds with better football and results the only other way to increase sales is the commercial revenue and/or player sales. Reducing operating costs might be possible but we all know what happens if the club reduces the playing budget! We need a much better team, another year or two of academy players coming through and much higher league position before other clubs will pay top dollar for any of our players.
So yes, "time will tell" and things might be a lot clearer by end June when we will know for sure about Poyet, Hamer, Dervite, Morrison and the others. And again end July when more players arrive. The calibre of the signings this summer will tell us an awful lot about how far and how fast Duchatelet wants to go with CAFC.
Agreed! Duchatelet and Riga signed Batshuayi for Liege nearly three years ago and he may be playing in the Champions League for Arsenal next season. Someone with a knowledge of Liege might be able to share more information on the Liege journey which is the only guide we currently have as to what happens next.
The question is twofold: was that a one-off? I doubt it. And is Duchatelet aiming for 65 or 75 points next season? There is a big difference between the two but we are showing 65 point a season form and you have just witnessed two teams in that bracket - Blackburn and Watford. Personally I see no gap between us and Watford.
I have no real life experience of signing players but my proposition is that if Duchatelet and Riga(?) show a compelling vision then perhaps Poyet Dervite Morrison and Hamer sign on the dotted line and they can then look to recruit another five or six.
Once again no blame nor regrets and no fear for next season. Duchatelet is clinical and decisive... He won't call it right every time but it looks and feels like he is building for our highest league finish since 2007!
@seriously_red That could all be true except Duchatelet bought Standard in June 2011, Riga became manager in July 2011 and Batshuayi signed for Standard in 2008 and made his debut in February 2011!
Hopefully this error doesn't undermine the whole narrative that Duchatelet is all about youth players.
Best I leave any real understanding of Liege to one of their fans who might explain to us their journey under Duchatelet in terms of changes on and off the pitch.