Prague, I get the feeling if we ended up in the blue square southern (or whatever it is) under his stewardship, you would still dismiss any criticism of the man citing circa 1991.
It's 2014 now!!, which means AA has been a fan during the last eight years - *that* is precisely why he is talking about RM's mismanagement. Is he not allowed to make a (correct) judgment based on that? Or does he just ignore all the bad decisions in lieu of the history books?
Well Peanuts has said a great deal, far better than I could, on RM's record, but just to say
- I have never been quite sure what to think about the post Curbs years. It's a part of CAFC history i don't understand well. However when I was discussing it Christmas time with some ITK people, the name of Derek Chappell came up. Not a subject for this Forum, but if you look to hold people to account for our demise, his name would be in the frame
- Generally i think if you are going to appraise someone's performance you take their entire record into account. IN RM's case it goes back to 1991, and is titanic in CAFC history terms, as Peanuts describes. And titanic in terms of his financial contribution relative to his wealth too. Similarly anyone who wants to evaluate Chris Powell at this time absolutely has to take into account his entire managerial reign (but not his playing career).
Prague, I get the feeling if we ended up in the blue square southern (or whatever it is) under his stewardship, you would still dismiss any criticism of the man citing circa 1991.......
Nobody denies that it ended in tears as a result of some very poor decisions by the Board (despite the best of intentions) but if 1991 isn't sufficient for the credit side of the ledger, how about: 1994 - raising funds from fans and bringing around 2,000 of them in (for over 15 years) as part owners of the Club that persuaded 3 of his fellow directors aswell as RM to convert their debt to equity in the Club and take the Club out of the bracket of financial basket-case. Thereafter - regularly issuing personal guarantees to enable the Club to obtain working capital from its bank. 1997 - floating CA PLC on AIM and raising significant capital from dumb City institutions that in the long term enabled the completion of the East Stand and in the short term financed the purchase of SuperClive, crucial to the glorious conclusion to the 1997-98 season. 1998-99 - astutely preserving the financial benefits of promotion to lay the foundations for the Championship winning side of 1999-2000. Along with Curbs, keeping the Club in the Prem for 8 consecutive seasons and, after that went tits-up, doing his damndest to repair the damage, including in 2010 taking on the burden solely of (and succeeding in) keeping the Club out of administration. Whatever one's views of RM's contribution to and/or blame for these two decades of huge ups and downs on the pitch, the fact is that every time you go to The Valley, you're sitting in the stadium that Murray and Curbs built and that is 100% owned by the Club. For that alone, bearing in mind the circumstances we were in when RM originally joined the CAFC Board, I shall always be immensely grateful.
I wonder how far RM would have got post 1997 without Peter Varney, admittedly his appointee, and whether he and some others now prefer to overlook that. I agree with you that RM remains in credit, but I suggest a more balanced overview of the positives from those close to events would help keep criticism in proportion too.
I will always hold him in high esteem. I grew up watching us in the premier league beating all the big teams.
People have different opinions of the 3 managerial position after Curbs and RM decision of hiring them and sacking them. I believe he made every decision with only the best interests of the club.
By Parkinson we were so in the doom playing wise and money wise. He took the cheap option, which a lot of clubs do in that position.
Prague, I get the feeling if we ended up in the blue square southern (or whatever it is) under his stewardship, you would still dismiss any criticism of the man citing circa 1991.......
Nobody denies that it ended in tears as a result of some very poor decisions by the Board (despite the best of intentions) but if 1991 isn't sufficient for the credit side of the ledger, how about: 1994 - raising funds from fans and bringing around 2,000 of them in (for over 15 years) as part owners of the Club that persuaded 3 of his fellow directors aswell as RM to convert their debt to equity in the Club and take the Club out of the bracket of financial basket-case. Thereafter - regularly issuing personal guarantees to enable the Club to obtain working capital from its bank. 1997 - floating CA PLC on AIM and raising significant capital from dumb City institutions that in the long term enabled the completion of the East Stand and in the short term financed the purchase of SuperClive, crucial to the glorious conclusion to the 1997-98 season. 1998-99 - astutely preserving the financial benefits of promotion to lay the foundations for the Championship winning side of 1999-2000. Along with Curbs, keeping the Club in the Prem for 8 consecutive seasons and, after that went tits-up, doing his damndest to repair the damage, including in 2010 taking on the burden solely of (and succeeding in) keeping the Club out of administration. Whatever one's views of RM's contribution to and/or blame for these two decades of huge ups and downs on the pitch, the fact is that every time you go to The Valley, you're sitting in the stadium that Murray and Curbs built and that is 100% owned by the Club. For that alone, bearing in mind the circumstances we were in when RM originally joined the CAFC Board, I shall always be immensely grateful.
I wonder how far RM would have got post 1997 without Peter Varney, admittedly his appointee, and whether he and some others now prefer to overlook that. I agree with you that RM remains in credit, but I suggest a more balanced overview of the positives from those close to events would help keep criticism in proportion too.
Completely agree with you AB and, in my haste and attempt at brevity, I stupidly overlooked his massive role. Peter absolutely should share any accolades......"the stadium that Murray, Curbs and Varney built" (in no particular order!).
Prague, I get the feeling if we ended up in the blue square southern (or whatever it is) under his stewardship, you would still dismiss any criticism of the man citing circa 1991.......
Nobody denies that it ended in tears as a result of some very poor decisions by the Board (despite the best of intentions) but if 1991 isn't sufficient for the credit side of the ledger, how about: 1994 - raising funds from fans and bringing around 2,000 of them in (for over 15 years) as part owners of the Club that persuaded 3 of his fellow directors aswell as RM to convert their debt to equity in the Club and take the Club out of the bracket of financial basket-case. Thereafter - regularly issuing personal guarantees to enable the Club to obtain working capital from its bank. 1997 - floating CA PLC on AIM and raising significant capital from dumb City institutions that in the long term enabled the completion of the East Stand and in the short term financed the purchase of SuperClive, crucial to the glorious conclusion to the 1997-98 season. 1998-99 - astutely preserving the financial benefits of promotion to lay the foundations for the Championship winning side of 1999-2000. Along with Curbs, keeping the Club in the Prem for 8 consecutive seasons and, after that went tits-up, doing his damndest to repair the damage, including in 2010 taking on the burden solely of (and succeeding in) keeping the Club out of administration. Whatever one's views of RM's contribution to and/or blame for these two decades of huge ups and downs on the pitch, the fact is that every time you go to The Valley, you're sitting in the stadium that Murray and Curbs built and that is 100% owned by the Club. For that alone, bearing in mind the circumstances we were in when RM originally joined the CAFC Board, I shall always be immensely grateful.
I wonder how far RM would have got post 1997 without Peter Varney, admittedly his appointee, and whether he and some others now prefer to overlook that. I agree with you that RM remains in credit, but I suggest a more balanced overview of the positives from those close to events would help keep criticism in proportion too.
Completely agree with you AB and, in my haste and attempt at brevity, I stupidly overlooked his massive role. Peter absolutely should share any accolades.
Quite - so when you get RM attacking PV publicly (at Bromley last May) and privately, it's inevitable that some of us lose faith in his judgement. I'm not proposing Varney for sainthood either, but it seems to me that there is no moral defence for RM being part of a board that tried to sue PV on grounds that he must have known were laughable or, for that matter, being party to the treatment of Steve Kavanagh, who he appointed chief executive. He knows, as I do and I expect you do, what went on there and it stinks.
Prague, I get the feeling if we ended up in the blue square southern (or whatever it is) under his stewardship, you would still dismiss any criticism of the man citing circa 1991.......
Nobody denies that it ended in tears as a result of some very poor decisions by the Board (despite the best of intentions) but if 1991 isn't sufficient for the credit side of the ledger, how about: 1994 - raising funds from fans and bringing around 2,000 of them in (for over 15 years) as part owners of the Club that persuaded 3 of his fellow directors aswell as RM to convert their debt to equity in the Club and take the Club out of the bracket of financial basket-case. Thereafter - regularly issuing personal guarantees to enable the Club to obtain working capital from its bank. 1997 - floating CA PLC on AIM and raising significant capital from dumb City institutions that in the long term enabled the completion of the East Stand and in the short term financed the purchase of SuperClive, crucial to the glorious conclusion to the 1997-98 season. 1998-99 - astutely preserving the financial benefits of promotion to lay the foundations for the Championship winning side of 1999-2000. Along with Curbs, keeping the Club in the Prem for 8 consecutive seasons and, after that went tits-up, doing his damndest to repair the damage, including in 2010 taking on the burden solely of (and succeeding in) keeping the Club out of administration. Whatever one's views of RM's contribution to and/or blame for these two decades of huge ups and downs on the pitch, the fact is that every time you go to The Valley, you're sitting in the stadium that Murray and Curbs built and that is 100% owned by the Club. For that alone, bearing in mind the circumstances we were in when RM originally joined the CAFC Board, I shall always be immensely grateful.
I wonder how far RM would have got post 1997 without Peter Varney, admittedly his appointee, and whether he and some others now prefer to overlook that. I agree with you that RM remains in credit, but I suggest a more balanced overview of the positives from those close to events would help keep criticism in proportion too.
Completely agree with you AB and, in my haste and attempt at brevity, I stupidly overlooked his massive role. Peter absolutely should share any accolades.
Quite - so when you get RM attacking PV publicly (at Bromley last May) and privately, it's inevitable that some of us lose faith in his judgement. I'm not proposing Varney for sainthood either, but it seems to me that there is no moral defence for RM being part of a board that tried to sue PV on grounds that he must have known were laughable or, for that matter, being party to the treatment of Steve Kavanagh, who he appointed chief executive. He knows, as I do and I expect you do, what went on there and it stinks.
There was obviously a big falling out and I won't pretend to know what went on and most likely I will never know. Richard remains in credit with me for the reasons Peanuts gave, but the sackings stuck in my gullet, maybe there was nothing RM could have done, however my trust in him was dented. It's good to see RM looking so much healthier these days, he took a very heavy knock healthwise and that didn't escape my notice either.
But thats exactly the issue i raise in my first question
he was fully aware he gave the impression of ownership and therefore that it was his money. To the fan with no additional info on the Mysterons, thats a misrepresentation
I am very skeptical that 1M a month was transferred. I await with interest the financial accounts, from which it may be possible to deduce what actually came into the Club from shareholders
then again, the accounts may also not provide a complete picture
Didn't old slaphead Murray say something about how he would have a role linking with the fans, which is something he enjoyed, when two shats bought the club?? What the hell happened to that then Murray?? Gone the same way as not having to sell our young players cheap. Lies lies lies.
Comments
- I have never been quite sure what to think about the post Curbs years. It's a part of CAFC history i don't understand well. However when I was discussing it Christmas time with some ITK people, the name of Derek Chappell came up. Not a subject for this Forum, but if you look to hold people to account for our demise, his name would be in the frame
- Generally i think if you are going to appraise someone's performance you take their entire record into account. IN RM's case it goes back to 1991, and is titanic in CAFC history terms, as Peanuts describes. And titanic in terms of his financial contribution relative to his wealth too. Similarly anyone who wants to evaluate Chris Powell at this time absolutely has to take into account his entire managerial reign (but not his playing career).
People have different opinions of the 3 managerial position after Curbs and RM decision of hiring them and sacking them. I believe he made every decision with only the best interests of the club.
By Parkinson we were so in the doom playing wise and money wise. He took the cheap option, which a lot of clubs do in that position.
For those interested in hearing from Richard direct 7 May 2014, Bromley Conservative Club. Bromley Addicks members free. £5 to join.
He'll also be at the VIP meeting soon but that is for VIPs only.
ha ha ha
If he had it, would he have given it to us?
If he did give it to us, why did we need it to say solvent?
MS was full of it. Bandit liar
he was fully aware he gave the impression of ownership and therefore that it was his money. To the fan with no additional info on the Mysterons, thats a misrepresentation
I am very skeptical that 1M a month was transferred. I await with interest the financial accounts, from which it may be possible to deduce what actually came into the Club from shareholders
then again, the accounts may also not provide a complete picture