Who owns what after yesterday? And why we need to know

Airman Brown

I've put my initial thoughts about the takeover into a piece here.

Within that there is a big question about what the new owner has actually bought and whether it includes The Valley, because the club's statement doesn't tell us. It's easily answered, and hopefully it will be quickly and positively.

WSS

I don't really "get" the separation of the companies thing. Can someone outline in a few bullet points, before yesterday, who the entities associated with the club were and what they owned?

Obviously we don't know how that is structured today - at the moment.

BigAndyCAFC

Could we become a Pompey? Would be nice to know a few more details.

rambeau

I would be very surprised if it turned out that the sale did not include the ground. To buy the club in a deal that did not include the ground would probably be a terrible business decision.

Airman Brown

rambeau said:

I would be very surprised if it turned out that the sale did not include the ground. To buy the club in a deal that did not include the ground would probably be a terrible business decision.

I agree with you, which is why I have tried not to sensationalise the question. However the football company does not own the ground, so it needs to be clarified. If he"s bought 100 per cent of Baton then fair enough, but from recollection that's what they said had been sold in 2010 and this time they haven't.

Airman Brown

WSS said:

I don't really "get" the separation of the companies thing. Can someone outline in a few bullet points, before yesterday, who the entities associated with the club were and what they owned?

Obviously we don't know how that is structured today - at the moment.

BVI company (CAFC Holdings Limited) 90 per cent and Murray 10 per cent owned Baton 2010 Limited. Baton in turned owned Charlton Athletic Football Company Ltd - the club - and Charlton Athletic Holdings Limited - which owned the freehold of The Valley and the TG.

Charlton Athletic Holdings Limited is the one that matters here - and it is not the same as the confusingly similar CAFC Holdings Limited. The key question is whether he has bought Baton, and therefore both its subsidiaries.

WSS

Cheers

sam3110

Didn't the statement say that RD has bought a 100% stake of the club? I would imagine that would be everything to do with the club, and why Murray is now Non executive chairman, no money involved just on the board for some continuity

vff

The Voice of the Valley article is very good and raises important questions particularly about the status of the Valley. It will be interesting to see whether any answers are forthcoming over the next few months.

I would like to know whether the old directors loans were settled and whether Duchalet owns everything 100%. I would like to see RM / previous directors get some money back. It may also be helpful for any future sale that there are no outstanding debts or potentially increase in cost.

cafcfan

I would doubt that the new boy has actually acquired Baton. More likely that Baton has sold all its assets to Staprix and has become a shell company that will be wound down and liquidated once all its affairs are in order.

However, assuming Staprix has acquired the Valley and training ground, it would make no sense to keep those assets under the ownership of the club from the owner's point of view. Better to hive them off into a separate company that would retain those assets in the event that the club went into liquidation/administration at a later date.

Viewfinder

Thanks, Airman - you provide a typically lucid and level-headed summary of the current state of affairs, and pose several pertinent questions of fundamental importance. It's entirely healthy that our general welcome for the new owner is tempered with a dose of scepticism; meanwhile the observations from Belgian fans give us a fascinating insight into some of the methods employed by Duchatelet at his other clubs. I'm impressed by his speedy action to improve the pitch, and by his instant loan of Ajdarevic - assuming of course that Powell's knowledge of the player from their time together at Leicester indicates that our new owner has not foisted a player upon us against the will of the manager.

Eynsfordaddick

As ever, interesting stuff AB. A year seems a long time to wait to discover just what he has bought! Fingers crossed that Richard Murray was allowed a bigger enough say to influence matters.
Thanks.

Airman Brown

cafcfan said:

I would doubt that the new boy has actually acquired Baton. More likely that Baton has sold all its assets to Staprix and has become a shell company that will be wound down and liquidated once all its affairs are in order.

However, assuming Staprix has acquired the Valley and training ground, it would make no sense to keep those assets under the ownership of the club from the owner's point of view. Better to hive them off into a separate company that would retain those assets in the event that the club went into liquidation/administration at a later date.

Yes, I agree that there is and always good reason to hold the assets through a separate entity. The important thing is that they are in the same ownership and remain so. Otherwise that's where all the problems begin - as we should know.

SilentAddick

Excellent article, AB. Surely under the ACV the Trust should be notified if the ground is sold? This may be an alternative route to gather information via the Council if the powers aren't divulging this? Is this correct?

Airman Brown

SilentAddick said:

Excellent article, AB. Surely under the ACV the Trust should be notified if the ground is sold? This may be an alternative route to gather information via the Council if the powers aren't divulging this? Is this correct?

I don't think so, necessarily. If Baton still owns Charlton Athletic Holdings Limited then I think for ACV purposes nothing has happened, whether or not the ownership of Baton has changed.

However, we should be able to track changes in the directorship of all the UK companies fairly quickly, as they have to be registered.

In practice there is no reason the club won't disclose the situation, if it's straightforward. And it may well be, I'm just flagging up that we don't yet know for certain.

fatrob

Who owns the training ground now

Mundell Fleming

Very interesting article. I'm sure Staprix will either have acquired Baton or it's assets and hence now owns the Valley and the Training Ground. However, either way we should focus carefully on what happens next. As I understand it, STVV also used to own its own ground. Now they are a tenant paying a burdensome rent.

The good news, ironically, is that the Football Club (Charlton Athletic Football Company Limited) will be a major cash drain on Staprix and this will only be stemmed with success on the pitch and promotion to the Premier League. Even better, relegation to Division One is likely to increase losses, at least in the short term. No amount of clever financial engineering will change that reality. If Duchatalet knows what's he's doing he has to be focused on success on the pitch.

As an aside, I seem to recall that under the new FFP rules the 2013/14 accounts now have to be filed by December 1st this year, so we should find what happened to the former Directors' loans then, if not before.

charltonbob

sam3110 said:

Didn't the statement say that RD has bought a 100% stake of the club? I would imagine that would be everything to do with the club, and why Murray is now Non executive chairman, no money involved just on the board for some continuity

The statement actually said that RD has bought 100% of owner Tony Jiminez shares. This was a question I asked on the takeover thread, is it the club that has been bought or just TJs shares ?

seriously_red

ACV does not apply if you "leave the ground behind" in a transaction nor does it apply if the whole entity is sold.
The simplest and I believe most likely way to manage the transaction is to sell the holding company Baton to Staprix
Greenwich are not the quickest but they are obliged to inform the Trust if there is an intention to sell the Valley so much more likely that the companies change hands via the acquisition of Baton.

TelMc32

Good piece AB. Right questions and tone. I suspect however that RD has bought the whole shebang...as nothing else would make any business sense, as our "orange friend" found out at Selhurst.

Mundell - the December 1st deadline is for financials to be delivered to the League. I am not sure though whether this means full audited accounts or selected (by the League) management accounts, which confirm turnover/expenditure/profit(loss).

I don't know what resource they have put in place to review these accounts but as they will need to assess 72 clubs in 21 working days, I wouldn't be surprised if it is initially an overview, with detailed analysis of those breaching or borderline.

Mundell Fleming

TelMc32 said:

Mundell - the December 1st deadline is for financials to be delivered to the League. I am not sure though whether this means full audited accounts or selected (by the League) management accounts, which confirm turnover/expenditure/profit(loss).

I don't know what resource they have put in place to review these accounts but as they will need to assess 72 clubs in 21 working days, I wouldn't be surprised if it is initially an overview, with detailed analysis of those breaching or borderline.

Thanks TelMc32. That's helpful and makes sense. I guess we may well have to wait a little longer for the full audited account to be filed.

vff

charltonbob said:

sam3110 said:

Didn't the statement say that RD has bought a 100% stake of the club? I would imagine that would be everything to do with the club, and why Murray is now Non executive chairman, no money involved just on the board for some continuity

The statement actually said that RD has bought 100% of owner Tony Jiminez shares. This was a question I asked on the takeover thread, is it the club that has been bought or just TJs shares ?

I noticed the 100% of Tony Jimensz shares bought as well on the Reuters statement. Doesn't say 100% of Charlton.

micks1950

charltonbob said:

sam3110 said:

Didn't the statement say that RD has bought a 100% stake of the club? I would imagine that would be everything to do with the club, and why Murray is now Non executive chairman, no money involved just on the board for some continuity

The statement actually said that RD has bought 100% of owner Tony Jiminez shares. This was a question I asked on the takeover thread, is it the club that has been bought or just TJs shares ?

The club's statement said that "Staprix NV will acquire 100 per cent of the shares of the club":

http://www.cafc.co.uk/news/article/20140103-duchatelet-completes-charlton-takeover-1273149.aspx

It was a Reuters report that said that "Staprix NV, will acquire 100 percent of the shares of outgoing owner Tony Jimenez"

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/01/03/soccer-england-charlton-idINL3N0KD1YP20140103

Slartibartfast

So what percentage of the club did TJ own?

Mckforester

I think the C;ubs own statement is likely to be more accurate that reuters escpecially as TJ owned less than 50%.

seriously_red

Given that Baton 2010 the Charlton Athletic and the ground holding subsidiary are all registered in this country we shouldn't have to wait too long to find out. I've just looked on companies house and all three companies are due to file an annual return over the summer. I expect we can achieve clarity before then.

Athletico Charlton

SilentAddick said:

Excellent article, AB. Surely under the ACV the Trust should be notified if the ground is sold? This may be an alternative route to gather information via the Council if the powers aren't divulging this? Is this correct?

Except if the company, rather than the actual f/H title of The Valley is sold then I guess the ACV may not kick in? Easy way to get round it if so.

GlassHalfFull

My concern is that this whole enterprise appears to revolve around one man. He made an impressive start, on the first day promising urgent attention to the pitch and bringing in a loan player. That says he was well prepared, focused, and above all that he was confident the deal was going to be done. A confident, decisive operator - that's promising.

But how much depends on this one individual ? Anyone can suffer illness or accident. I realise it's pointless to ask about Plan B when we have little idea yet even of Plan A but now that we're involved with this one-man empire what is the chain of command ?

charltonbob

The club's statement said that "Staprix NV will acquire 100 per cent of the shares of the club":

http://www.cafc.co.uk/news/article/20140103-duchatelet-completes-charlton-takeover-1273149.aspx

It was a Reuters report that said that "Staprix NV, will acquire 100 percent of the shares of outgoing owner Tony Jimenez"

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/01/03/soccer-england-charlton-idINL3N0KD1YP20140103



Ok thanks Mick I had only read the one statement that somebody posted on the t/o thread

The Red Robin

This may be a stupid question AB but if RD hasn't bought Baton then does Baton still own The Valley and would that mean Tony Jimenez Kevin Cash owns The Valley and not Charlton and not RD?

Airman Brown

The Red Robin said:

This may be a stupid question AB but if RD hasn't bought Baton then does Baton still own The Valley and would that mean Tony Jimenez Kevin Cash owns The Valley and not Charlton and not RD?

If nothing else has happened, it would mean Baton (and therefore its other subsidiary which owns The Valley) is still owned by the BVI company and Murray 90/10, presumably. But this is all very hypothetical.