[cite]Posted By: adamtheaddick[/cite]Millwall for me.
Palace I don't hate them, I hate what noades and the others did to us but as a club and fans I have no issues apart from the train incident but they wernt palace fans or football fans. Have known a few nigels and to be fair there quite like is.
West ham, never had any beef with them also. My cousin who was a west ham season ticket holder would take me to upton park as a kid to watch us there and me brother in law is an iron too.
Did you sit with all the fat bald low class people?
Palace would be the team I hate the most as there is nothing redeemable about them. They're just so annoying and for a club that has an immediate catchment area that isn't perhaps the most desirable they have the mirror opposite in terms of fans. They're just a bunch of wannabe middle class snobs, this whole 'there is no rivalry' nonsense is born out of a sense that they believe they are superior to us. 'Meek' would definitely be a word to describe them, put it this way it was always the computer geeks at school who supported them.
I dislike Millwall for the reputation that some of their fans love to live off, but generally that sort of stuff is so embellished that they become a parody of themselves, and I think in a way they know it. Individually their fans can be alright but put more than 3 of them in a room/pub/train carriage etc and they're brain damage.
Ultimately i'm just happy being Charlton. Not as nigelly as Palace, not as scummy as Millwall, and not as 'East end nonsense' as West Ham, but somewhere in between. I see Charlton as a club with the complete spectrum but mainly people who don't take themselves too seriously and like to have a laugh. Ultimately football's about entertainment and pride in your local community / area and i'm happy with Charlton and my local area. I generally go with the same group of mates and family i've gone with for nearly 30 years and am equally happy to take my kids. I know plenty of decent Millwall fans who are too embarrassed to take there kids now because the place is full of either 50 year old blokes who spend the whole match watching the opposition fans and doing throat slashing gestures or spotty wannabe hooligan chavs who talk 'Jafaican' and pretend they have some sort of connection to Bermondsey. Give me the Valley any day.
[cite]Posted By: S_E_7[/cite]Harveys trainer - "Plus to a man they are fat, bald and lower class.
You dislike them because they are 'lower class'". What a prick.
No I dislike them because they are fat, bald and lower class. The sum of all three. Louts if you like which effectively means the same thing but is somehow more PC.
And by referring to me as a "prick" you are hardly covering yourself in glory.
I'd love to know where you sit at the valley where you are surrounded by by slim upperclass model types.
[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]Ultimately i'm just happy being Charlton. Not as nigelly as Palace, not as scummy as Millwall, and not as 'East end nonsense' as West Ham, but somewhere in between. I see Charlton as a club with the complete spectrum but mainly people who don't take themselves too seriously and like to have a laugh. Ultimately football's about entertainment and pride in your local community / area and i'm happy with Charlton and my local area. I generally go with the same group of mates and family i've gone with for nearly 30 years and am equally happy to take my kids. I know plenty of decent Millwall fans who are too embarrassed to take there kids now because the place is full of either 50 year old blokes who spend the whole match watching the opposition fans and doing throat slashing gestures or spotty wannabe hooligan chavs who talk 'Jafaican' and pretend they have some sort of connection to Bermondsey. Give me the Valley any day.
I'd suggest that most football supporters have no desire to be middle or upper class and therefore by disliking 'lower class' your alienating yourself from everything that football traditionally stands for. It is after all a working class sport and your statement comes across quite frankly as a bit 'Hyacynth Bouquet'. (excuse the spelling)
[cite]Posted By: sailor[/cite]I can't believe that an infantile post like this is still running. Well done those who said "I just like Charlton" you are the people who's comments I come here to read.
"Infantile" is a bit of a silly comment in my opinion. Football would be nothing without opponents and rivalries, its a massive part of the game; matches between rivals are what all football supporters look forward to - hence pretty much the highest attendances, and certainly the best atmospheres, at the Valley and the Den last year were for Charlton - Millwall. Football wouldn't be half the fun if it was simply about your team winning. My primary concern is obviously success for Charlton but realistically there is unlikely to ever be much of that, so having teams who I particularly look forward to beating and enjoy playing and potentially being No.1 in South London again is pretty much all I can realistically strive for, certainly at the minute! Every Saturday when we have lost over the last 20 odds years I have been watching Charlton would have been a lot worse if I hadn't invariably been able to console myself in the fact that we are still better off than Palace or Millwall, and consequently be able to take the p*ss out of mates / acquaintances of them lot.
I personally find it interesting to hear how and why certain people from different areas or who support Charlton for different reasons perceive our different local rivals; especially when there is such minimal overlap with Palace compared to Millwall in terms of where the fans come from. Criticising this thread as infantile is quite unfounded therefore. In addition, I think anybody who has been to the Den and witnessed hundreds of scumbag teenagers in bright pink polo shirts jumping and down and spending the whole time giving it large rather than actually watching the game, or anybody who has seen that video of the Sydenham train gig, has every right to intensely dislike both sets of scum....
and for the record... for me it is definitely Millwall, know more Millwall fans and I just can't stand them. More of a proper derby as well, more connections / overlap etc. Palace are a close second though, more distant but I f*cking hate them and their fans and their ground and everything about them...
Not that bothered about West Ham - really really hate Tottenham, think they'd probably be next.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]I'd suggest that most football supporters have no desire to be middle or upper class and therefore by disliking 'lower class' your alienating yourself from everything that football traditionally stands for. It is after all a working class sport and your statement comes across quite frankly as a bit 'Hyacynth Bouquet'. (excuse the spelling)[/quote]
Interesting point. I think it also relates to what people consider to be 'working class' these days.
Are you working class because you 'work'? Working class used to mean manual labours / blue collar workers - how many of us on here are that?
I suspect most of us are "white collar" workers - office workers professionals etc and therefore middle class (albeit lower middle class).
People also seem to think they are working class because their parents were / are. My parents were working class, but worked very hard to provide me with an education and I worked very hard to provide my children with one. My children are middle class and I am grateful that they are able to be.
I still find it weird that I could have said West Ham fans are scum and my post would have gone completely un-noticed.
[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]I'd suggest that most football supporters have no desire to be middle or upper class and therefore by disliking 'lower class' your alienating yourself from everything that football traditionally stands for. It is after all a working class sport and your statement comes across quite frankly as a bit 'Hyacynth Bouquet'. (excuse the spelling)
Interesting point. I think it also relates to what people consider to be 'working class' these days.
Are you working class because you 'work'? Working class used to mean manual labours / blue collar workers - how many of us on here are that?
I suspect most of us are "white collar" workers - office workers professionals etc and therefore middle class (albeit lower middle class).
People also seem to think they are working class because their parents were / are. My parents were working class, but worked very hard to provide me with an education and I worked very hard to provide my children with one. My children are middle class and I am grateful that they are able to be.
I still find it weird that I could have said West Ham fans are scum and my post would have gone completely un-noticed.
So where do you get the to a man they are fat and bald? You are talking shite and you know you are, I have a full head of hair and a 32 waist, i'm 44 years old and weigh 11 stone, Iam a driver for a living so guess im lower/working class so guees you got that bit right. You obviously dont do manual work so considder yourself a better person for that. Judging by your stupid comments that is clearly up for debate. You also had an 18 year old midfield player who was a west ham fan, cant remember him being that .
I think the point is that saying that you dislike someone because they are a hooligan or a chav could be considered reasonable, whereas disliking someone because of their class could not.
"Paulsturgess...my comment pertained mainly to the title of the thread...How can you hate individuals youve never met. I suspect that the majority of West Ham, Crystal Palace and Millwall fans have ordinary lives, wives, husbands, children and do no harm to others, hence the term "I hate" directed at any group in society is as I said Infantile."
Sailor - I think you are taking the use of the word hate a bit too literally there.... I say I f*cking hate Akpo Sodje every week because I don't think he's good enough for Charlton but its just colloquial isnt it. Regardless, I would say that you are not necessarily confirming a hatred of any specific individual (I have relatively close friends who are both Palace and Millwall fans - my brother was the best man for a palace fan a couple of months ago), you are merely confirming a hatred of the collective Millwall or Palace, and who or what they represent or believe in. Final point - without wanting to get involved in too much of a debate about the definition of the word "hate", I think it is possible to to "hate" individuals / groups when you have never technically met them - e.g. I have never technically met any of the following but they seem pretty worth of dislike to me: those chavs who attacked the charlton fans on the train down to Palace; all those Millwall scumbags whose reaction to scoring a goal is to turn to the away supporters and wave their arms at them; all those Millwall fans or are so mindnumbingly thick that they smashed up their own people's cars and property after losing in the play offs to Birmingham...
There are likeable and unlikeable people in all of the perceived social classes. In my experience, middle class kids want to be seen as working class and are horrified when they are picked out as public schoolboys or whatever. There seems to be an 'underclass' of scroungers but i wouldn't class them as working class. A lot of the things that make this country great (and not all of it is great) come from the traditions of the working class and a lot of things that are embarrassing and wrong (not all) about it come from the upper and middle classes. I'm proud to be working class and like to take people as i find them, regardless of their monetary status, political views etc etc. Your statement indicates that the people you dislike are from the lower classes and, however tongue in cheek, suggests that every West Ham fan looks like Buster Bloodvessel, which is obviously wrong.
"my comment pertained mainly to the title of the thread...How can you hate individuals youve never met. I suspect that the majority of West Ham, Crystal Palace and Millwall fans have ordinary lives, wives, husbands, children and do no harm to others, hence the term "I hate" directed at any group in society is as I said Infantile."
I think this is pertinent to my argument. I obviously know that West Ham fans aren't all fat bald and lower class. I'm fairly sure everyone else knows Milwall fans aren't all hooligans. I didn't think we were actually compiling a list of certifiable facts here.
I never claimed this was a rational hatred - read the posts, none of them are.
And personally I would much rather be "lower class" than a hooligan so how is that a bigger insult?
Am I snob? Probably Am I ashamed of this? Not really.
[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]There are likeable and unlikeable people in all of the perceived social classes. In my experience, middle class kids want to be seen as working class and are horrified when they are picked out as public schoolboys or whatever. There seems to be an 'underclass' of scroungers but i wouldn't class them as working class. A lot of the things that make this country great (and not all of it is great) come from the traditions of the working class and a lot of things that are embarrassing and wrong (not all) about it come from the upper and middle classes. I'm proud to be working class and like to take people as i find them, regardless of their monetary status, political views etc etc. Your statement indicates that the people you dislike are from the lower classes and, however tongue in cheek, suggests that every West Ham fan looks like Buster Bloodvessel, which is obviously wrong.
Agree with your point and I would like to point out that I never said they were "working class" I said they were lower class. I could in fact be a Lord for all the keyboard warriors know and therefore I could consider all West Ham fans to be middle class.
And yes, many many of the West Ham fans I have met (and certainly noticeably more so than any other fans) remind me of Buster Bloodvessel.
That said I live in Essex and have therefore met more West Ham fans than any other club, which I accept may have an impact.
Are you going to consider changing the name of this thread to "Who do you hate/dislike the most out of Palace/Millwall/West Ham/the proletariat/Jews/the Welsh/each other?"
For the record, I hate Brocolli. Followed closely by Palace. Equally pointless. West Ham don't figure on the grounds that no word could do justice to my intensely derogatory feelings for them.
I think some people are confusing class with social status.
If you are employed you are working class. However different occupations and unemployment have a perceived social status which is often described in class terms.
Here endeth today's sociology lesson!
EDIT: as regards the subject of the thread it is a tough one to answer. I hate the hooligan glorification of Millwall and remember the Selhurst saga. I used to be neutral as regards West Ham but listening to them whinge about Curbs on 606 annoyed me.
I think these days it has to be Palace although I would have answered Millwall years ago.
[cite]Posted By: paulsturgess[/cite]"Paulsturgess...my comment pertained mainly to the title of the thread...How can you hate individuals youve never met. I suspect that the majority of West Ham, Crystal Palace and Millwall fans have ordinary lives, wives, husbands, children and do no harm to others, hence the term "I hate" directed at any group in society is as I said Infantile."
Sailor - I think you are taking the use of the word hate a bit too literally there.... I say I f*cking hate Akpo Sodje every week because I don't think he's good enough for Charlton but its just colloquial isnt it. Regardless, I would say that you are not necessarily confirming a hatred of any specific individual (I have relatively close friends who are both Palace and Millwall fans - my brother was the best man for a palace fan a couple of months ago), you are merely confirming a hatred of the collective Millwall or Palace, and who or what they represent or believe in. Final point - without wanting to get involved in too much of a debate about the definition of the word "hate", I think it is possible to to "hate" individuals / groups when you have never technically met them - e.g. I have never technically met any of the following but they seem pretty worth of dislike to me: those chavs who attacked the charlton fans on the train down to Palace; all those Millwall scumbags whose reaction to scoring a goal is to turn to the away supporters and wave their arms at them; all those Millwall fans or are so mindnumbingly thick that they smashed up their own people's cars and property after losing in the play offs to Birmingham...
Anyway, I enjoy hating..
You HATE kids/teenagers/adults who turn round and give Charlton fans stick when their team just knocked their 4th goal in!!?
My god. Grow up you silly fucker. That's part & parcel of football, rub eachothers noses in it, banter, winding eachother up, obviously worked as you all tried walking out early.
HATE is a strong word. I reserve my hatred for a certain person who has done a very good friend of mine wrong. I wouldn't hate any Charlton fans who start doing wanker signs and shouting "easy, easy" next time you beat us, or hate Millwall wallies who bowl around thinking they're hard on the back of our name. How odd.
p*ss off millwall you prat. whats that got to do with growing up? I think you are confusing or choosing to confuse the normal human football supporter who like anybody else turns up at a football match and gives stick to opposing fans with the filthy t*ssers who turn up at Millwall and do not watch a single minute of the game and spend the entire ninety minutes watching the opposing fans and waiting for them to react to anything - a goal / a near miss / a corner / a throw in - before doing the wanker sign at them (which is also the way they celebrate scoring a goal), and constantly point to outside and sing "london bridge london bridge london bridge" cos theyre so big and hard and have come all the way from bexleyheath for a day out to beat the sh*t out of us there.
and for reference these comments stem more from the t*ssers who turned up and behaved as described above at meaningless pre season friendlies for alan mclearys testimonial a few years ago and another back in the 90s, rather than last seasons game.
and as per Sailor, I think you're getting a bit overexcited about the definition of the term hate - which is good to hear in one sense as it means that you are a rareity amongst Millwall fans in having a reasonable knowledge of the contents of the English dictionary, but also means you are taking things a bit too literally as, if you would care to read my previous post on this thread, you will note that my use of the term hate is colloquial (in the same way i "loved" mark kinsella - but im not going to kiss him am i), and that my original comments were made because I was put out by Sailor criticising the very nature of this thread, and that I was making the same comments as yourself that rubbing each others noses in it / rivalry etc are part and parcel of football.
millwall, closely followed by palarse. not fussed about west ham. totally love beating owls or blades though for growing up living with their 'who the hell are charlton' taunts.
[cite]Posted By: paulsturgess[/cite]p*ss off millwall you prat. whats that got to do with growing up? I think you are confusing or choosing to confuse the normal human football supporter who like anybody else turns up at a football match and gives stick to opposing fans with the filthy t*ssers who turn up at Millwall and do not watch a single minute of the game and spend the entire ninety minutes watching the opposing fans and waiting for them to react to anything - a goal / a near miss / a corner / a throw in - before doing the wanker sign at them (which is also the way they celebrate scoring a goal), and constantly point to outside and sing "london bridge london bridge london bridge" cos theyre so big and hard and have come all the way from bexleyheath for a day out to beat the sh*t out of us there.
and for reference these comments stem more from the t*ssers who turned up and behaved as described above at meaningless pre season friendlies for alan mclearys testimonial a few years ago and another back in the 90s, rather than last seasons game.
and as per Sailor, I think you're getting a bit overexcited about the definition of the term hate - which is good to hear in one sense as it means that you are a rareity amongst Millwall fans in having a reasonable knowledge of the contents of the English dictionary, but also means you are taking things a bit too literally as, if you would care to read my previous post on this thread, you will note that my use of the term hate is colloquial (in the same way i "loved" mark kinsella - but im not going to kiss him am i), and that my original comments were made because I was put out by Sailor criticising the very nature of this thread, and that I was making the same comments as yourself that rubbing each others noses in it / rivalry etc are part and parcel of football.
Cheers.
Interesting...if you know that these "filthy tossers" spend 90 minutes looking at the away fans and taunting them then I presume you also spend the entire 90 minutes watching what they do.
Perhaps you need to watch the game rather than watch little kids behave like little kids.
Comments
Did you sit with all the fat bald low class people?
I dislike Millwall for the reputation that some of their fans love to live off, but generally that sort of stuff is so embellished that they become a parody of themselves, and I think in a way they know it. Individually their fans can be alright but put more than 3 of them in a room/pub/train carriage etc and they're brain damage.
No problem at all with West Ham.
must be next to me then.
But call someone lower class and you are in for a battering.
Is this really one of the worst things would can possibly call someone?
"Infantile" is a bit of a silly comment in my opinion. Football would be nothing without opponents and rivalries, its a massive part of the game; matches between rivals are what all football supporters look forward to - hence pretty much the highest attendances, and certainly the best atmospheres, at the Valley and the Den last year were for Charlton - Millwall. Football wouldn't be half the fun if it was simply about your team winning. My primary concern is obviously success for Charlton but realistically there is unlikely to ever be much of that, so having teams who I particularly look forward to beating and enjoy playing and potentially being No.1 in South London again is pretty much all I can realistically strive for, certainly at the minute! Every Saturday when we have lost over the last 20 odds years I have been watching Charlton would have been a lot worse if I hadn't invariably been able to console myself in the fact that we are still better off than Palace or Millwall, and consequently be able to take the p*ss out of mates / acquaintances of them lot.
I personally find it interesting to hear how and why certain people from different areas or who support Charlton for different reasons perceive our different local rivals; especially when there is such minimal overlap with Palace compared to Millwall in terms of where the fans come from. Criticising this thread as infantile is quite unfounded therefore. In addition, I think anybody who has been to the Den and witnessed hundreds of scumbag teenagers in bright pink polo shirts jumping and down and spending the whole time giving it large rather than actually watching the game, or anybody who has seen that video of the Sydenham train gig, has every right to intensely dislike both sets of scum....
Not that bothered about West Ham - really really hate Tottenham, think they'd probably be next.
Interesting point. I think it also relates to what people consider to be 'working class' these days.
Are you working class because you 'work'? Working class used to mean manual labours / blue collar workers - how many of us on here are that?
I suspect most of us are "white collar" workers - office workers professionals etc and therefore middle class (albeit lower middle class).
People also seem to think they are working class because their parents were / are. My parents were working class, but worked very hard to provide me with an education and I worked very hard to provide my children with one. My children are middle class and I am grateful that they are able to be.
I still find it weird that I could have said West Ham fans are scum and my post would have gone completely un-noticed.
So where do you get the to a man they are fat and bald? You are talking shite and you know you are, I have a full head of hair and a 32 waist, i'm 44 years old and weigh 11 stone, Iam a driver for a living so guess im lower/working class so guees you got that bit right. You obviously dont do manual work so considder yourself a better person for that. Judging by your stupid comments that is clearly up for debate. You also had an 18 year old midfield player who was a west ham fan, cant remember him being that .
Sailor - I think you are taking the use of the word hate a bit too literally there.... I say I f*cking hate Akpo Sodje every week because I don't think he's good enough for Charlton but its just colloquial isnt it. Regardless, I would say that you are not necessarily confirming a hatred of any specific individual (I have relatively close friends who are both Palace and Millwall fans - my brother was the best man for a palace fan a couple of months ago), you are merely confirming a hatred of the collective Millwall or Palace, and who or what they represent or believe in. Final point - without wanting to get involved in too much of a debate about the definition of the word "hate", I think it is possible to to "hate" individuals / groups when you have never technically met them - e.g. I have never technically met any of the following but they seem pretty worth of dislike to me: those chavs who attacked the charlton fans on the train down to Palace; all those Millwall scumbags whose reaction to scoring a goal is to turn to the away supporters and wave their arms at them; all those Millwall fans or are so mindnumbingly thick that they smashed up their own people's cars and property after losing in the play offs to Birmingham...
Anyway, I enjoy hating..
I think this is pertinent to my argument. I obviously know that West Ham fans aren't all fat bald and lower class. I'm fairly sure everyone else knows Milwall fans aren't all hooligans. I didn't think we were actually compiling a list of certifiable facts here.
I never claimed this was a rational hatred - read the posts, none of them are.
And personally I would much rather be "lower class" than a hooligan so how is that a bigger insult?
Am I snob? Probably Am I ashamed of this? Not really.
Agree with your point and I would like to point out that I never said they were "working class" I said they were lower class. I could in fact be a Lord for all the keyboard warriors know and therefore I could consider all West Ham fans to be middle class.
And yes, many many of the West Ham fans I have met (and certainly noticeably more so than any other fans) remind me of Buster Bloodvessel.
That said I live in Essex and have therefore met more West Ham fans than any other club, which I accept may have an impact.
For the record, I hate Brocolli. Followed closely by Palace. Equally pointless. West Ham don't figure on the grounds that no word could do justice to my intensely derogatory feelings for them.
If you are employed you are working class. However different occupations and unemployment have a perceived social status which is often described in class terms.
Here endeth today's sociology lesson!
EDIT: as regards the subject of the thread it is a tough one to answer. I hate the hooligan glorification of Millwall and remember the Selhurst saga. I used to be neutral as regards West Ham but listening to them whinge about Curbs on 606 annoyed me.
I think these days it has to be Palace although I would have answered Millwall years ago.
You HATE kids/teenagers/adults who turn round and give Charlton fans stick when their team just knocked their 4th goal in!!?
My god. Grow up you silly fucker. That's part & parcel of football, rub eachothers noses in it, banter, winding eachother up, obviously worked as you all tried walking out early.
HATE is a strong word. I reserve my hatred for a certain person who has done a very good friend of mine wrong. I wouldn't hate any Charlton fans who start doing wanker signs and shouting "easy, easy" next time you beat us, or hate Millwall wallies who bowl around thinking they're hard on the back of our name. How odd.
and for reference these comments stem more from the t*ssers who turned up and behaved as described above at meaningless pre season friendlies for alan mclearys testimonial a few years ago and another back in the 90s, rather than last seasons game.
and as per Sailor, I think you're getting a bit overexcited about the definition of the term hate - which is good to hear in one sense as it means that you are a rareity amongst Millwall fans in having a reasonable knowledge of the contents of the English dictionary, but also means you are taking things a bit too literally as, if you would care to read my previous post on this thread, you will note that my use of the term hate is colloquial (in the same way i "loved" mark kinsella - but im not going to kiss him am i), and that my original comments were made because I was put out by Sailor criticising the very nature of this thread, and that I was making the same comments as yourself that rubbing each others noses in it / rivalry etc are part and parcel of football.
Cheers.
Interesting...if you know that these "filthy tossers" spend 90 minutes looking at the away fans and taunting them then I presume you also spend the entire 90 minutes watching what they do.
Perhaps you need to watch the game rather than watch little kids behave like little kids.
"Cheers"