Does the club own land on the Peninsula ?

AFKABartram

Or has it been claiming to own land on the peninsula ?

Or is this just another example of a big.clouded carve up between the top club people and the top council people ?

Or has Charles Sale just got it completely wrong ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2522174/No-mercy-Arsenal-coach-Mark-Arber-Mesut-Ozil-betting-scandal--Charles-Sale.html

Absurdistan

Discussed ad infinitum here

http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/57971/takeover-rumours-some-news-is-err-news#latest

BIG_ROB

We probably own a bit of the mud on the foreshore. I use to catch some lovely eels down there though. I'll dig out a couple photos if you like, the old Greenwich Yacht Club was the best spot, where the Greenwich tent now stands.

Stu_of_Kunming

As we don't know who owns the club, it's hard to say what else our owners might own.

rikofold

A sale approach using the Peninsula as bait will fall down as soon as DD reveals we won't be owning the stadium. That's not to say there's no commercial potential in the Valley, but might alter the buyer's views on price.

se9addick

When we say "the club" do we mean that land on the peninsula is an asset of the clubs or do we mean do the majority shareholders who own the controlling stake in the club also own land on the peninsula ?

I'd say "no" to the first and "maybe, who knows" to the second.

AFKABartram

I'm guessing the latter, as the former barely own any players !

Addickted

Three to one on Cash has some interest in land on the Peninsula.

What property speculator doesn't have a large landbank at the moment?

Redskin

Great. Another thread about something nobody knows anything about and will amount to nothing.

Edit:apart from Henry,obviously ...

Henry Irving

No.

RB Greenwich has outline plans which include a stadium of some sort.

The land on the peninsula is leased by a development company unconnected to Charlton Athletic.

This issue was exposed in the leaked sales document produced by Slater and Jimenez in May 2013 where they suggested that there were clear plans for a development (among other misleading info).

TJ and MS were using this as a incentive for buyers when in reality they were promising something they didn't control and couldn't deliver.

The upshot of which is that when potential buyers go through DD they spot this untruth, and who knows what others, and either walk away or offer a lower price.

But TJ is in a bind. He, or at least the people he's borrowed from, have put in a lot of money and he needs that back to pay off the people he's borrowed from. And Cash wants his money back too.

And then there are the people in line behind Denis Wise for a similar "refund" of their Les Bordes investment. Some people who are well known names in North East football for example. So TJ needs to sell to pay off these people but TJ also needs a certain amount of money to do that. But no one else values the Club at what TJ needs.

So there is a gap and that big gap is where our problem lies. No one seems to want to buy us at an unrealistic price and if they did you'd have to either question their sanity or fear that they might be as dodgy if not more than the current lot.

Meanwhile, the team has no investment made in it and is in a relegation fight. While I still think that we can stay up there is a real danger that we won't especially if we have many more injuries or suspensions. See the Mortimer at Bromley thread for his views on that.

The Red Robin

Why does this need yet another thread?

J BLOCK

Very well said Henry

grumpyaddick

Henry Irving said:

No.

RB Greenwich has outline plans which include a stadium of some sort.

The land on the peninsula is leased by a development company unconnected to Charlton Athletic.

This issue was exposed in the leaked sales document produced by Slater and Jimenez in May 2013 where they suggested that there were clear plans for a development (among other misleading info).

TJ and MS were using this as a incentive for buyers when in reality they were promising something they didn't control and couldn't deliver.

The upshot of which is that when potential buyers go through DD they spot this untruth, and who knows what others, and either walk away or offer a lower price.

But TJ is in a bind. He, or at least the people he's borrowed from, have put in a lot of money and he needs that back to pay off the people he's borrowed from. And Cash wants his money back too.

And then there are the people in line behind Denis Wise for a similar "refund" of their Les Bordes investment. Some people who are well known names in North East football for example. So TJ needs to sell to pay off these people but TJ also needs a certain amount of money to do that. But no one else values the Club at what TJ needs.

So there is a gap and that big gap is where our problem lies. No one seems to want to buy us at an unrealistic price and if they did you'd have to either question their sanity or fear that they might be as dodgy if not more than the current lot.

Meanwhile, the team has no investment made in it and is in a relegation fight. While I still think that we can stay up there is a real danger that we won't especially if we have many more injuries or suspensions. See the Mortimer at Bromley thread for his views on that.

This has the ominous ring of truth about it.

TJ massively financially exposed, completely out of his depth and with a massive credibility issue .

But could he really be so stupid as to try and pull off some dodgy deal with a serious international sports corporation?

Did he not realise that the Americans would have a few bus loads of lawyers and accountants just to check the small print?

Will he go down with the ship or head for the lifeboats?

Red_Pete_in_Dubai

Nice summary Henry. I suspect that you have hit the nail on the head.

falconwood_1

As a cynic, it looks alledgely like a green light indication, of some strength, may have been given by the council to our owners and them taking it to any extent they felt necessary to sell.

Mundell Fleming

Henry Irving said:

No.

RB Greenwich has outline plans which include a stadium of some sort.

The land on the peninsula is leased by a development company unconnected to Charlton Athletic.

This issue was exposed in the leaked sales document produced by Slater and Jimenez in May 2013 where they suggested that there were clear plans for a development (among other misleading info).

TJ and MS were using this as a incentive for buyers when in reality they were promising something they didn't control and couldn't deliver.

The upshot of which is that when potential buyers go through DD they spot this untruth, and who knows what others, and either walk away or offer a lower price.

But TJ is in a bind. He, or at least the people he's borrowed from, have put in a lot of money and he needs that back to pay off the people he's borrowed from. And Cash wants his money back too.

And then there are the people in line behind Denis Wise for a similar "refund" of their Les Bordes investment. Some people who are well known names in North East football for example. So TJ needs to sell to pay off these people but TJ also needs a certain amount of money to do that. But no one else values the Club at what TJ needs.

So there is a gap and that big gap is where our problem lies. No one seems to want to buy us at an unrealistic price and if they did you'd have to either question their sanity or fear that they might be as dodgy if not more than the current lot.

Meanwhile, the team has no investment made in it and is in a relegation fight. While I still think that we can stay up there is a real danger that we won't especially if we have many more injuries or suspensions. See the Mortimer at Bromley thread for his views on that.

This sounds right and may well be right, but if true its still very puzzling because it implies a great deal of wishful thinking on the part of the owners. TJ must still believe in the tooth fairy if for one moment he thinks that a very experienced Private Equity operator won't spot an important and blatant lie in a "sales document" or that a knight in shiny white armour will suddenly appear from nowhere and pay over the odds for the Club. Meanwhile, whilst he waits for a miracle the hole he's apparently in gets bigger and bigger.

It doesn't really make sense, but if it's as you've explained it, perhaps TJ knows he's done for and is simply pretending to be trying to sell the Club for an unachievable price whilst he finds his way to a cave in Afghanistan. We're done for if this it's what's going on.

seth plum

Is Lansdowne mews on the peninsula? Oops no, sorry, my mistake.

LargeAddick

Henry's post seems very plausible indeed.

It's possible Mr Cash owes some of the land in question but that doesn't belong to the Club.

Things seem to be unravelling quite spectacularly for TJ.

itsmyball

why do we not make our feelings known about the board at the games , every other club who have had issues with the board seem to.
I just feel TJ and MS were sold on the promise of something that could not be delivered. and it just shows a certain mr TJ is not as good a sales person as the last person who helped sell the club , you would have to ask yourself if you was KK what were the lawyers up to who did his DD.
I just think the club needs to be brought by someone who can invest all the money into the club and not paying off the historical running costs of the club that have been converted into loans.
in my opinion the only way I see a way out of this for the club is admin. I know its a word that's not spoken about but I can tell you if we did enter admin there would be many many interested parties wanting to buy Charlton.

razil

If there was an interest in the Pen that was that easy to make a killing on our present owners would have done so in my view, with the connections they have why not.

I think its more likely that the Board feel they can get a better price for the club still than the Americans were willing to offer after completing DD, or possibly even before hand.

Just my view

PragueAddick

Henry
Have you had sight of the sales document? (I haven't). I went back to the Voice to see what Kleinman wrote, and it wasn't much:

The document again raises the spectre of a new stadium on the GreenwichPeninsula, which would “include residential properties alongside [it] and converting the existing stadium into affordable social housing”. While pointing out that “there are no finalised or agreed upon plans for this development and... it should not be considered as definite”, it begs a number of questions.

Unless the sales document is more explicit than is written above, we only have this one sentence wrist-job from the Mail as 'evidence' that the owners are claiming to own land on the Pen...

I'm still sceptical of that Mail report for now..

Karim_myBagheri

Mundell Fleming said:

Henry Irving said:

No.

RB Greenwich has outline plans which include a stadium of some sort.

The land on the peninsula is leased by a development company unconnected to Charlton Athletic.

This issue was exposed in the leaked sales document produced by Slater and Jimenez in May 2013 where they suggested that there were clear plans for a development (among other misleading info).

TJ and MS were using this as a incentive for buyers when in reality they were promising something they didn't control and couldn't deliver.

The upshot of which is that when potential buyers go through DD they spot this untruth, and who knows what others, and either walk away or offer a lower price.

But TJ is in a bind. He, or at least the people he's borrowed from, have put in a lot of money and he needs that back to pay off the people he's borrowed from. And Cash wants his money back too.

And then there are the people in line behind Denis Wise for a similar "refund" of their Les Bordes investment. Some people who are well known names in North East football for example. So TJ needs to sell to pay off these people but TJ also needs a certain amount of money to do that. But no one else values the Club at what TJ needs.

So there is a gap and that big gap is where our problem lies. No one seems to want to buy us at an unrealistic price and if they did you'd have to either question their sanity or fear that they might be as dodgy if not more than the current lot.

Meanwhile, the team has no investment made in it and is in a relegation fight. While I still think that we can stay up there is a real danger that we won't especially if we have many more injuries or suspensions. See the Mortimer at Bromley thread for his views on that.

This sounds right and may well be right, but if true its still very puzzling because it implies a great deal of wishful thinking on the part of the owners. TJ must still believe in the tooth fairy if for one moment he thinks that a very experienced Private Equity operator won't spot an important and blatant lie in a "sales document" or that a knight in shiny white armour will suddenly appear from nowhere and pay over the odds for the Club. Meanwhile, whilst he waits for a miracle the hole he's apparently in gets bigger and bigger.

It doesn't really make sense, but if it's as you've explained it, perhaps TJ knows he's done for and is simply pretending to be trying to sell the Club for an unachievable price whilst he finds his way to a cave in Afghanistan. We're done for if this it's what's going on.

you might call it wishful thinking. I think it's f@cking stupid. and downright disrespectful to any interested party that is about to give you some money. I would pull out straight away if I was josh harris.

Can't believe how amateur these people are who run our club.

rikofold

Mundell Fleming said:

Henry Irving said:

No.

RB Greenwich has outline plans which include a stadium of some sort.

The land on the peninsula is leased by a development company unconnected to Charlton Athletic.

This issue was exposed in the leaked sales document produced by Slater and Jimenez in May 2013 where they suggested that there were clear plans for a development (among other misleading info).

TJ and MS were using this as a incentive for buyers when in reality they were promising something they didn't control and couldn't deliver.

The upshot of which is that when potential buyers go through DD they spot this untruth, and who knows what others, and either walk away or offer a lower price.

But TJ is in a bind. He, or at least the people he's borrowed from, have put in a lot of money and he needs that back to pay off the people he's borrowed from. And Cash wants his money back too.

And then there are the people in line behind Denis Wise for a similar "refund" of their Les Bordes investment. Some people who are well known names in North East football for example. So TJ needs to sell to pay off these people but TJ also needs a certain amount of money to do that. But no one else values the Club at what TJ needs.

So there is a gap and that big gap is where our problem lies. No one seems to want to buy us at an unrealistic price and if they did you'd have to either question their sanity or fear that they might be as dodgy if not more than the current lot.

Meanwhile, the team has no investment made in it and is in a relegation fight. While I still think that we can stay up there is a real danger that we won't especially if we have many more injuries or suspensions. See the Mortimer at Bromley thread for his views on that.

This sounds right and may well be right, but if true its still very puzzling because it implies a great deal of wishful thinking on the part of the owners. TJ must still believe in the tooth fairy if for one moment he thinks that a very experienced Private Equity operator won't spot an important and blatant lie in a "sales document" or that a knight in shiny white armour will suddenly appear from nowhere and pay over the odds for the Club. Meanwhile, whilst he waits for a miracle the hole he's apparently in gets bigger and bigger.

It doesn't really make sense, but if it's as you've explained it, perhaps TJ knows he's done for and is simply pretending to be trying to sell the Club for an unachievable price whilst he finds his way to a cave in Afghanistan. We're done for if this it's what's going on.

Is it possible that TJ might have believed it himself when he bought the club?

seth plum

I understand that business people are always seeking 'mug punters', and it may be that some Charlton suitors were regarded as exploitable mugs, isn't that the world of business and finance?
Years ago the manager of the Nissan dealers in Plaistow Lane told me there were two kinds of customers 'floppers' and 'ruckers', and the floppers outnumber the ruckers 20 to 1.
It may well be that Josh was seen as a flopper, but turns out to be a rucker, and also better than our salespeople at brinkmanship.
I can't help feeling we are involved in the cock-up theory of History here.

Karim_myBagheri

seth plum said:

I understand that business people are always seeking 'mug punters', and it may be that some Charlton suitors were regarded as exploitable mugs, isn't that the world of business and finance?
Years ago the manager of the Nissan dealers in Plaistow Lane told me there were two kinds of customers 'floppers' and 'ruckers', and the floppers outnumber the ruckers 20 to 1.
It may well be that Josh was seen as a flopper, but turns out to be a rucker, and also better than our salespeople at brinkmanship.
I can't help feeling we are involved in the cock-up theory of History here.

I'm not in business and finance but if lies and deceptions are common practice then they're is a lot of dumb people in charge of a lot of money.

which doesn't surprise me.

Starinnaddick

Surely if the Charles Sale story is untrue about Peninsula land ownership claims , TJ & MS would come out and publicly refute it.

Bedsaddick

Starinnaddick said:

Surely if the Charles Sale story is untrue about Peninsula land ownership claims , TJ & MS would come out and publicly refute it.

When has TJ ever come out and said anything publicly ?

stilladdicted

Development Securities Ltd are in partnership with Cathedral Group and own some of the land at Morden Wharf but the majority of the land is leased. A Mr Graham Prothero used to work at DSLtd but I am unable to establish if he is related to P/T Prothero. Everything then dissolves into a brew of numerous other people and companies, it all gets quite incestuous. I can see that it would take a long time to establish the facts.

Starinnaddick

They could hide behind a club statement. If the allegation is untrue I would have thought they would want to deny it as it puts them in a very bad light .
No response will speak volumes.

PL54

If you Google
Kevin Cash Greenwich
there are some interesting articles about people called Kevin who have been robbed, or been robbing, in Greenwich.

Off_it

Morgen College own a big chunk of the land on the peninsula.

They're not a college and they're not in Morden.

Make of that what you will.