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What is wrong with British Football?

On the eve of the World cup draw…….

What is wrong with English football?

Kids are identified as future stars or written off too early

Winning is given too much importance at too young an age

Skills and technique are not given enough importance

Youth coaches use mismatches in size/physicality that occur in kids to their advantage

Kids play on pitches that are too big for them too often

A level 1 coach is just somebody who has turned up and paid a fee - not enough good coaches in the mix

There is no incentive for Premier League teams to develop English talent

Many coaches shout at the kids during matches and don't allow them to develop their football brains

We (English) invented the game so are not open to new ideas

The sad thing is, we have the raw talent. I feel sorry for those kids with talent who are going to be let down, simply because they are British!
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Comments

  • 'Many coaches shout at the kids during matches and don't allow them to develop their football brains'

    Add parents to that one as well. Some of the ones I've seen on the touchlines moaning at kids, the ref and other dads are pretty alarming.
  • edited December 2013
    Yes, good point - it isn't an exhaustive list - please add to it. This is what FA commission should be doing rather than work out what their ethnic mix should be! Make and agree a list then sort it out. I'm getting fed up of the whole thing.
  • Add parents to that one as well. Some of the ones I've seen on the touchlines moaning at kids, the ref and other dads are pretty alarming.

    I wondered when the refs would get the blame...add spectators, many of whom don't understand the Laws of the Game
  • I don't think that refs were being blamed here - that is on another thread!
  • Is this about British football or English football?
  • edited December 2013
    Both I think - I am more confident about what is wrong with English football but Scotland certainly doesn't produce the talent it once did.
  • Is this an example of what might be wrong?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25214450

    Putting winning ahead of player development even at such a young age?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25214450
  • Is this an example of what might be wrong?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25214450

    Putting winning ahead of player development even at such a young age?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25214450

    what an absolute prick. Of course children want to win, thats naturally there, you don't have to reinforce it.
  • edited December 2013
    Why do countries that are better at winning than us not put a great importance on their U10s winning? The problem is IMO, is that this coach was at least being honest. Lots of coaches won't say it, but are exactly the same. They think they are Brian Cloughs rather than custodians of our future talent pool! Great he was sacked by the way - now for the other thousands!!!!!!
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  • Many of the above apply but I think in the UK (not just England) club loyalties vastly outweigh national team loyalties in a way that I haven't seen as much in any other country that I've visited. The only time we tend to care about the implications of the things our clubs do on the national team is when England are playing (or, more accurately, losing). The same blokes that will be faux devastated when England crash out of the World Cup will be the same blokes who support Arsenal/Chelsea etc and will be egging them on to sign the next big thing from abroad at the expense of English talent in their ludicrously assembled development squads.
  • se9addick said:

    Many of the above apply but I think in the UK (not just England) club loyalties vastly outweigh national team loyalties in a way that I haven't seen as much in any other country that I've visited. The only time we tend to care about the implications of the things our clubs do on the national team is when England are playing (or, more accurately, losing). The same blokes that will be faux devastated when England crash out of the World Cup will be the same blokes who support Arsenal/Chelsea etc and will be egging them on to sign the next big thing from abroad at the expense of English talent in their ludicrously assembled development squads.

    You obviously haven't been to Spain then - where until recently Barca fans have never given a shit about the national team, and Real fans have always seen it as playing second fiddle to the General's XI.
  • It's the mentality, pure and simple.

    Foreign coaches teach technique, how to control the ball and retain possession, far too much of coaching in England at a junior-level is done by unqualified people who coach 'effective football' - that is playing long balls to a big striker - rather than playing properly.

    A mate of mine here played semi-pro and said his junior coach in Sydney was a Serbian guy who absolutely insisted that the juniors, even from Under-6's, played the ball from the back and tried to keep the ball at all times.

    As a result the club's youngest teams would often get battered by teams who would catch them in possession close to their goal and score - but as the lads got older and reached their teens they were by far the best players in the district and were brilliant at playing possession football.

    Its really about mindset, we teach our youngsters how to win matches - not how to play football and there is a big difference.
  • edited December 2013

    It's the mentality, pure and simple.

    Foreign coaches teach technique, how to control the ball and retain possession, far too much of coaching in England at a junior-level is done by unqualified people who coach 'effective football' - that is playing long balls to a big striker - rather than playing properly.

    A mate of mine here played semi-pro and said his junior coach in Sydney was a Serbian guy who absolutely insisted that the juniors, even from Under-6's, played the ball from the back and tried to keep the ball at all times.

    As a result the club's youngest teams would often get battered by teams who would catch them in possession close to their goal and score - but as the lads got older and reached their teens they were by far the best players in the district and were brilliant at playing possession football.

    Its really about mindset, we teach our youngsters how to win matches - not how to play football and there is a big difference.

    You have hit the nail on the head -but I posted this post partly to gauge how passionate people are generally about this. I think they are not that bothered. So maybe that is the big reason why there isn't much hope for change to happen. It needs to be demanded.

    Football, like anything else is run by people who are comfortable - they get good money/have good jobs and they talk but they only act in a token way. Dyke came out with his statement about the World cup and set up the commission, when really he needed to find a visionary (the right horse) and back him. For me that man is Glenn Hoddle. It should be down to him who he appoints, what he does - Dyke's role should have been to give him complete power over grassroots football and a big budget.

    Feathers would have been ruffled- Dinosaurs kicked out - it would have been a revolution - but that is what is needed.

    If we had somebody who would really shake things up -instead of Dyke - we might start getting somewhere. But the system will never let that happen.
  • I partly wonder these days if its because the desire isnt there anymore... There werent as many cars years ago so you could have a kick about in the streets now if we want to play Football we put FIFA on the Xbox or Playstation.

    Many countries where the best players are coming from dont have these luxuries so have to get outside if they want to play.

    @Ormiston also has it spot on... We need to teach young kids how to play Football and not win at any cost from a really young age and we need to stop thinking the next Generation will be it and then slating them because they're not.

    Whenever you go to England games some fans will only back those playing for their National side... i.e. I remember one time we played Kazakhstan, Ashley Cole did a poor pass and some bloke along from me shouted that he was shit... When I turned round and asked how he got to that conclusion it was because he had been simply greedy leaving Arsenal for Chelsea.

    After Andres Iniesta scored the winning goal at the last World Cup I heard he always got a round of applause from the opposition fans (even Real Madrid) when his name was read out because he won the World Cup for SPAIN and not Barcelona.

    Could never see that happening here as there isnt an all round togetherness
  • edited December 2013
    But they have playstations in Germany and Spain. It is a good point that you need a lot of boys playing the game as the more you have, the more you produce.

    Our youth game inhibits the type of player we need. Becuase winning is everything, boys are encouraged not to try certain things - but you need to try things and be willing to and have an environment where you can make mistakes to improve.

    Hard work, fitness, comittment are the biggest factors for a lot of our youth coaches. Skill and vision comes some way behind.
  • Have a look on wiki how many coaches there are in spain and other parts of Europe compared to England who are qualified .
    Junior football is changing . The u7 now play 5 aside for two years then they go to 7 aside for two years then 9 aside for two years before going to 11 aside .
    Also now at 7 aside the oppositions players have to be in there own half when a goal kick is being taken . This way it enables the kids to play from the back without having the fear of loosing the ball straight away .
    If you also look at football across Europe that tend to play 7 aside up to u11 on 9 aside pitches so they have lots and lots of space and time when they are on the ball .
    I'm only a junior coach of an u11 team I have no badges . But here is your problem I have played football all my life and know how it should be played . Most of the guys as it has been said who have a level 1 think they are coaches as they have past a exam that your man could and they all coach the same . All I'd say is read read and read more and more books that are written by Dutch Spanish or German coaches and English football would produce a lot more talent .
  • edited December 2013
    Yes, I have seen it with my boy - most level 1 coaches are sunday/pub league and have little knowledge. If you pay the money, you could get a chimp through level 1. They can't see simple things - I can see faults in a good players game for instance but they don't notice them until a year or two later when they wonder why that player isn't so effective anymore. But they do it for nothing and love. How do you kick them out? Who do you replace them with?
  • Not enough time spent on learning technique. Smaller pitches required and try and take the fear of losing away. The kids from an early age should be allowed to express themselves. Have a look at how Germany trains its youngsters and use it as a blueprint.
    With the amount of youngsters playing football in this country and the new FA facility there is no excuse. We should be in the top ten of footballing countries, but at the moment we can't even be seeded for the World Cup.
  • edited December 2013
    Yes, i am passionate about proportionate pitches - but the dinosaurs don't like them. My son (12) has played on full sized pitches as many times as the right size this season - actually probably more. Dyke is useless - he talks the talk but what are the FA doing about this - they think they have sorted this issue already - I'd like to have 10 minutes with the prat!

    Hoddle is our saviour if he gets the power. That sounds a bit religeous which is a bit unfortunate in relation to Glenn, but he really does have the answers. He can play a similar role to that which Klinsman did with Germany.
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  • Ive got a couple of sons playing youth football,one has just left a "Pro Youth" set up which if done properly should have been good,but head coach clueless giving out jobs for the boys,one of which was out of his depth in our works team (whose best achievement was a 1-1 draw with the bottom club in a 5 division regional county set up!) The head was accused of wasting huge numbers of talented young players.
    The youngest is 7 and again the set up has been well thought out,the coaches have played a reasonable standard but when in training they are trying to move on before the lads have got the hang of the skills they are being taught,so it moves on and then crumbles like the house built on sand. As hanging on to the ball seems to have turned in to rocket science I was watching the drills they were doing,coaches boy could do it none of the others could but they weren't shown! Ive coached kids rugby and cricket and you have to get the basics sorted before you move on. The coaches though do see it as a win at all costs as a good run ended and they stormed off leaving some little lads a bit scared.
    As you say though its a who is is going to sack them and who is going to do it as they put a lot of time and effort in to it.For me the coaching has to get to the basics and they need to be right and maybe instead of Under -whatever age, organize it to a size/weight basis to stop the long ball to the giant who is maturing faster than his mates tactic by clueless coaches who fancy them selves as a Premier League manager who want to hold court in the pub blowing about their kids team that hasn't been beaten for half a season.
  • Its a series of little problems but I think there are 2 big problems,

    1- When you see grass roots grounds in this country compared to Italy's (ive recently been there) the difference is huge. On ours the pitches are bobbly and the kids are forced to play the long ball game because its too difficult to pass it and control it. Italy's are - well not quite immaculate but something close to it and they allow the kids to pass the ball on the ground.

    2 - There are few clubs like charlton and southampton that are willing to give academy players more than one opportunity to prove their worth, they often assume that players who have expierience and are older will be better. Southampton are a good example that this is not the case. A player will generally be loyal if they feel their club has been loyal to them, and they will want to do well for it.
  • I take my stepson to the soccerdome at north Greenwich on Saturday morning's. Have to say that the coaching of 6 and 7 yr olds is first rate. All about control, skill, awareness of where you are and how to outwit your opponent! Much better than when I was trained as a kid. Only the name of the place is a problem for me!
  • British football is in great shape - the professional game is a different thing. In Portugal there is no football outside pro or semi pro level at any age group, so you don't get the opportunity to play competitive football unless you are a half decent player. In Britain thousands and thousands of people play in parks and meadows week in week out just for the joy of it.
  • British football is in great shape - the professional game is a different thing. In Portugal there is no football outside pro or semi pro level at any age group, so you don't get the opportunity to play competitive football unless you are a half decent player. In Britain thousands and thousands of people play in parks and meadows week in week out just for the joy of it.

    They do pretty well with a population smaller than greater London, though.
  • If you are a football coach of a club's age group team you should definitely be level 2 at least, I agree that there are so many numpties that blag through level 1 and then say "SEE I'm a qualified football coach i know what i'm on about, now hoof the ball up the pitch". Some kids are bigger and stronger than others, but when you get to 15+ those smaller kids can start going to the gym and beef themselves up. That's why it's so important to focus on the very basics of the game and keeping the ball in that time.

    Still can't believe adults are shouting at children at their football games. Shut up and support your child and his mates by cheering when they score and a "unlucky, keep your heads up" when they concede. People still seem to think being supportive is being "passionate" and getting angry at everything and anything.
  • British football is in great shape - the professional game is a different thing. In Portugal there is no football outside pro or semi pro level at any age group, so you don't get the opportunity to play competitive football unless you are a half decent player. In Britain thousands and thousands of people play in parks and meadows week in week out just for the joy of it.

    They do pretty well with a population smaller than greater London, though.
    They do on a professional level, but football as a game is about more than that, that was the only point I was making Arthur.

  • Sorry but what exactly is British (or English) football?

    The major clubs are foreign owned, the majority of EPL players are from oversees and there are even fewer top managers from England.

    We are all falling over ourselves to welcome a potential foreign buyer for CAFC so we might get two seasons in the limelight and move to some plastic Kentucky Fried stadium in the middle of a Greenwich Council planning department's wet dream . Do you think the board of a serious US sports corporation will care how many Charlton players are English or how well the England team does at a world cup as long as their franchise are in the EPL and collecting international TV revenue?

    Its a global corrupt business, there very little left of so called English football and it seems, the more successful you are, the less there is.
  • In terms of participation at grass-roots, we probably are one of the greatest countries in the world.

    It's just the talent development that's lacking. Academies need to pick up gifted players earlier and scout better in local leagues, instead of having the kid taught by a dad that won't have the knowledge of getting the best out of the player.

  • Sorry but what exactly is British (or English) football?

    The major clubs are foreign owned, the majority of EPL players are from oversees and there are even fewer top managers from England.

    We are all falling over ourselves to welcome a potential foreign buyer for CAFC so we might get two seasons in the limelight and move to some plastic Kentucky Fried stadium in the middle of a Greenwich Council planning department's wet dream . Do you think the board of a serious US sports corporation will care how many Charlton players are English or how well the England team does at a world cup as long as their franchise are in the EPL and collecting international TV revenue?

    Its a global corrupt business, there very little left of so called English football and it seems, the more successful you are, the less there is.

    You should pop down to Kidderminster Harriers Grumpy.
    That would cheer you up.
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