PA, I can only draw upon the CAFC accounts which show wages roughly equal to turnover for both 10/11 and 11/12, and approx £2.2m in (gross) additions to intangible assets ie. fees paid for transfers. Regardless of what was going on at Huddersfield, I don't think we went up on a shoestring, whilst our big sale (Jenkinson) was a fringe player whilst theirs was core (Pilkington).
(Some caveats include the fact that Powell only joined in Jan 2011, but I think only Benson was signed for a fee in the half-year prior.)
PA, I can only draw upon the CAFC accounts which show wages roughly equal to turnover for both 10/11 and 11/12, and approx £2.2m in (gross) additions to intangible assets ie. fees paid for transfers. Regardless of what was going on at Huddersfield, I don't think we went up on a shoestring, whilst our big sale (Jenkinson) was a fringe player whilst theirs was core (Pilkington).
(Some caveats include the fact that Powell only joined in Jan 2011, but I think only Benson was signed for a fee in the half-year prior.)
If you choose to judge Chris Powell in terms of the financial accounts, you need benchmarks. If you don't accept Huddersfield, how about Sheffield United? I don't have the info, but am willing to bet you that both the overall wage bill, and Danny Wilson's salary was way higher.
Or give us another Div 1 club where you can show the manager did more with less. Sheffield Wednesday? Doubt it, they offered Semedo more than we thought he was worth.
It's fine to pore over our accounts but unless you pore over the accounts of similar clubs, I don't think the conclusions you draw are substantiated.
We can't score goals and we can't keep clean sheets. No money so we're trying to get by with a squad of players out of contract, any cheap loans/out of contract players we can afford and a few youngsters (who would be out on loan if we had money to bring in more players). Up front Fuller and Haynes picked up injuries, but they caused problems at this level. We have no alternative to Yann, we don't create enough chances, but even when we do, the other strikers don't take them.
Powell has made mistakes but the way things are the best we could hope for is surviving a relegation battle. Thankfully there are a few other clubs in a similar position and the league doesn't look like it'll be as tight as last season.
The squad needed improving last season but we did enough to get by. A good end to the season papered over the cracks.
Not sure where we go from here. Far bigger problems at the club than Powell picking the wrong formation, or not putting a sub on early enough.
With this squad and the situation (finances, contracts, owners looking to sell etc) we won't win many games whichever line-up and formation Powell or a new manager goes for.
Yes your spot on with your comment about the bigger problems at the club. However, the manager whoever he is has to set up the team correctly and with a sense of organisation and I'm not sure that I have seen much evidence of it from our gaffer this term.
1. Sacked Parky when most didn't like him 2. Took a gamble and appointed Powell as manager 3. Found funds to acquire BWP, who turned out to be deadly 4. Gave Powell the budget to rebuild the squad 5. We get promoted with 101 points with that squad 6. We enter the Championship with largely the same squad (a squad that Powell said was built with the Championship in mind) and, with a few ups and downs, finish 9th. 7. Haven't ever claimed to be able to pump hundreds of millions into the club, no mention of Kevin Cash (rumour and hearsay ALONE has his name in the frame) 8. Have sacked many backroom and office staff with a long history with us 9. Haven't communicated with the fans enough since taking over 10. Don't have the club at heart and are looking to sell at a massively inflated price
I understand the people who are anti Chris Powell. they are Charlton fans, and like all of us they are hurting at the moment. Blaming Chris Powell is their outlet and they are not morons for doing so. I fundamentally disagree with them, but they care about Charlton as much as anybody else. My personal worry is that the voices of enough anti Chris Powell people will give these absent owners a platform for action, and then we really will be finished.
Always remember that the darkest hour is just before the dawn... but I'm afraid it is probably going to get a tad darker first!
If they were looking to make money from buying Charlton they took a big gamble and now they are in a cleft stick. As with most gamblers there comes a time when you are losing and you have to risk even more money to try and get a result. The sane advice is to know when to cut your losses. Charlton does not run itself even at this level of performance. You can't compete in this league unless someone is pumping in money that almost certainly will have to be written off.
Those on here who call that "investment" and call for other people to pump in cash regardless are ridiculous. Get real.
As to CP, the brand of football isn't great. But I say get behind him unless you can realistically suggest a better alternative, taking account of a) his passion for our club, b) his achievements so far, c) the cost of replacement and the owners' willingness to fund it and d) who the he'll could come in and do a better job in the circumstances.
In this league you have to expect to struggle unless someone with a bottom-less pit of cash is willing to spunk away tens of millions. If you have got that sort of money then step forward and I am sure the red carpet will be rolled out. If you haven't don't expect someone else to bankroll your hobby.
The Premier League and the upwards re-distribution of wealth in football are mainly to blame for the current situation because if we employ only playing staff that we can afford we will most probably be swiftly relegated.
1. Sacked Parky when most didn't like him 2. Took a gamble and appointed Powell as manager 3. Found funds to acquire BWP, who turned out to be deadly 4. Gave Powell the budget to rebuild the squad 5. We get promoted with 101 points with that squad 6. We enter the Championship with largely the same squad (a squad that Powell said was built with the Championship in mind) and, with a few ups and downs, finish 9th. 7. Haven't ever claimed to be able to pump hundreds of millions into the club, no mention of Kevin Cash (rumour and hearsay ALONE has his name in the frame) 8. Have sacked many backroom and office staff with a long history with us 9. Haven't communicated with the fans enough since taking over 10. Don't have the club at heart and are looking to sell at a massively inflated price
As far as I see it they are in credit right now
Gotta say that I mostly agree with this, but I think the reason that some are getting the hump with the board is because they won't sell at the right price. The reason that others (the majority) are getting the hump with the board is because they are sheep...
To those who are sticking behind Powell let me ask you this - Was Lennie Lawrence or Curbs and Gritty lucky why we did so well in the league table when things were tough behind the scenes?
Different time in football then though. When Curbs and Gritt were running things at this level, they had something (not a lot but something) to work with finance wise. Now we have a wage budget of about £4.50 (Powell found the extra 19p down the back of his sofa). Finances have always been important in football, but now more than ever!
To those who are sticking behind Powell let me ask you this - Was Lennie Lawrence or Curbs and Gritty lucky why we did so well in the league table when things were tough behind the scenes?
Different time in football then though. When Curbs and Gritt were running things at this level, they had something (not a lot but something) to work with finance wise. Now we have a wage budget of about £4.50 (Powell found the extra 19p down the back of his sofa). Finances have always been important in football, but now more than ever!
91/92 season. Small squad, cheap signings, free transfers and loans. Like last season it can be done, but not on a regular basis.
We seem to have absentee landlords who are letting the roof leak, and are content to instruct a handyman to move a couple of tiles from place to place to try to keep the place sort of dry. If they were actually living in the property they might take it more seriously, but we're the tenants paying top rent anyway because there is nowhere else to live.
What I don't get is if the players are all supposed to be right behind Powell why are they not busting a gut for him, or are they fed of hearing him asking to buy more players and not believing that they are good enough. Or If the players are unhappy with their contract situation they can't be doing their careers any good playing shit, why not play their bollocks off and if they are not offered a contract come May another team will. Play like cocks get relegated and half of them will be lucky to get picked up by teams next season leaving them in a worse position then now.
Like I said on a previous post out of the 16 odd players that are on 1 year contracts how many do we really want to renew, Solly is done and at the min there is only 3 or 4 that actually deserve a new contract and the rest have to prove they are still good enough.
Obviously there is problems behind the scenes with regards to bringing in new investors, but the players and managers should just get on with their own jobs and that's to play football and try and win games.
Was going to post something similar to this, as the players seems to be being forgotten in the 'who is most at fault' debate.
There's an article on the BBC website about contracts which quotes PFA figures - apparently the average Championship salary is £4,000 to £5,000 a week, and the top earners get between £8,000 to £9,000.
Even working on the basis that we are not one of the big payers, some in our squad will no doubt be doing OK - and especially those who either signed a contract extension after promotion or were recruited that summer onwards.
They may not have the security of a contract from the end of the season, but on the other hand they will be free agents and - if playing well - be in a strong position to be picked up by another Championship team with no transfer fee involved etc.
Had they all been offered a deal in the summer, would they have all signed anyway (unless offered better terms) - or would some have waited to see if a good start to the season would have strengthened their hands?
And if we had improved the squad, there would now be talk of discontent at falling down the pecking order and not getting near the team.
If they were looking to make money from buying Charlton they took a big gamble and now they are in a cleft stick. As with most gamblers there comes a time when you are losing and you have to risk even more money to try and get a result. The sane advice is to know when to cut your losses. Charlton does not run itself even at this level of performance. You can't compete in this league unless someone is pumping in money that almost certainly will have to be written off.
Those on here who call that "investment" and call for other people to pump in cash regardless are ridiculous. Get real.
As to CP, the brand of football isn't great. But I say get behind him unless you can realistically suggest a better alternative, taking account of a) his passion for our club, b) his achievements so far, c) the cost of replacement and the owners' willingness to fund it and d) who the he'll could come in and do a better job in the circumstances.
In this league you have to expect to struggle unless someone with a bottom-less pit of cash is willing to spunk away tens of millions. If you have got that sort of money then step forward and I am sure the red carpet will be rolled out. If you haven't don't expect someone else to bankroll your hobby.
The Premier League and the upwards re-distribution of wealth in football are mainly to blame for the current situation because if we employ only playing staff that we can afford we will most probably be swiftly relegated.
There's an article on the BBC website about contracts which quotes PFA figures - apparently the average Championship salary is £4,000 to £5,000 a week, and the top earners get between £8,000 to £9,000.
Very interesting. I'll try to find it, but if you have it handy, would you mind posting the link? Ta.
I'm sure the Trust team would be interested too, if they haven't already seen it.
Except that's not quite true! More in depth later but CAFC are running the average loss of £6-7M per season... some clubs are running more and some less... some have bigger revenues and some have less. Calling it an "investment" only works if you have enough to keep going. As the Trust have consistently argued this is more like a roulette table... you put your £6M stake down and you take your chances (as Watford and Palace did at Wembley) of winning £120M over five years. And if you want to increase your chances of getting into the top 6 then you have to increase your stake.
There is an implicit assumption by the board right now that they can reduce their stake AND stay in the game but securing less than a point per game runs the risk of relegation and losing £4M tv revenue per season... oh and an additional £2M next season...And the drop off in ticket revenue...and the best players walking off to other clubs because CAFC can't afford them.
I seem to be an idiot a tit and a moron on this thread, plus all this talk about CP being asked to take over derby lol, their fan base would be chuffed with that. A team that have not kept a clean sheet all season with one win, I suppose you think man utd have been sounding him out about taking over from moyes too?
Get a grip, he is only the messiah in your eyes, but to some he is a very naughty boy.
We can't score goals and we can't keep clean sheets. No money so we're trying to get by with a squad of players out of contract, any cheap loans/out of contract players we can afford and a few youngsters (who would be out on loan if we had money to bring in more players). Up front Fuller and Haynes picked up injuries, but they caused problems at this level. We have no alternative to Yann, we don't create enough chances, but even when we do, the other strikers don't take them.
I notice that both seem to be pretty injury free now they've left us. Fuller has started all 6 games for Blackpool since joining and Haynes has already started 6 games for Notts county this season, when he only managed 15 starts for us in a season and a half.
We can't score goals and we can't keep clean sheets. No money so we're trying to get by with a squad of players out of contract, any cheap loans/out of contract players we can afford and a few youngsters (who would be out on loan if we had money to bring in more players). Up front Fuller and Haynes picked up injuries, but they caused problems at this level. We have no alternative to Yann, we don't create enough chances, but even when we do, the other strikers don't take them.
Blackpool yesterday, cant say I witnessed the same skill or technical ability on the ball when he played for Charlton
1. Sacked Parky when most didn't like him 2. Took a gamble and appointed Powell as manager 3. Found funds to acquire BWP, who turned out to be deadly 4. Gave Powell the budget to rebuild the squad 5. We get promoted with 101 points with that squad 6. We enter the Championship with largely the same squad (a squad that Powell said was built with the Championship in mind) and, with a few ups and downs, finish 9th. 7. Haven't ever claimed to be able to pump hundreds of millions into the club, no mention of Kevin Cash (rumour and hearsay ALONE has his name in the frame) 8. Have sacked many backroom and office staff with a long history with us 9. Haven't communicated with the fans enough since taking over 10. Don't have the club at heart and are looking to sell at a massively inflated price
As far as I see it they are in credit right now
It depends what the question is. If the question was who is to blame for why we are not top of the league having won every game then yes the board are to blame because they are not rich enough. Not really their fault.
Who his to blame for the contract situation? Perhaps the board but perhaps sky and everyone else is responsible for unmanageable player wages.
Who is to blame for Dale Stephens? That's Chris Powell, or perhaps the board for not selling him when they had the chance.
The problem with that list is that the weight of importance for each point is vastly different.
Also the big myth about their investing in the squad to get us promoted. On transfer fees received for Jenkinson and getting rid of the high earners allowed Powell to build a squad to get promoted. The team are half decent for this level and Powell was hardly going to claim they weren't good enough when we went up. Bit like saying "yeah cheers lads you'll get us promoted but that's it. Even a crap manager (Pardew) wouldn't be that stupid. He knew new players would be needed. They came in with big talk and have been conspicuous in their silence since they realised that championship football isn't profitable! Who do I blame? Them mainly, some of the players for not stepping up, at times Powell for being naive at times, but also us fans should take some. Amount of times I've heard morons abusing players for 1 missed pass, some clown was swearing and cursing Stephens after about 2 mins at Watford. At times the atmosphere from the terraces can be unbelievably poor in the attitudes, booing at 1 down at half time.
Different tactis that every fan on here asked for...
I didn't ask for different tactics- I thought the 3-5-2 would have suited Saturday's game and said as much last week. It doesn't suit a team setting up defensively against us but Burnley were never going to do that. And I suspect it will be the best way to go against Forest - it was certainly not right for Millwall though!
I have a horrible feeling that because of his investments in Spanish property and the main backer of the club pulling out that Jimenez may well be between a rock and a hard place at present and he may well not be in a position to dictate much about the club or its selling price - he has been around in football long enough to know that things will get any better by starving a Championship club of cash and investment, What we really need is a group of local business men to come forward with a suitably measly offer and my guess is that they may get their hands bitten off (it seems to have worked pretty well at Palarse) - come on Richard Murray we know you can do it.
In the meantime another Cardiff like performance is demanded from the fans tomorrow night to demonstrate that the club has rather more to offer than the likes of Jimenez and Slater.
Comments
(Some caveats include the fact that Powell only joined in Jan 2011, but I think only Benson was signed for a fee in the half-year prior.)
Or give us another Div 1 club where you can show the manager did more with less. Sheffield Wednesday? Doubt it, they offered Semedo more than we thought he was worth.
It's fine to pore over our accounts but unless you pore over the accounts of similar clubs, I don't think the conclusions you draw are substantiated.
1. Sacked Parky when most didn't like him
2. Took a gamble and appointed Powell as manager
3. Found funds to acquire BWP, who turned out to be deadly
4. Gave Powell the budget to rebuild the squad
5. We get promoted with 101 points with that squad
6. We enter the Championship with largely the same squad (a squad that Powell said was built with the Championship in mind) and, with a few ups and downs, finish 9th.
7. Haven't ever claimed to be able to pump hundreds of millions into the club, no mention of Kevin Cash (rumour and hearsay ALONE has his name in the frame)
8. Have sacked many backroom and office staff with a long history with us
9. Haven't communicated with the fans enough since taking over
10. Don't have the club at heart and are looking to sell at a massively inflated price
As far as I see it they are in credit right now
Those on here who call that "investment" and call for other people to pump in cash regardless are ridiculous. Get real.
As to CP, the brand of football isn't great. But I say get behind him unless you can realistically suggest a better alternative, taking account of a) his passion for our club, b) his achievements so far, c) the cost of replacement and the owners' willingness to fund it and d) who the he'll could come in and do a better job in the circumstances.
In this league you have to expect to struggle unless someone with a bottom-less pit of cash is willing to spunk away tens of millions. If you have got that sort of money then step forward and I am sure the red carpet will be rolled out. If you haven't don't expect someone else to bankroll your hobby.
The Premier League and the upwards re-distribution of wealth in football are mainly to blame for the current situation because if we employ only playing staff that we can afford we will most probably be swiftly relegated.
If they were actually living in the property they might take it more seriously, but we're the tenants paying top rent anyway because there is nowhere else to live.
There's an article on the BBC website about contracts which quotes PFA figures - apparently the average Championship salary is £4,000 to £5,000 a week, and the top earners get between £8,000 to £9,000.
Even working on the basis that we are not one of the big payers, some in our squad will no doubt be doing OK - and especially those who either signed a contract extension after promotion or were recruited that summer onwards.
They may not have the security of a contract from the end of the season, but on the other hand they will be free agents and - if playing well - be in a strong position to be picked up by another Championship team with no transfer fee involved etc.
Had they all been offered a deal in the summer, would they have all signed anyway (unless offered better terms) - or would some have waited to see if a good start to the season would have strengthened their hands?
And if we had improved the squad, there would now be talk of discontent at falling down the pecking order and not getting near the team.
There's an article on the BBC website about contracts which quotes PFA figures - apparently the average Championship salary is £4,000 to £5,000 a week, and the top earners get between £8,000 to £9,000.
Very interesting. I'll try to find it, but if you have it handy, would you mind posting the link? Ta.
I'm sure the Trust team would be interested too, if they haven't already seen it.
There is an implicit assumption by the board right now that they can reduce their stake AND stay in the game but securing less than a point per game runs the risk of relegation and losing £4M tv revenue per season... oh and an additional £2M next season...And the drop off in ticket revenue...and the best players walking off to other clubs because CAFC can't afford them.
Get a grip, he is only the messiah in your eyes, but to some he is a very naughty boy.
It's very interesting. With some bizarre snippets re what are in some player contracts
I notice that both seem to be pretty injury free now they've left us. Fuller has started all 6 games for Blackpool since joining and Haynes has already started 6 games for Notts county this season, when he only managed 15 starts for us in a season and a half.
Who his to blame for the contract situation? Perhaps the board but perhaps sky and everyone else is responsible for unmanageable player wages.
Who is to blame for Dale Stephens? That's Chris Powell, or perhaps the board for not selling him when they had the chance.
Personally, I didn't believe either of them.
In the meantime another Cardiff like performance is demanded from the fans tomorrow night to demonstrate that the club has rather more to offer than the likes of Jimenez and Slater.