I think people saying "the players have contracts so should give 100% regardless" are missing the point.
Yes, they should give their all every game but they are human so they don't.
It's not just a question of having a contract or not either. If a player has been told he'll get a contract extension and the squad will be strenghten and neither happens they get disallussioned.
They will hear the rumours and gossip and true or not they will see the signs of neglect and decline that stilladdickted mentioned.
You could add that said players may have been offered better/longer contracts elsewhere and we are currently unwilling to let them speak to other parties.
If it was three or four players out of contract with no idea of where they will be next year then that could be managed.
However, we are talking about 95% of the squad and the management team. And these are the people who have performed superbly for the last few years.
Whether it 'should' affect them is not the point. The fact that it is so widespread is the most important factor and will have an effect on performance.
For anything to improve the club either has to be sold for a realistic price, or one of us win Euromillions. The cutbacks tell their own story about our day to day finances. The alternative is, yes, the football staff want job security, but if the club goes belly up then they can't be afforded anyway. We will be in a new stark situation where survival comes before success., and we will have to balance the books. I can't see how when the whistle blows the players are conscious of their own job position, they will lose themselves in the game as footballers. There may be a subconscious bad vibe inside, but they certainly won't be meaning to play poorly or make mistakes. I think Prague gets it, in as much as there is a creeping eroding effect around the place, not one specific but a concinnity of factors all coming together. So, who is likely to add a bit of positivity? As supporters we could, Andy Hughes could up his game as the team spirit wizard, collectively we could forget our own worries and nurture the younger players into the team, make that our project. The open and honest Chris Powell could hide any misgivings in training and elsewhere and make the experience as positive as possible. As others have said the players could try harder to rekindle the team spirit of last season, and everybody could try to look after everybody else to create a more upbeat feeling. Something can be done, it may be not much, but better than wallowing in the misery. It may not even be enough, but what else is there? On the playing and managing there is everything to gain by always giving 100%, as we always try to do as supporters.
For anything to improve the club either has to be sold for a realistic price, or one of us win Euromillions. The cutbacks tell their own story about our day to day finances. The alternative is, yes, the football staff want job security, but if the club goes belly up then they can't be afforded anyway. We will be in a new stark situation where survival comes before success., and we will have to balance the books. I can't see how when the whistle blows the players are conscious of their own job position, they will lose themselves in the game as footballers. There may be a subconscious bad vibe inside, but they certainly won't be meaning to play poorly or make mistakes. I think Prague gets it in as much as there is a creeping eroding effect around the place, not one specific but a concinnity of factors all coming together. So, who is likely to add a bit of positivity? As supporters we could, Andy Hughes could up his game as the team spirit wizard, collectively we could forget our own worries and nurture the younger players into the team, make that our project. The open and honest Chris Powell could hide any misgivings in training and elsewhere and make the experience as positive as possible. As others have said the players could try harder to rekindle the team spirit of last season, and everybody could try to look after everybody else to create a more upbeat feeling. Something can be done, it may be not much, but better than wallowing in the misery. It may not even be enough, but what else is there? On the playing and managing there is everything to gain by always giving 100%, as we always try to do as supporters.
Seth Plum's post is spot on.
There is always a way to respond in the best manner in difficult circumstances.
If the players are allowing themselves to be upset by events in the background they need to remember that they (the majority of them) are playing in the highest division they have ever been in thanks to their own efforts in our promotion from League 1. What other championship clubs are going to be picking them up if/when they leave Charlton?
A lot of them are lucky to be playing at this level - do you think they've forgotten that?
I think people saying "the players have contracts so should give 100% regardless" are missing the point.
Yes, they should give their all every game but they are human so they don't.
It's not just a question of having a contract or not either. If a player has been told he'll get a contract extension and the squad will be strenghten and neither happens they get disallussioned.
They will hear the rumours and gossip and true or not they will see the signs of neglect and decline that stilladdickted mentioned.
Do we not also run the risk that given their lack of long term security the players will be even more worried about going in for challenges as an injury could scupper the chance of a contract next year?
Whose to say their wages weren't late last month. And the month before?
To my knowledge the wages have always been paid on time - although there has been much nail biting at senior levels within the club as to whether they would be.
Hopefully we will beat Leicester on Saturday and we can start talking about what away games we will be going to in the Prem when we win the league this season..
Some of you need to work on a bit of balance rather than fanatically following the past couple of weeks of football all the bloody time.
But what's changed from last year Nicholas? Same players, same coaches, same manager and we finished 9th.
Yes we finished 9th and that was an excellent achievement but this is (was last season) a tight division and we were in the relegation mix until we fortuitously hit a run of form in the last few games which elevated us.
It all has the feel of a winding down operation. Staleness and neglect, indifference to problems, lack of repairs, no ideas and no investment. I feel scared for us and that's new. I'm just hoping it's me being hopelessly wrong.
The club are just jumping on the bandwagon and changing to zero hours contracts.
In all Honesty with how thing are going i can see us getting relegated to league one again. And i think this is what will cause TJ & MS to sell. Prob wait untill april then reduce the asking price. Someone will probably come in and give us some stability
But then we will have to probably go on free signings and will end up a average league one club for a 3/4 seasons before building enough to challenge. Sad but i do think we are now a club that could well hop between these two leagues.
It's a long season and anything can happen, if I didn't believe that then I would have given up on Charlton years ago.
I've been to every league so far this season , as I'm sure many on here have, have seen enough seasons of Charlton to know they never do what you think they are going to do.
After the B Mouth game my son was quite disheartened and I said to him that it could be 5 or 6 games before we get our first league win.
It's early days and players who were a shoe in 7 plus performance last season are not at that level at the moment.
I still hope and believe that we will get better, although it would help if we could start by scoring the first goal it might give the players a bit of belief and the crowd something to cheer about.
By the way I know people might complain about the attendance being low , but I thought those that were there made a right old racket, keep it going guys and gals, our support is crucial.
Its not even like we could say, dont worry PV and RM will ride to our rescue now either!
I am not normally a person that worries too much, but at this present moment i can honestly say i am very worried about our club and the lack of direction right now. If the board was to say " yes we have no money, we are trying to sell etc " at least we would know what was going on, but we dont!
But what's changed from last year Nicholas? Same players, same coaches, same manager and we finished 9th.
No Ricardo Fuller, no Danny Haynes - JJ injured, Club's financial uncertainty has cast a dark shadow over a great feel good factor end last season. Positives: Jordan Cousins - a real find
People do realise that players like Wiggins aren't machines right? They aren't going to be consistently good for 46 games of a season.
The trouble is though Gary when your better players aren't at their best you would still expect them to put in an average shift and rate a 6. What's happening so far is that most of our better players are scoring 4's and 5's, even our POY, Solly.
We're still determined to obey the three L's and to smile. All we as supporters can reasonably do is to sign the Trust petition and get the Valley listed as a community asset (vital IMO), to keep asking the questions and to cheer our lads on, even if they don't always deserve it! I'm hanging onto the dream................... and I still love Chrissy and Alex. ( Sorry Jean, I know I'm a tart ;-))
I can only base a view on two (or at least one and a half) home performances and match reports from Barnsley and Bournemouth and this looks like a different team to last season. Something very significant must have occurred off the field over the summer to de-stabilise the team to this extent. It's as though they know something that we (the fans) don't.
I have only seen Chris Solly play poorly twice in my entire life and those were the games against Boro and Donny. I find it hard to believe that this could be because his contract expires in June 2014 or that he has decided he has no enthusiasm for playing for CAFC. It's also interesting that the two players least affected (so far) seem to be Church and Cousins - neither of whom were part of the first team set up last season.
The wheels have come off the bus somewhere along the road and it is obvious in the body language of the players.
I think people saying "the players have contracts so should give 100% regardless" are missing the point.
Yes, they should give their all every game but they are human so they don't.
It's not just a question of having a contract or not either. If a player has been told he'll get a contract extension and the squad will be strenghtened and neither happens they get disallussioned.
They will hear the rumours and gossip and true or not they will see the signs of neglect and decline that stilladdickted mentioned.
When you don't have the best players or the biggest budget then you need team spirit, fight, committment more than ever but these are just the sort of qualities that are lost when your faith in the club you play for are constantly being knocked by broken promises and lack of investement.
The mantra over the summer for many was that off the field/boardrrom matters were of no concern as "it's what happens on the pitch that matters".
That was always a falacy as what happens in the boardroom impacts directly and indirectly on to the pitch and we are now seeing the fruits of there being no plan, short or long, beyond selling the Club.
What is sickening is that having finished 9th we were a fairly attractive purchase. TJ and MS knew this hence the leaked prospectus being produced in May.
The summer was the time to sell because if we started badly, as we have, the Club becomes less and less attractive. The buyers were there but the price was too high and the assets over-egged leading to buyers walking away.
Now we just have to hope that TJ and MS see sense and that buyers can still be found.
I think they will but I worry about how much pain we will have to go through until that happens.
Still, no one ever said following Charlton would be a bed of roses.
Back the team
Get behind Chris Powell
Join the Trust
Live. Love. Laugh and Be Happy.
This
And just to add...
The irony of this poor start is that it might do one of two things...
1) Force some investment in the squad to improve both the weakest parts and the overall performance / freshen things up
2) Bring the price of the club down to something that converts into a sale.
Relegation is just not an option as tv money goes down by £3M+ and CAFC loses the additional £2M (?) coming through next season. I won't comment on individual players as I don't know enough about the game and it just doesn't seem right - what I will say is that the board is not stupid and are in for £20M of loans between Richard Murray and the new owners.
And hold on because, as stated more than once, this season is going to be bumpy, very bumpy!
Worried too. The contract situation is dire and I don't sense the same togetherness or spirit as last year. May be wrong but without that desire and spirit we are serious relegation contenders.
Therein lies the crux of the matter
Young ( and not so young ) players with mortgages to pay and most with young families have got to be worried about their futures with no contract talks on the agenda.
Could the togetherness that was so apparent in the squad over the past 2 seasons be experiencing a wobble which is affecting the performances on the pitch ? Maybe they have been told that they have to play their way to new contracts and that only x amount of them will be offered one. Perhaps the " all for one & one for all" mentality is showing cracks & it's turning into " every man for himself " within the FFP financial limitations ?
This is all pure speculation and I fervently hope that this could not be further from the truth. But the majority of our lads will be the bread winner in their family & we can all empathise when financial insecurity rears its ugly head.
Whilst I feel sure that SCP , himself in the same position as those players out of contract in 10 months time, urges them to concentrate on the job in hand, the anxiety felt may well have a detrimental effect on the lads' performances.
I can only base a view on two (or at least one and a half) home performances and match reports from Barnsley and Bournemouth and this looks like a different team to last season. Something very significant must have occurred off the field over the summer to de-stabilise the team to this extent. It's as though they know something that we (the fans) don't.
I have only seen Chris Solly play poorly twice in my entire life and those were the games against Boro and Donny. I find it hard to believe that this could be because his contract expires in June 2014 or that he has decided he has no enthusiasm for playing for CAFC. It's also interesting that the two players least affected (so far) seem to be Church and Cousins - neither of whom were part of the first team set up last season.
The wheels have come off the bus somewhere along the road and it is obvious in the body language of the players.
I think you state the case for the seriousness of the situation very well, Grumpy. Donny's first goal yesterday struck a nerve with me because it stemmed from a quick through-in down the line, parallel with our box. (No-one needs reminding that you can't be offside direct from a throw-in.) Conversely, our own throw-ins are invariably slowly taken, unimaginative, and often defensive; movement off the ball is generally minimal. It baffles me that we don't have any rehearsed moves, and I think this points to a major weakness in our coaching regime.
I went to our pre-season friendlies at Welling, AFC Wimbledon, and the Daggers; it seemed to me that our fitness and sharpness increased markedly after the training camp in Spain - I thought we looked lean and spring-heeled. Yet, even in the Wombles game there were long periods in the second half when our midfield went missing and the opposition were swinging crosses across our box almost at will. I thought our performance against Boro was very poor, and even the most extreme optimists must have been shaking their heads at the Donny game. I don't think that man-for-man Donny have more talented players, neither do I think our players are lacking fitness. The physical and mental weakness of our midfield, and the lack of collective cohesion are deeply troubling.
I think Jacko agreed with judging by his emptying his bottle of water on the pitch during the pitch inspection.
Did he really , brilliant .... How rude lol
That's our Jacko !!
Boy, do we miss him ! At 2-0 down yesterday, I said that this was turning into another Cardiff scenario but without JJ to take the bull by its proverbials & drag us back into the game kicking & screaming.
I think people saying "the players have contracts so should give 100% regardless" are missing the point.
Yes, they should give their all every game but they are human so they don't.
It's not just a question of having a contract or not either. If a player has been told he'll get a contract extension and the squad will be strenghtened and neither happens they get disallussioned.
They will hear the rumours and gossip and true or not they will see the signs of neglect and decline that stilladdickted mentioned.
When you don't have the best players or the biggest budget then you need team spirit, fight, committment more than ever but these are just the sort of qualities that are lost when your faith in the club you play for are constantly being knocked by broken promises and lack of investement.
The mantra over the summer for many was that off the field/boardrrom matters were of no concern as "it's what happens on the pitch that matters".
That was always a falacy as what happens in the boardroom impacts directly and indirectly on to the pitch and we are now seeing the fruits of there being no plan, short or long, beyond selling the Club.
What is sickening is that having finished 9th we were a fairly attractive purchase. TJ and MS knew this hence the leaked prospectus being produced in May.
The summer was the time to sell because if we started badly, as we have, the Club becomes less and less attractive. The buyers were there but the price was too high and the assets over-egged leading to buyers walking away.
Now we just have to hope that TJ and MS see sense and that buyers can still be found.
I think they will but I worry about how much pain we will have to go through until that happens.
Stiil, no one ever said following Charlton would be a bed of roses.
Back the team
Get behind Chris Powell
Join the Trust
Live. Love. Laugh and Be Happy.
Great post, Henry.
With you all the way on backing all concerned ( minus the owners) to the hilt.
We're still determined to obey the three L's and to smile. All we as supporters can reasonably do is to sign the Trust petition and get the Valley listed as a community asset (vital IMO), to keep asking the questions and to cheer our lads on, even if they don't always deserve it! I'm hanging onto the dream................... and I still love Chrissy and Alex. ( Sorry Jean, I know I'm a tart ;-))
Lol, Anni !
And I thought it was Weegie with her Changing Room visits !
Ok,, so this my first posting on this site and I apologise for not previously introducing myself. Right. Now let me get to the point. I have never read such a collection of negatve rubbish. Some of you should consider a career with those well known to us all, anti Charlton publications. Better still, write the programme notes for the Stripey Nigels or Smallwall. They'd love to read the verbal diarrohea being spewed by so called Charlton fans. How do some of you appear to 'know' so much about the goings on at the club? I bet you don't know half as much about the companies that pay your wages! If you are all so knowledgeable, how many of you can say that you are in managerial positions at the level of SCP and the board of directors? It isn't rocket science to understnd that the outgoings probably outweigh the income. Try spending your wages the way you think the club should use it's limited funds and see how long it is before you're sponsoring Newcastle United! You call yourselves supporters - get a dictionary.
You think this is tough? Speak to those of us who were around when we had a whip round to buy Ronnie Moore. Those of us that can remember 1985.
SCP is the current 'Lennie Lawrence'. Get behind him and the club like the supporters you claim to be.
Ffs, the hasn't got going yet and we're stil without half of our midfield. If the players take your negative attitude we might as well start planning the route to nowhere. Let's have a change of attitude and get of the anti-depressants.
Comments
However, we are talking about 95% of the squad and the management team. And these are the people who have performed superbly for the last few years.
Whether it 'should' affect them is not the point. The fact that it is so widespread is the most important factor and will have an effect on performance.
The cutbacks tell their own story about our day to day finances.
The alternative is, yes, the football staff want job security, but if the club goes belly up then they can't be afforded anyway. We will be in a new stark situation where survival comes before success., and we will have to balance the books.
I can't see how when the whistle blows the players are conscious of their own job position, they will lose themselves in the game as footballers. There may be a subconscious bad vibe inside, but they certainly won't be meaning to play poorly or make mistakes.
I think Prague gets it, in as much as there is a creeping eroding effect around the place, not one specific but a concinnity of factors all coming together.
So, who is likely to add a bit of positivity? As supporters we could, Andy Hughes could up his game as the team spirit wizard, collectively we could forget our own worries and nurture the younger players into the team, make that our project. The open and honest Chris Powell could hide any misgivings in training and elsewhere and make the experience as positive as possible. As others have said the players could try harder to rekindle the team spirit of last season, and everybody could try to look after everybody else to create a more upbeat feeling. Something can be done, it may be not much, but better than wallowing in the misery. It may not even be enough, but what else is there?
On the playing and managing there is everything to gain by always giving 100%, as we always try to do as supporters.
There is always a way to respond in the best manner in difficult circumstances.
A lot of them are lucky to be playing at this level - do you think they've forgotten that?
Some of you need to work on a bit of balance rather than fanatically following the past couple of weeks of football all the bloody time.
As was the case last season I'll take 21st now.
Back the team
Get behind Chris Powell
Join the Trust
Live. Love. Laugh and Be Happy.
This
But then we will have to probably go on free signings and will end up a average league one club for a 3/4 seasons before building enough to challenge. Sad but i do think we are now a club that could well hop between these two leagues.
I've been to every league so far this season , as I'm sure many on here have, have seen enough seasons of Charlton to know they never do what you think they are going to do.
After the B Mouth game my son was quite disheartened and I said to him that it could be 5 or 6 games before we get our first league win.
It's early days and players who were a shoe in 7 plus performance last season are not at that level at the moment.
I still hope and believe that we will get better, although it would help if we could start by scoring the first goal it might give the players a bit of belief and the crowd something to cheer about.
By the way I know people might complain about the attendance being low , but I thought those that were there made a right old racket, keep it going guys and gals, our support is crucial.
I am not normally a person that worries too much, but at this present moment i can honestly say i am very worried about our club and the lack of direction right now. If the board was to say " yes we have no money, we are trying to sell etc " at least we would know what was going on, but we dont!
Positives: Jordan Cousins - a real find
I have only seen Chris Solly play poorly twice in my entire life and those were the games against Boro and Donny. I find it hard to believe that this could be because his contract expires in June 2014 or that he has decided he has no enthusiasm for playing for CAFC. It's also interesting that the two players least affected (so far) seem to be Church and Cousins - neither of whom were part of the first team set up last season.
The wheels have come off the bus somewhere along the road and it is obvious in the body language of the players.
And just to add...
The irony of this poor start is that it might do one of two things...
1) Force some investment in the squad to improve both the weakest parts and the overall performance / freshen things up
2) Bring the price of the club down to something that converts into a sale.
Relegation is just not an option as tv money goes down by £3M+ and CAFC loses the additional £2M (?) coming through next season. I won't comment on individual players as I don't know enough about the game and it just doesn't seem right - what I will say is that the board is not stupid and are in for £20M of loans between Richard Murray and the new owners.
And hold on because, as stated more than once, this season is going to be bumpy, very bumpy!
Young ( and not so young ) players with mortgages to pay and most with young families have got to be worried about their futures with no contract talks on the agenda.
Could the togetherness that was so apparent in the squad over the past 2 seasons be experiencing a wobble which is affecting the performances on the pitch ? Maybe they have been told that they have to play their way to new contracts and that only x amount of them will be offered one. Perhaps the " all for one & one for all" mentality is showing cracks & it's turning into " every man for himself " within the FFP financial limitations ?
This is all pure speculation and I fervently hope that this could not be further from the truth. But the majority of our lads will be the bread winner in their family & we can all empathise when financial insecurity rears its ugly head.
Whilst I feel sure that SCP , himself in the same position as those players out of contract in 10 months time, urges them to concentrate on the job in hand, the anxiety felt may well have a detrimental effect on the lads' performances.
Just my opinion , of course .
I went to our pre-season friendlies at Welling, AFC Wimbledon, and the Daggers; it seemed to me that our fitness and sharpness increased markedly after the training camp in Spain - I thought we looked lean and spring-heeled. Yet, even in the Wombles game there were long periods in the second half when our midfield went missing and the opposition were swinging crosses across our box almost at will. I thought our performance against Boro was very poor, and even the most extreme optimists must have been shaking their heads at the Donny game. I don't think that man-for-man Donny have more talented players, neither do I think our players are lacking fitness. The physical and mental weakness of our midfield, and the lack of collective cohesion are deeply troubling.
Boy, do we miss him ! At 2-0 down yesterday, I said that this was turning into another Cardiff scenario but without JJ to take the bull by its proverbials & drag us back into the game kicking & screaming.
With you all the way on backing all concerned ( minus the owners) to the hilt.
And I thought it was Weegie with her Changing Room visits !
Right. Now let me get to the point. I have never read such a collection of negatve rubbish. Some of you should consider a career with those well known to us all, anti Charlton publications. Better still, write the programme notes for the Stripey Nigels or Smallwall. They'd love to read the verbal diarrohea being spewed by so called Charlton fans.
How do some of you appear to 'know' so much about the goings on at the club? I bet you don't know half as much about the companies that pay your wages!
If you are all so knowledgeable, how many of you can say that you are in managerial positions at the level of SCP and the board of directors?
It isn't rocket science to understnd that the outgoings probably outweigh the income. Try spending your wages the way you think the club should use it's limited funds and see how long it is before you're sponsoring Newcastle United!
You call yourselves supporters - get a dictionary.
You think this is tough? Speak to those of us who were around when we had a whip round to buy Ronnie Moore. Those of us that can remember 1985.
SCP is the current 'Lennie Lawrence'. Get behind him and the club like the supporters you claim to be.
Ffs, the hasn't got going yet and we're stil without half of our midfield.
If the players take your negative attitude we might as well start planning the route to nowhere.
Let's have a change of attitude and get of the anti-depressants.