Viewfinder, thanks for that. I accept that opinions will vary, in a crowd of 14K there will be a few genius's, and a sprinkling of numbskulls. The comment made me lose my temper for a moment, I should know better.
Viewfinder, thanks for that. I accept that opinions will vary, in a crowd of 14K there will be a few genius's, and a sprinkling of numbskulls. The comment made me lose my temper for a moment, I should know better.
I'm with you, Granpa. Stand your ground and keep the flag flying.
Kent Addick, if that was aimed at me, let mejust tellyou that I know how it feels to watch your son slowly die over 2 years. We coped, although you never totally recover. Your comment was ignorant, very much I suspectlike yourself.
Seriously Granpa , Kent Addick was I'm sure figuratively speaking and was pointing out how irrelevant it is getting so worked up over a couple of losses , when we all know in the bigger picture of life football means diddly squat in reality And I'm sure he like us all is sorry to hear what you and your family went thru with your son . Please don't take things to heart on here or you'll go mad(der) :-)
Kent Addick, if that was aimed at me, let mejust tellyou that I know how it feels to watch your son slowly die over 2 years. We coped, although you never totally recover. Your comment was ignorant, very much I suspectlike yourself.
@Granpa I have to say I'm very embarressed and ashamed of my comment, in hindsight. Wasn't exactly aimed at you just some posters on here and I believe my comment about people's personal lives was always going to get a reaction. Can't imagine what you went through I apologise for saying that. Although my point remains that there are people who overreact too much on this site... Seems like I might also be one of them. Apologies once again.
I find the talk of it being 'embarrassing' for us to win the 3rd division pretty arrogant personally and the sort of outlook I'd expect of someone who supports a Newcastle or Liverpool.
Though it may have been below our level as a club, pretty much every player in a red shirt that year achieved a career high for themselves. For anyone to try and take the meaning of that away from them because of what 'we' were watching with Charlton 5-10+ years ago is very selfish IMO.
Completely agree with this and the fans should regard it as a career high for supporting their club.
But there again I forgot that the countless trophies we won before then does make winning League One a very low achievement.
I'm disappointed with the game against Boro. Thought they dominated and if their strikers hadn't been finding their form we might have faced a scoreline like last season's. I am very worried about our midfield and am also worried that CP doesn't seem to have clear answers, certainly not with the players he's got to hand. Yes we missed Pritch's energy and Jacko's command in the 2nd half. I thought Stephens had a real sense of urgency to start with but it faded. But hey, not going to go over that - we have a midfield problem, it was where we were overrun. We had it a lot of last season, which was why we didn't do very well at home for much of it. I hope CP can find something to pull out of the hat for this; I wouldn't guarantee it but to echo what some others have said - we have a club legend managing us, who has overachieved with the resources given to him, is still learning, and conducts himself with class and dignity. Yes there are better managers out there, but do we think any could be attracted to The Valley if the owners gave CP the push? (or he left through lack of support from the owners?) Very few championship clubs in a better place with this IMO.
And to come onto the "Winning League 1 doesn't count" argument. CAFC got into League 1 on merit, unfortunately. I'd rhather it hadn't happened that way, but it did. But we got back out of it in the same way - on merit. I enjoyed the L1 winning season a lot and it's made my daughter a Charlton fan. I'm not a fan of the "we're too important/big a club to be in this division". Almost everyone gets relegated and it is a test for the club and its supporters how well it copes. I'm a lot more comfortable with the way that Charlton adapted to being in L1 than certain big clubs from Yorkshire who felt they ought to just be given automatic promotion. It's also fairly disrespectful to the fans of the other teams in L1 at the time - who can forget the fabulous Hartlepool smurfs? And they made a lot of racket for their numbers, especially when they didn't stick to the script and went ahead. It's that unpredictability that makes football so good - and probably Charlton more so than most. I thought we were on for a serious drubbing last season after going 2-0 down to Cardiff.
Do I think this season is going to be a bit of a slog? Probably. Would I rather it wasn't. Yep. Can I do anything about it? No. So, I will probably masochistically carry on going to home games and pick a couple of likely aways that I can afford.
I don't think we need a new coach. I do think we need some freshness in midfield.
It was the first time in 60 years that I have been shamed by a Charlton team, and its management. The loyal supporters deserve better.
Granpa, with the greatest respect, we play worse than that at least 5 times every season on average & some seasons we play worse than that much more often.
If you have attended all our home games in the last 60 years, then you must have seen us play worse on approximately 300 occasions.
Look on the bright side. It would appear that you've forgotten all 300 games.
I find the talk of it being 'embarrassing' for us to win the 3rd division pretty arrogant personally and the sort of outlook I'd expect of someone who supports a Newcastle or Liverpool.
Though it may have been below our level as a club, pretty much every player in a red shirt that year achieved a career high for themselves. For anyone to try and take the meaning of that away from them because of what 'we' were watching with Charlton 5-10+ years ago is very selfish IMO.
It's not being arrogant though, without taking away from the achievement of winning the thing we (board, managers, players and maybe the attitude of some fans) f**ked up royally. Our downfall from the well run model club was immense and wiped clean the achievements of Curbs and his players.
Considering our recent history and the avoiding of third tier football since the early eighties things could've been dealt with better. If it was just the football I'd understand but we were the masters of our destiny, that's why we shouldn't have been there.
Still, those (CE above) who managed to get to new grounds, places and pubs probably enjoyed it.
I have been sceptical of Powell's coaching methods on several occasions in the past few seasons, originally when BWP hit a long dry spell and the coaching staff were ineffective in getting his mojo back. I concur with what you say about Boro - they walked through our defence almost at will, always with a spare man; it was simply too easy for them. For us to have only one shot on target at home proves there is something seriously wrong. I saw warning signs pre-season at AFC Wombles: whole periods in the second half when the midfield was absent. Why aren't Green's repeated failings - free-kicks that don't get past the first defender; corners that are put directly out of play - coached out of him at Sparrows Lane?
Presumably by this same rationale, you are sceptical of Jose Mourinho's coaching methods given that he was unable to to get Andrey Shevchenko's "mojo" back at Chelsea?
Saw warning signs during one game at AFC Wimbledon. So presumably you watched the last 8 games of last year and saw "warning signs" that we were going to tear the Championship a new one this year?
Danny Green is an adult professional football getting paid £x thousand a week. I sincerely hope that Powell doesn't feel like he needs to be telling him "try not to hit the first man, old chap" every time he has to take a corner, otherwise we're in more trouble than I thought. Criticise Powell for giving Green too many chances (as I will), but don't criticise him for the absolutely terrible decision making that Green is responsible for on the pitch. By the way, I've also seen Ashley Young hit the first man about 5 corners in a row, but I presume you're not about to take Alex Ferguson to task for not sorting that out.
Kent Addick, thank you for your apology. In fact I was wrong, it takes a big and intelligent person to say what you did. I probably knew that my comments were a bit provocative, but I believe very strongly about the coaching. You are right to say that too many of us react badly at times including me, unfortunately as you said this time it touched a nerve. On the positive side, I believe that I prompted a very lively debate after a bit of a quiet Summer on the forum, let's hope that I might have prompted a more lively reaction on Saturday.
Granpa, with the greatest respect, we play worse than that at least 5 times every season on average & some seasons we play worse than that much more often. If you have attended all our home games in the last 60 years, then you must have seen us play worse on approximately 300 occasions. Look on the bright side. It would appear that you've forgotten all 300 games.
Covered End, of course I have seen us play worse many times, but on Saturday the difference between the way in which the sides had been coached was so obvious that it made me mad. It is difficult to compare 50/60 years ago with 2013. Today football is an entirely different game. However in another 60 years people like us will still be expressing different views on a subject, only you will have to have your spats with Grandson of Granpa. Best of luck.
, I went back into the archives to read discussions taking place in 2000, and was struck how courteous Lifers were to each other then. Standards have plummeted.
Go down to the training ground, or if you arent allowed in, then Footscray Rugby club during the week and watch us train through the fence. Then get a more extensive view on our coaching staff.
Ultimately, on a saturday afternoon, the performance is down to the 11 on the pitch.
Go down to the training ground, or if you arent allowed in, then Footscray Rugby club during the week and watch us train through the fence. Then get a more extensive view on our coaching staff.
Ultimately, on a saturday afternoon, the performance is down to the 11 on the pitch.
This 100% you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
I have been sceptical of Powell's coaching methods on several occasions in the past few seasons, originally when BWP hit a long dry spell and the coaching staff were ineffective in getting his mojo back. I concur with what you say about Boro - they walked through our defence almost at will, always with a spare man; it was simply too easy for them. For us to have only one shot on target at home proves there is something seriously wrong. I saw warning signs pre-season at AFC Wombles: whole periods in the second half when the midfield was absent. Why aren't Green's repeated failings - free-kicks that don't get past the first defender; corners that are put directly out of play - coached out of him at Sparrows Lane?
Presumably by this same rationale, you are sceptical of Jose Mourinho's coaching methods given that he was unable to to get Andrey Shevchenko's "mojo" back at Chelsea?
Saw warning signs during one game at AFC Wimbledon. So presumably you watched the last 8 games of last year and saw "warning signs" that we were going to tear the Championship a new one this year?
Danny Green is an adult professional football getting paid £x thousand a week. I sincerely hope that Powell doesn't feel like he needs to be telling him "try not to hit the first man, old chap" every time he has to take a corner, otherwise we're in more trouble than I thought. Criticise Powell for giving Green too many chances (as I will), but don't criticise him for the absolutely terrible decision making that Green is responsible for on the pitch. By the way, I've also seen Ashley Young hit the first man about 5 corners in a row, but I presume you're not about to take Alex Ferguson to task for not sorting that out.
So why do you think the managers themselves almost invariably admit responsibility for consistently poor performances? They don't blame the players or the chairman - they know they carry the can. If a player consistently fails, it's the responsibility of the manager to replace him or improve him. Danny Green's repeated basic errors don't fit with an ambitious Championship team.
I have been sceptical of Powell's coaching methods on several occasions in the past few seasons, originally when BWP hit a long dry spell and the coaching staff were ineffective in getting his mojo back. I concur with what you say about Boro - they walked through our defence almost at will, always with a spare man; it was simply too easy for them. For us to have only one shot on target at home proves there is something seriously wrong. I saw warning signs pre-season at AFC Wombles: whole periods in the second half when the midfield was absent. Why aren't Green's repeated failings - free-kicks that don't get past the first defender; corners that are put directly out of play - coached out of him at Sparrows Lane?
Presumably by this same rationale, you are sceptical of Jose Mourinho's coaching methods given that he was unable to to get Andrey Shevchenko's "mojo" back at Chelsea?
Saw warning signs during one game at AFC Wimbledon. So presumably you watched the last 8 games of last year and saw "warning signs" that we were going to tear the Championship a new one this year?
Danny Green is an adult professional football getting paid £x thousand a week. I sincerely hope that Powell doesn't feel like he needs to be telling him "try not to hit the first man, old chap" every time he has to take a corner, otherwise we're in more trouble than I thought. Criticise Powell for giving Green too many chances (as I will), but don't criticise him for the absolutely terrible decision making that Green is responsible for on the pitch. By the way, I've also seen Ashley Young hit the first man about 5 corners in a row, but I presume you're not about to take Alex Ferguson to task for not sorting that out.
So why do you think the managers themselves almost invariably admit responsibility for consistently poor performances? They don't blame the players or the chairman - they know they carry the can. If a player consistently fails, it's the responsibility of the manager to replace him or improve him. Danny Green's repeated basic errors don't fit with an ambitious Championship team.
they admit it's their responsibility so not to damage the morale of the players and yes, at the end of the day it's their job to get the team playing well.
I have been sceptical of Powell's coaching methods on several occasions in the past few seasons, originally when BWP hit a long dry spell and the coaching staff were ineffective in getting his mojo back. I concur with what you say about Boro - they walked through our defence almost at will, always with a spare man; it was simply too easy for them. For us to have only one shot on target at home proves there is something seriously wrong. I saw warning signs pre-season at AFC Wombles: whole periods in the second half when the midfield was absent. Why aren't Green's repeated failings - free-kicks that don't get past the first defender; corners that are put directly out of play - coached out of him at Sparrows Lane?
Presumably by this same rationale, you are sceptical of Jose Mourinho's coaching methods given that he was unable to to get Andrey Shevchenko's "mojo" back at Chelsea?
Saw warning signs during one game at AFC Wimbledon. So presumably you watched the last 8 games of last year and saw "warning signs" that we were going to tear the Championship a new one this year?
Danny Green is an adult professional football getting paid £x thousand a week. I sincerely hope that Powell doesn't feel like he needs to be telling him "try not to hit the first man, old chap" every time he has to take a corner, otherwise we're in more trouble than I thought. Criticise Powell for giving Green too many chances (as I will), but don't criticise him for the absolutely terrible decision making that Green is responsible for on the pitch. By the way, I've also seen Ashley Young hit the first man about 5 corners in a row, but I presume you're not about to take Alex Ferguson to task for not sorting that out.
So why do you think the managers themselves almost invariably admit responsibility for consistently poor performances? They don't blame the players or the chairman - they know they carry the can. If a player consistently fails, it's the responsibility of the manager to replace him or improve him. Danny Green's repeated basic errors don't fit with an ambitious Championship team.
Only a handful of managers have ever come out and blamed their players. You just cant do it. Morale would hit rock bottom and the dressing room would be lost. CP has probably had a very stern word with all his players that its not good enough and the buck stops with them, in private.
Its all well and good saying replace or improve him, but CP hasnt had the resources to replace him and i'd expect a pro footballer to be able to take a corner. Its Greens responsibility. Its Green that needs to use his brain and stick to the set pieces that have been arranged.
As i said, perhaps go a watch some training sessions. Then try and be ciritical of the coaching staff.
I have been sceptical of Powell's coaching methods on several occasions in the past few seasons, originally when BWP hit a long dry spell and the coaching staff were ineffective in getting his mojo back. I concur with what you say about Boro - they walked through our defence almost at will, always with a spare man; it was simply too easy for them. For us to have only one shot on target at home proves there is something seriously wrong. I saw warning signs pre-season at AFC Wombles: whole periods in the second half when the midfield was absent. Why aren't Green's repeated failings - free-kicks that don't get past the first defender; corners that are put directly out of play - coached out of him at Sparrows Lane?
Presumably by this same rationale, you are sceptical of Jose Mourinho's coaching methods given that he was unable to to get Andrey Shevchenko's "mojo" back at Chelsea?
Saw warning signs during one game at AFC Wimbledon. So presumably you watched the last 8 games of last year and saw "warning signs" that we were going to tear the Championship a new one this year?
Danny Green is an adult professional football getting paid £x thousand a week. I sincerely hope that Powell doesn't feel like he needs to be telling him "try not to hit the first man, old chap" every time he has to take a corner, otherwise we're in more trouble than I thought. Criticise Powell for giving Green too many chances (as I will), but don't criticise him for the absolutely terrible decision making that Green is responsible for on the pitch. By the way, I've also seen Ashley Young hit the first man about 5 corners in a row, but I presume you're not about to take Alex Ferguson to task for not sorting that out.
So why do you think the managers themselves almost invariably admit responsibility for consistently poor performances? They don't blame the players or the chairman - they know they carry the can. If a player consistently fails, it's the responsibility of the manager to replace him or improve him. Danny Green's repeated basic errors don't fit with an ambitious Championship team.
Only a handful of managers have ever come out and blamed their players. You just cant do it. Morale would hit rock bottom and the dressing room would be lost. CP has probably had a very stern word with all his players that its not good enough and the buck stops with them, in private.
Its all well and good saying replace or improve him, but CP hasnt had the resources to replace him and i'd expect a pro footballer to be able to take a corner. Its Greens responsibility. Its Green that needs to use his brain and stick to the set pieces that have been arranged.
As i said, perhaps go a watch some training sessions. Then try and be ciritical of the coaching staff.
About Danny Green - You suggest I go and watch some training sessions. They are none of my business. I wouldn't go to rehearsals before a concert, and after I have paid for my admission I don't expect to hear musicians repeatedly playing bum notes.
I have been sceptical of Powell's coaching methods on several occasions in the past few seasons, originally when BWP hit a long dry spell and the coaching staff were ineffective in getting his mojo back. I concur with what you say about Boro - they walked through our defence almost at will, always with a spare man; it was simply too easy for them. For us to have only one shot on target at home proves there is something seriously wrong. I saw warning signs pre-season at AFC Wombles: whole periods in the second half when the midfield was absent. Why aren't Green's repeated failings - free-kicks that don't get past the first defender; corners that are put directly out of play - coached out of him at Sparrows Lane?
Presumably by this same rationale, you are sceptical of Jose Mourinho's coaching methods given that he was unable to to get Andrey Shevchenko's "mojo" back at Chelsea?
Saw warning signs during one game at AFC Wimbledon. So presumably you watched the last 8 games of last year and saw "warning signs" that we were going to tear the Championship a new one this year?
Danny Green is an adult professional football getting paid £x thousand a week. I sincerely hope that Powell doesn't feel like he needs to be telling him "try not to hit the first man, old chap" every time he has to take a corner, otherwise we're in more trouble than I thought. Criticise Powell for giving Green too many chances (as I will), but don't criticise him for the absolutely terrible decision making that Green is responsible for on the pitch. By the way, I've also seen Ashley Young hit the first man about 5 corners in a row, but I presume you're not about to take Alex Ferguson to task for not sorting that out.
So why do you think the managers themselves almost invariably admit responsibility for consistently poor performances? They don't blame the players or the chairman - they know they carry the can. If a player consistently fails, it's the responsibility of the manager to replace him or improve him. Danny Green's repeated basic errors don't fit with an ambitious Championship team.
Only a handful of managers have ever come out and blamed their players. You just cant do it. Morale would hit rock bottom and the dressing room would be lost. CP has probably had a very stern word with all his players that its not good enough and the buck stops with them, in private.
Its all well and good saying replace or improve him, but CP hasnt had the resources to replace him and i'd expect a pro footballer to be able to take a corner. Its Greens responsibility. Its Green that needs to use his brain and stick to the set pieces that have been arranged.
As i said, perhaps go a watch some training sessions. Then try and be ciritical of the coaching staff.
About Danny Green - You suggest I go and watch some training sessions. They are none of my business. I wouldn't go to rehearsals before a concert, and after I have paid for my admission I don't expect to hear musicians repeatedly playing bum notes.
What????
You are digging out the coaching staff yet you have absolutely no idea what they do or how they do it.
Comments
And I'm sure he like us all is sorry to hear what you and your family went thru with your son .
Please don't take things to heart on here or you'll go mad(der) :-)
I have to say I'm very embarressed and ashamed of my comment, in hindsight. Wasn't exactly aimed at you just some posters on here and I believe my comment about people's personal lives was always going to get a reaction. Can't imagine what you went through I apologise for saying that. Although my point remains that there are people who overreact too much on this site... Seems like I might also be one of them. Apologies once again.
But there again I forgot that the countless trophies we won before then does make winning League One a very low achievement.
And to come onto the "Winning League 1 doesn't count" argument. CAFC got into League 1 on merit, unfortunately. I'd rhather it hadn't happened that way, but it did.
But we got back out of it in the same way - on merit. I enjoyed the L1 winning season a lot and it's made my daughter a Charlton fan. I'm not a fan of the "we're too important/big a club to be in this division". Almost everyone gets relegated and it is a test for the club and its supporters how well it copes. I'm a lot more comfortable with the way that Charlton adapted to being in L1 than certain big clubs from Yorkshire who felt they ought to just be given automatic promotion. It's also fairly disrespectful to the fans of the other teams in L1 at the time - who can forget the fabulous Hartlepool smurfs? And they made a lot of racket for their numbers, especially when they didn't stick to the script and went ahead. It's that unpredictability that makes football so good - and probably Charlton more so than most. I thought we were on for a serious drubbing last season after going 2-0 down to Cardiff.
Do I think this season is going to be a bit of a slog? Probably. Would I rather it wasn't. Yep. Can I do anything about it? No. So, I will probably masochistically carry on going to home games and pick a couple of likely aways that I can afford.
I don't think we need a new coach. I do think we need some freshness in midfield.
If you have attended all our home games in the last 60 years, then you must have seen us play worse on approximately 300 occasions.
Look on the bright side. It would appear that you've forgotten all 300 games.
Considering our recent history and the avoiding of third tier football since the early eighties things could've been dealt with better. If it was just the football I'd understand but we were the masters of our destiny, that's why we shouldn't have been there.
Still, those (CE above) who managed to get to new grounds, places and pubs probably enjoyed it.
I didn't and the football was shit.
Saw warning signs during one game at AFC Wimbledon. So presumably you watched the last 8 games of last year and saw "warning signs" that we were going to tear the Championship a new one this year?
Danny Green is an adult professional football getting paid £x thousand a week. I sincerely hope that Powell doesn't feel like he needs to be telling him "try not to hit the first man, old chap" every time he has to take a corner, otherwise we're in more trouble than I thought. Criticise Powell for giving Green too many chances (as I will), but don't criticise him for the absolutely terrible decision making that Green is responsible for on the pitch. By the way, I've also seen Ashley Young hit the first man about 5 corners in a row, but I presume you're not about to take Alex Ferguson to task for not sorting that out.
If you have attended all our home games in the last 60 years, then you must have seen us play worse on approximately 300 occasions.
Look on the bright side. It would appear that you've forgotten all 300 games.
Covered End, of course I have seen us play worse many times, but on Saturday the difference between the way in which the sides had been coached was so obvious that it made me mad. It is difficult to compare 50/60 years ago with 2013. Today football is an entirely different game. However in another 60 years people like us will still be expressing different views on a subject, only you will have to have your spats with Grandson of Granpa. Best of luck.
Ultimately, on a saturday afternoon, the performance is down to the 11 on the pitch.
Its all well and good saying replace or improve him, but CP hasnt had the resources to replace him and i'd expect a pro footballer to be able to take a corner. Its Greens responsibility. Its Green that needs to use his brain and stick to the set pieces that have been arranged.
As i said, perhaps go a watch some training sessions. Then try and be ciritical of the coaching staff.
You are digging out the coaching staff yet you have absolutely no idea what they do or how they do it.
Once those players cross the white line, the manager and coaching staff have limited opportunity to change things from that point.
And, I bet, they don't practise Green trying to score direct from corners all week at the training ground...