Bottom line is, unless investors past and present decide soon to cut their losses to a far greater degree than they are at the moment, this is going to have an ugly conclusion.
I was told one of the bidders was Russian and they made a "sensible" offer, with significant player funding being made available also, yet were knocked back because they weren't offering enough for the board....
Bottom line is, unless investors past and present decide soon to cut their losses to a far greater degree than they are at the moment, this is going to have an ugly conclusion.
It seem the current custodians are determined to maximise their 'investment'. The real problem is clear. Unless someone meets the excessive asking price they will seek other means to achieve this. Selling players may only be the start.
Inreresting that £40M is up from the £35M rumoured last time. The club can only be worth that if in the top 6. And thats without the various debts and mortgages.
Anyone have any idea what it will cost to guarantee promotion?! It's only as a Premier League club that CAFC has value so best bet is to get closer to promotion to realise anythung approaching that price.
Given there are £30-40M of debts the price suggests they are 100% sure of promotion!
Even if this is true Colin, there is little chance of him getting that money back, ever, so in the end the debt will get bigger and his losses will be greater.
Bottom line is, unless investors past and present decide soon to cut their losses to a far greater degree than they are at the moment, this is going to have an ugly conclusion.
In what way ugly? There are several ways this can play out... someone on another thread suggested that all creditors become deferred - payable upon promotion to the Premier League. People seriously interested in buying the club might wait until a lower bid is more acceptable?
Investors don't always make money or even get their investments back, that's the nature of the beast. If I did all my beans in the bookies I couldn't camp in there in the hope they'd give me some of my stake back.
Fact.....It's got nothing to do with TJ and MS anymore, all companies and people who want to buy the club have to talk direct to Kevin Cash who wants his investment appox 35 mill paid back in full before he sells. There have been at least 4 groups shown round the Valley and training ground but then they talk money and the deal fails....
I can't understand this, because as we know the Mail reported at the end of May - Charlton chairman Michael Slater said: ‘We are not interested in selling and it’s nonsense to suggest otherwise.’
I can, however, assure you that the net investment in the club since January 2011 is nothing like £35m. Half that would about right.
It is best for TJ and MS, the club and Charlton need to move on. A club that goes out of business threatens all the investors money. It would be a miracle for Charlton to be promoted on the current level of investment. I only hope that some reality sets in and that the price is dropped. Not that I see much evidence of that at the moment.
Can someone reassure me that the Valley as an asset is safe from TJ / KC / MS getting their hands on it to get their money back that way ?
Bottom line is, unless investors past and present decide soon to cut their losses to a far greater degree than they are at the moment, this is going to have an ugly conclusion.
In what way ugly?
Sale of best players (and, hence, relegation)? SCP walks? Sale of real estate? Administration? Liquidation?
Bottom line is, unless investors past and present decide soon to cut their losses to a far greater degree than they are at the moment, this is going to have an ugly conclusion.
In what way ugly?
Sale of best players (and, hence, relegation)? SCP walks? Sale of real estate? Administration? Liquidation?
...but those outcomes would make no sense for the current owners.
In many ways the piece, if true, should be seen as good news insofar as it suggests that there are potential buyers for the Club.
The owners now face a choice between continuing to fund losses at a level sufficient to retain Championship football, whilst trying to strike a deal at an inflated price, or cutting their losses and reducing the price. As I see it there is no alternative. Let's hope that ego or sheer bloody mindedness don't get in the way of a rational decision.
The owners now face a choice between continuing to fund losses at a level sufficient to retain Championship football, whilst trying to strike a deal at an inflated price, or cutting their losses and reducing the price.
The problem is the longer they leave it, the greater the debts they incur/build up and therefore the greater the price they need.
Bottom line is, unless investors past and present decide soon to cut their losses to a far greater degree than they are at the moment, this is going to have an ugly conclusion.
In what way ugly?
Sale of best players (and, hence, relegation)? SCP walks? Sale of real estate? Administration? Liquidation?
Let's hope that ego or sheer bloody mindedness don't get in the way of a rational decision.
Agree with all you say apart from changing the last sentence to 'Let's hope that ego or sheer bloody mindedness don't continue get in the way of a rational decision'
Yes. The chite article suggests there are interested parties. It also talks about a price. A deal could be possible at the right price I presume. I also presume that any interested parties would want a clean break from the current regime and do their own thing. So it is about what would be reasonable for Tone and co to get their money back. lets presume they don't want to lose any money (as all of us shareholders did when the club became private again), then that is two years at about £7mil per year. round it up to £15mil and they get out of the club with a decent drink in it for Tones crew. Any interested parties could then buy Charlton for £15mil, and have to take on the liabilities of x amount. If Tone and his crew are saying 'oh no, we want £40mil (a profit of £25mil for running and decimating things for a couple of years), and you can have the club plus it's debts', then they are playing hardball with our club and will eventually lose everything, as we will too. The difference is that we will establish a CAFC 2013, do a deal with the administrators and the council for the Valley, and rebuild from the Kent league. Tone and his crew will simply have a £15mil hole in their bank account(s). There is a deal to be done out there, but not if Tone plays silly buggers like he did with Villa.
As pointed out elsewhere most of the best players only have 10 months to run on contracts... The Valley is an asset with a charge secured against it by the bank of c. £5M... (answers vff?) Unless the owners move quickly in terms of a sale or securing additional investment then reducing losses through the occasional player sale might be the only way to keep going. Unless we are close to that second promotion is the deal price going to be significantly better than that which Richard Murray achieved?!
every book/toy/car/house/business seller knows .. always ask for a lot more than you really expect to get
That's fair enough, but the fact that there has been allegedly some investors shown around the club, and they alll walked, is not encouraging that TJ / MS are putting on a high price for negotiating purposes.
The higher the sale price the less the new owners have for future investment in the club. It seems very unlikely that are going to be able to sell the club in the first place, and with more money being poured in, I don't see how they are going to get their money back, will that increase the sale price further ? Investment in the club is limited and would take a miracle to achieve promotion.
If you were a potential investor, you would wait for the price to be more reasonable.
every book/toy/car/house/business seller knows .. always ask for a lot more than you really expect to get
That's fair enough, but the fact that there has been allegedly some investors shown around the club, and they alll walked, is not encouraging that TJ / MS are putting on a high price for negotiating purposes.
The higher the sale price the less the new owners have for future investment in the club. It seems very unlikely that are going to be able to sell the club in the first place, and with more money being poured in, I don't see how they are going to get their money back, will that increase the sale price further ? Investment in the club is limited and would take a miracle to achieve promotion.
If you were a potential investor, you would wait for the price to be more reasonable.
What we don't know, of course, is at what rate they may have borrowed money loaned to the club. This would presumably inflate what they need to offset their loss over and above the club's debts.
I don't know whether 40 million is the right price or not for buying out the current owners, but it seems crackers for that money you could either buy a family based football club , with a solid fan base and a good standing in the community, or you could buy a South American vampire, with more flaws in his personality than the Shard building, I know which one I'd buy.
Comments
Watching the current stewardship of the club is like watching a slow motion car crash.
Anyone have any idea what it will cost to guarantee promotion?! It's only as a Premier League club that CAFC has value so best bet is to get closer to promotion to realise anythung approaching that price.
Given there are £30-40M of debts the price suggests they are 100% sure of promotion!
If I did all my beans in the bookies I couldn't camp in there in the hope they'd give me some of my stake back.
Charlton chairman Michael Slater said: ‘We are not interested in selling and it’s nonsense to suggest otherwise.’
I can, however, assure you that the net investment in the club since January 2011 is nothing like £35m. Half that would about right.
Can someone reassure me that the Valley as an asset is safe from TJ / KC / MS getting their hands on it to get their money back that way ?
In many ways the piece, if true, should be seen as good news insofar as it suggests that there are potential buyers for the Club.
The owners now face a choice between continuing to fund losses at a level sufficient to retain Championship football, whilst trying to strike a deal at an inflated price, or cutting their losses and reducing the price. As I see it there is no alternative. Let's hope that ego or sheer bloody mindedness don't get in the way of a rational decision.
The problem is the longer they leave it, the greater the debts they incur/build up and therefore the greater the price they need.
A deal could be possible at the right price I presume.
I also presume that any interested parties would want a clean break from the current regime and do their own thing.
So it is about what would be reasonable for Tone and co to get their money back.
lets presume they don't want to lose any money (as all of us shareholders did when the club became private again), then that is two years at about £7mil per year. round it up to £15mil and they get out of the club with a decent drink in it for Tones crew.
Any interested parties could then buy Charlton for £15mil, and have to take on the liabilities of x amount.
If Tone and his crew are saying 'oh no, we want £40mil (a profit of £25mil for running and decimating things for a couple of years), and you can have the club plus it's debts', then they are playing hardball with our club and will eventually lose everything, as we will too.
The difference is that we will establish a CAFC 2013, do a deal with the administrators and the council for the Valley, and rebuild from the Kent league. Tone and his crew will simply have a £15mil hole in their bank account(s).
There is a deal to be done out there, but not if Tone plays silly buggers like he did with Villa.
Unless the owners move quickly in terms of a sale or securing additional investment then reducing losses through the occasional player sale might be the only way to keep going. Unless we are close to that second promotion is the deal price going to be significantly better than that which Richard Murray achieved?!
The higher the sale price the less the new owners have for future investment in the club. It seems very unlikely that are going to be able to sell the club in the first place, and with more money being poured in, I don't see how they are going to get their money back, will that increase the sale price further ? Investment in the club is limited and would take a miracle to achieve promotion.
If you were a potential investor, you would wait for the price to be more reasonable.