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Player trading patterns across the league

Well, it was ridiculously last minute, but I'm as relieved and pleased as anyone that we suddenly have a full and decent squad. So I would be interested to put it all in context. I haven't closely monitored who has been buying or otherwise. I'd be interested if those who have, could give their assessment. We all know about QPR, I read here that Watford have bought an entire squad, Forest splashing cash too, but Brum couldn't even look at that McGurk fella? Are there genuine signs that a lot of clubs without parachute money have looked as potless as we did up until today? Who has spent, who has notably not spent?

Comments

  • Thanks.

    Trouble is I don't know half of these players. Hard to judge from that who has really invested, other than bloody Watford.
  • Like you, I've not been following much of what business other teams have done.

    But is that the same Watford who not long ago had a transfer embargo put on them?
  • Like you, I've not been following much of what business other teams have done.

    But is that the same Watford who not long ago had a transfer embargo put on them?

    Yes the same Watford that got away scott free with very similar breaches to the rules that saw their neighbours deducted 25 points...

  • Like you, I've not been following much of what business other teams have done.

    But is that the same Watford who not long ago had a transfer embargo put on them?

    Yes that was discussed on another thread (I forget wish) with the usual intelligent input form super horns, a Watford fan who posts here. If I remember rightly, the excuse is that the embargo was under a previous regime. Equally stinky is that the same owners are allowed to own two (or is it three clubs) that is supposed to be against UEFA rules. We saw how these owners abuse it. Matej Vydra at Watford for heavens sake.

  • hiya prague

    for me, best business for value has been done by barnsley and by millwall

    especially impressed by flitcroft who has recruited well for peanuts.

    id actually say wood, gower, church and sordell, with no significant departures is also v good business. am hopeful of fuller as well. cameron stewart if we could get rid of a hollands/stephens or green would be an improvement IMHO.

  • Not sure we could count Fuller IF we resign him given that he was part of our squad last season
  • hiya prague

    for me, best business for value has been done by barnsley and by millwall

    especially impressed by flitcroft who has recruited well for peanuts.

    id actually say wood, gower, church and sordell, with no significant departures is also v good business. am hopeful of fuller as well. cameron stewart if we could get rid of a hollands/stephens or green would be an improvement IMHO.

    And have you seen signs of distress at other clubs - I mean an obvious failure to strengthen? Lee Clarke seemed to be bemoaning his situation at Brum. I'm actually asking this in order to allow due credit to the Board.
  • edited August 2013
    Each club is different some have parachute payments and are excused fair play regulations for one or more seasons, some have sugar daddies and some are in crisis.

    Barnsley, unknown
    Birmingham are in trouble, this was reported at the end of last season.
    Blackpool, not struggling yet but will do soon.
    Bolton, £110-160m in debt according to who reports it.
    Bournemouth, no immediate troubles but Russian owners can be a bit shady?
    Brighton, rich backer
    Burnley, have been able to sell players to pay the bills, no one left of any real value
    Charlton, your guess is as good as anyone's
    Derby unknown
    Doncaster, spent money
    Huddersfield, spent money, rich backer
    Ipswich, have money troubles but managed
    Leicester, Rich backer's
    Middlesbrough, Rich backer
    Millwall, in deep shit (I hope)
    Nottm Forest, Rich backer
    QPR, Rich backer + parachute payments
    Reading, Rich backer + parachute payments
    Sheff Wed, Rich backer but not much money being spent
    Watford, no allowable comment to make on them
    Wigan, Rich backer + parachute
    Yeovil, Sound

    I'm pretty sure others could make a better fist of that than I did.

  • edited August 2013
    @Loco - Isn't there news that Sheff Wednesday isn't doing as well as imagined? Milan Mandaric was publicly trying to get rid of the club back in July - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2375585/CHARLES-SALE-COLUMN-Sheffield-Wednesday-change-hands-Milan-Mandaric-ready-sell-Chinese-consortium.html

    I know that compared to us they've splashed a little bit of cash and made a few signings, but I think their rich backer is looking for a get out right now.

    Similarly, Middlesborough have a rich backer but they had to get rid of a few players didn't they? I'm sure they released more than Bailey.
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  • Loco

    Good stuff . Thanks. Of course it's not definitive, as you acknowledge, but great orientation. Then we get snippets like Lucky reds has posted and we can refine it as we go. You have missed out the circus which is Blackburn Rovers, but I fear some sense has been drummed into even their chicken brains
  • Loco

    Good stuff . Thanks. Of course it's not definitive, as you acknowledge, but great orientation. Then we get snippets like Lucky reds has posted and we can refine it as we go. You have missed out the circus which is Blackburn Rovers, but I fear some sense has been drummed into even their chicken brains

    Just to confirm; it was meant like Prague suggests - I wasn't trying to be pedantic or anything! Just a couple of snippets worth mulling over.

    What Loco posted actually gave me some food for thought! Combined with situations like Coventry, I think it's clear to see that the sport is on the brink of financial turmoil. It's nice to see a bigger picture just to get out of the "charlton bubble" a little!


  • edited August 2013
    As per your friendly CASTrust coverage of FFP by Mundell, yours truly (and others) the following clubs look to be way in excess of FFP limits going by their accounts of 12 months back: Ipswich, Leicester, Forest, Boro. Only four clubs but they are the type who have been paying big (silly?) money on players and will be kicked out of the transfer market in 18 months time unless they reduce their losses. I don't see any of them splashing the cash and, given one would expect that they would finish top half, this can only be good for us -more points from them and less competition :)

    To me the big question is whether we can make up the ground on Forest (who crushed us home and away) Leicester (6 points again please) and of course Watford... optimistic view (to be coloured in after 10 games) suggests top 6 is possible!

    Boro were in freefall at the end of last season - will it continue? Brighton - impossible to tell how they respond to play off experience (losing to Palace!) and new management... Hudds/Sheff Wed - weren't as classy as us two years back and still unable to catch up!... clubs coming down from the Prem - all depends on whether they stay in freefall (Wolves) or regroup slowly / quickly... personally I would tip Reading.

    Along with Bournemouth, I would look at three of Saturday's games to give an insight into how things might pan out ...
    Leeds vs Brighton
    Boro vs Leicester
    Reading vs Ipswich

    Now, despite what you read elsewhere on this site, CAFC finished on a high, have released several players and are looking at a new forward line (+ Yann) and reinforcements to an established squad... money appears tight but may well be found for loans AND January window signings if the Prem is a possibility
  • edited August 2013

    Like you, I've not been following much of what business other teams have done.

    But is that the same Watford who not long ago had a transfer embargo put on them?

    Yes that was discussed on another thread (I forget wish) with the usual intelligent input form super horns, a Watford fan who posts here. If I remember rightly, the excuse is that the embargo was under a previous regime. Equally stinky is that the same owners are allowed to own two (or is it three clubs) that is supposed to be against UEFA rules. We saw how these owners abuse it. Matej Vydra at Watford for heavens sake.

    They did seem to mainly blame Bassini personally as he was banned for 3 years but then he was always a dodgy character and its begs the question why he was allowed to take over in the first place - another example of the lack of ability to really test out the FL's "fit for purpose" rule...

    It was a bit unfortunate Luton were the ones to complain - being rivals our fans were never going to accept their claims.

    They probably were hard done by to lose so many points although think some was due to a double period of administration and issues with regard to paying agents illegally (maybe they just got caught doing it..)

    I accept it seems daft for the Football league to say we had a transfer embargo and then clearly not backing it up!

    I'd find that rather confusing as well.

    Mind you it took them 5 months to investigate the issue anyway and I am pretty sure had we not being pushing for promotion they would have docked points.



  • Loco said:

    Each club is different some have parachute payments and are excused fair play regulations for one or more seasons, some have sugar daddies and some are in crisis.


    Leicester, Rich back
    .

    Only got in one player so far this summer - preparing for FFP (if that works..) but still got a decent squad.

    I think Reading and Wigan have brought well.

    Probably a big season for Forest as they have spent a fair bit and with their owners Davies will be under pressure.

    You'll be top 10-12 at least I suspect - settled side and now got a goal scorer in Sordell
  • LuckyReds said:

    @Loco - Isn't there news that Sheff Wednesday isn't doing as well as imagined? Milan Mandaric was publicly trying to get rid of the club back in July - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2375585/CHARLES-SALE-COLUMN-Sheffield-Wednesday-change-hands-Milan-Mandaric-ready-sell-Chinese-consortium.html

    I know that compared to us they've splashed a little bit of cash and made a few signings, but I think their rich backer is looking for a get out right now.

    Similarly, Middlesborough have a rich backer but they had to get rid of a few players didn't they? I'm sure they released more than Bailey.

    I did know that but forgot all about it. I think that was his plan all along he bought in for £1 when in league one, has restructured the debts got them promoted and now wants to offload asap because the losses will eat into his profit. He is keeping them afloat though when they are mired in debt.

    I knew others would know more, I'll update it with all the comments if you like, I might even include Leeds this time.........nar! :)
  • Loco said:

    LuckyReds said:

    @Loco - Isn't there news that Sheff Wednesday isn't doing as well as imagined? Milan Mandaric was publicly trying to get rid of the club back in July - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2375585/CHARLES-SALE-COLUMN-Sheffield-Wednesday-change-hands-Milan-Mandaric-ready-sell-Chinese-consortium.html

    I know that compared to us they've splashed a little bit of cash and made a few signings, but I think their rich backer is looking for a get out right now.

    Similarly, Middlesborough have a rich backer but they had to get rid of a few players didn't they? I'm sure they released more than Bailey.

    I did know that but forgot all about it. I think that was his plan all along he bought in for £1 when in league one, has restructured the debts got them promoted and now wants to offload asap because the losses will eat into his profit. He is keeping them afloat though when they are mired in debt.

    I knew others would know more, I'll update it with all the comments if you like, I might even include Leeds this time.........nar! :)
    Personally would welcome it Loco, I'm learning a lot already.

    S-R (can't bring myself to address you as 'Seriously' :-)) Great stuff. So four clubs have put themselves under huge pressure to get of this league this year. And only three of them can do it. It's going to be another volatile league this season.

  • LuckyReds said:

    Loco

    Good stuff . Thanks. Of course it's not definitive, as you acknowledge, but great orientation. Then we get snippets like Lucky reds has posted and we can refine it as we go. You have missed out the circus which is Blackburn Rovers, but I fear some sense has been drummed into even their chicken brains

    Just to confirm; it was meant like Prague suggests - I wasn't trying to be pedantic or anything! Just a couple of snippets worth mulling over.

    What Loco posted actually gave me some food for thought! Combined with situations like Coventry, I think it's clear to see that the sport is on the brink of financial turmoil. It's nice to see a bigger picture just to get out of the "charlton bubble" a little!


    Well you'll be glad to know then, that I read it exactly as you intended it :)
  • Like you, I've not been following much of what business other teams have done.

    But is that the same Watford who not long ago had a transfer embargo put on them?

    Yes that was discussed on another thread (I forget wish) with the usual intelligent input form super horns, a Watford fan who posts here. If I remember rightly, the excuse is that the embargo was under a previous regime. Equally stinky is that the same owners are allowed to own two (or is it three clubs) that is supposed to be against UEFA rules. We saw how these owners abuse it. Matej Vydra at Watford for heavens sake.

    They did seem to mainly blame Bassini personally as he was banned for 3 years but then he was always a dodgy character and its begs the question why he was allowed to take over in the first place - another example of the lack of ability to really test out the FL's "fit for purpose" rule...

    It was a bit unfortunate Luton were the ones to complain - being rivals our fans were never going to accept their claims.

    They probably were hard done by to lose so many points although think some was due to a double period of administration and issues with regard to paying agents illegally (maybe they just got caught doing it..)

    I accept it seems daft for the Football league to say we had a transfer embargo and then clearly not backing it up!

    I'd find that rather confusing as well.

    Mind you it took them 5 months to investigate the issue anyway and I am pretty sure had we not being pushing for promotion they would have docked points.



    Super_horns

    Your ability to come on here and be so impartial about your own club, especially when tribal partisans like me are insulting it, is bloody admirable. From my POV, I hope you remain a regular here.

    One question: what is happening with Vydra this season? Am I right in thinking he stays with Udinese?


  • edited August 2013
    Well his agent seems very keen to get Vydra a move to the Premier league with a number of clubs apparently keen for him...

    Have to say apart from Deeney I am not totally sure where the goals will come from - might have to rely on the likes of Abdi again to chip in and your friend Fernando if he can stay up right.
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  • Well his agent seems very keen to get Vydra a move to the Premier league with a number of clubs apparently keen for him...

    I bloody hope so. I'm sure Zola wouldnt repeat the mistake of not starting him against us.

  • edited August 2013

    Loco said:

    LuckyReds said:

    @Loco - Isn't there news that Sheff Wednesday isn't doing as well as imagined? Milan Mandaric was publicly trying to get rid of the club back in July - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2375585/CHARLES-SALE-COLUMN-Sheffield-Wednesday-change-hands-Milan-Mandaric-ready-sell-Chinese-consortium.html

    I know that compared to us they've splashed a little bit of cash and made a few signings, but I think their rich backer is looking for a get out right now.

    Similarly, Middlesborough have a rich backer but they had to get rid of a few players didn't they? I'm sure they released more than Bailey.

    I did know that but forgot all about it. I think that was his plan all along he bought in for £1 when in league one, has restructured the debts got them promoted and now wants to offload asap because the losses will eat into his profit. He is keeping them afloat though when they are mired in debt.

    I knew others would know more, I'll update it with all the comments if you like, I might even include Leeds this time.........nar! :)
    Personally would welcome it Loco, I'm learning a lot already.

    S-R (can't bring myself to address you as 'Seriously' :-)) Great stuff. So four clubs have put themselves under huge pressure to get of this league this year. And only three of them can do it. It's going to be another volatile league this season.

    Tricky to guestimate their losses for last season and next but yes, those four clubs were losing £10-15m and need to get promoted or will be barred from signing players should their losses exceed £8M... player ins and outs are available but my comments are more based on having watched them last season... I can see Forest pushing on, Boro in trouble (hoping for a decent win next week!) Leicester 6th or 7th? Ipswich ? hard to tell.
    The thing is that apart from Watford, no club looks like it has thrown money around this summer.
    Meanwhile if Vydra fancies the Premier League he should pop down to SE7 and give us a hand?!
  • I haven't paid a great deal of attention to FFP for various reasons, but Iit is clear to me that you can't just look at operating losses and assume they tell you whether a club will fall foul of it.
  • Technically correct as operating losses excluding ground depreciation and academy costs appear to be the basis for FFP. No idea how much the Academy costs to run at CAFC or elsewhere but ground depreciation is c.£1m. And perhaps not much different elsewhere.
    The point is twofold in that the £8M permitted loss reduces each year and that £5m of the loss has to go in as equity...which is a different proposition to building up loans.
    So clubs losing £12-15M twelve months ago will need to adjust and that the implication is a fair bit of top end demand is taken out of the transfer market.
    Speculation but perhaps agents will need to fit a slot in the salary structure as opposed to saying "I have this great striker on £10 k a week and he's yours for 12"
  • It costs 2.5 million a year if you wanted to be a Cat A academy which we couldn't afford unfortunately.

    Not sure why we went right to Cat C though...
  • This site is out of date now and I don't know if an update is planned but it is still worth a look.

    http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/championship-finances-201112-numbers.html

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