So how much do you think it costs Nike to manufacture our new kit in the sweat shops of Asia?
Does anyone know which sweatshop country are making this years shirts.
I wonder what the monthly take home pay of those making this years shirt will be? Anyone know?
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And, of course, we would all be happy to pay £250 for an adult shirt and £225 for a shirt for our children. I mean, heaven forbid that these shirts should be made in countries where the standard of living is below that of Chelsea and Knightsbridge.
Seriously Absurdistan, do you want the whole world to have the same working attitude as those that we can't get off their ar$e$ in the UK? The massive shift in wealth that would occur if these type of operations were closed is unthinkable. We, in the Western World, would think we were back in the dark ages if all the global imbalance of wealth was addressed. There's probably almost nothing that we consume in this country that wouldn't become a luxury if we had to pay the same price to manufacture it as it costs in the Western World.
I can't say that I like the idea of some of the conditions that others live and/or work in, but the world is what it is and the majority of those that would have to vote for change would just not accept what they would be left with if they did.
Some images from the collapse of the clothing factory in Bangladesh:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bangladesh+factory+collapse&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=N1HAUbXFPMOg0wWE4YHgDw&ved=0CDwQsAQ&biw=1184&bih=598
Amongst the companies that sold garments manufactured in that building were Benetton, Walmart (Asda in the UK), Primark, Matalan and several others who sell their clothes on the UK High Street.
The death toll is over 1100 - what caused the collapse is unknown, but four extra stories were built on top of an existing factory despite a lack of planning consent and when cracks were discovered rather than vacate the building and repair the damage the owners kept their staff working.
It's ok though, we like cheap clothing in the west.
Yes, that's right!
With the exception of Benetton on that list you gave the companies tend to sell the cheaper clothing. It is not, at all, difficult to establish where clothes are made yet people fail to vote with their feet and refuse to buy the cheap clothes.
The same is true of everything else as well. The conditions that many people work in overseas producing the food we eat are horrendous, but you don't seem to see much demand for food with the labels that confirm that they are made in better conditions. From memory there was a TV program on this a couple of years ago and I think they compared a tin of Tuna. As is was it cost £1 yet if the conditions of the workers were improved (including their incomes) that tin became £6.
That Tuna does exist in some places but guess how many people are willing to drop £5 on each tin to 'help' those that make it?
should feel bad that the government in the country they were made in have such shit health and safety and building regs
My arse should they
I couldbt give 2 shits that building collapsed was a fault of the owner the council and the government not the british public
I fail to understand if nylon football shirts are sold for £50 why the workers' wages have to be so low and why they have to endure such terrible conditions. Somebody is making a massive profit.....
If we have to pay more for our food and clothing as a consequence of improved and safer working conditions then so be it.
It's like the suicides at the Foxconn plant that produced Apple hardware - of course Apple wouldn't ever be boycotted as that's right up the trendy/hipster avenue.. I say that typing on a MacBook, but I regularly go in to a workplace dominated by MacBooks and iPhones, and the building prides itself on "sustainable" everything, equal rights and fair trade etc.
The fact of the matter is, if you boycott these stores or manufacturers you create an even bigger shitstorm out there - the main source of income has gone for a large chunk of a population that need every penny. If you pay the price for brilliant conditions etc - then there's no point having the manufacturing done in other countries - I'd much rather see the work come back home and build a more sustainable model for our economy.
We live incredibly well compared to the locations that these goods are manufactured, but it's relative - and we still have people living on minuscule amounts, no work available and below the poverty line - if we sorted out our own economy we would probably have the power to make a difference out there. But we don't. Furthermore, whilst our own economy has such a large divide - we leave a lot of people with no choice but to go to buy products which are manufactured in shocking conditions and eat food gained through bad practice. I'd much rather pay extra for the conditions here to improve, in the hope that conditions elsewhere would also improve. Does that sound bad? Maybe.
So whats the solution? Boycott and ruin pretty shitty livelihoods by making them even worse? Perhaps not. Increase prices and make it more "sustainable" and encourage better conditions? What happens when the work dries up and goes somewhere even worse then? Or perhaps just comes back home? We're back to making shitty lives even shittier then..
If you want someone to blame then blame the governments of these countries; which often make our own government look like a beacon of transparency and ethical strength. Non existent, poor or ignored building regulations? Bad conditions for their citizens? They aren't your high street shoppers concern. Yes, it's good to remember these facts - but lets not get blinded by a false sense of empowerment that we can make a difference.
Do I think this is good? No. Am I happy saying this? No, mildly ashamed to put it bluntly. Do I think it's a realistic view btw? Yes.
Just to re-iterate; I'm not defending the business practices of those involved. I'm simply saying the business essentially have everyone held to ransom. It's terrible and sad to think we enjoy our £50 football shirts, sipping a £4 pint after paying £300 for a season ticket and going out for £20 curry after whilst this is going on at the other end of the chain.. I just don't think it's a simple issue that can be fixed by simply boycotting or anything; something fundamental needs to happen at the lower end of the chain too.
Just checked a couple of websites and the identical (new) shirt would cost approx £20 if you bought a full team's worth. Other than the tiny additional cost of adding the CAFC emblem and the sponsor's name, the rest is pure profit for the club.
So your solution is to do wring your hands and essentially do nothing?
At what point does the retailer wash their hands of responsibility for conditions at the plants of their contractors? I'd imagine that there are plenty of alternatives open for Apple rather than use Foxconn. It might mean that they'd make a bit less than the US$8.8bn they made in one quarter alone last year:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/07/24Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html
So from my perspective this isn't about companies surviving, but profiteering by squeezing every last ounce of profit that they can. The end result is that contractors are having to cut corners and their overheads to stay competitive which means that they end up employing overstressed workers who are being driven to work even harder and longer hours and that appears to have resulted in a high suicide rate at Foxconn. Perhaps they could chuck a couple of extra dollars onto the price of an ipad, or maybe just accept that only making $8.7bn profit per quarter is perfectly acceptable if it means that the people making their kit are being paid/treated better? The problem is the profit motive.
In the recent Bangladesh fire workers in some of the clothing factory units were told to go back to work despite orders to shut the entire complex down. Those workers who refused were threatened with the sack. This was by no means the only recent tragedy in Bangladesh - in November last year another clothing factory burnt down killing over 100 people.
If we don't put pressure on both the manufacturers and the governments of these places to enforce stricter rules then nothing will improve. The retailers though have a responsibility to ensure that conditions inside the plants that they award contracts to meet a reasonable standard, they cannot wash their hands of any responsibility here.
We "outsourced" the retail to Just Sport.
Don't know what our deal was but at other clubs the deal was 25% of the gross so £10 per shirt on a £40 shirt.
But even if we were selling on the shirts bought for £20 each ourselves you would still have to add the cost of sales (staff wages, rent/rates, electricity, unsold stock, returns etc) so not pure profit.
Plus you'd need to factor in that these are probably the only items of clothing that the club makes regular/decent profits on. I doubt that the club makes that much money from the non-replica clothes and other stuff that they sell in the superstore.
The alternative is to create your own manufacturing facilities. For Apple to do that in the US (or Europe) would be prohibitively expensive, and if they set up in the Far East they're not going to pay massively over the odds salary-wise, so all they are doing is spending out huge amounts of money to put themselves in a worse position than if they'd just gone with an existing manufacturer.
Now what they can do is put pressure on FoxConn to improve conditions and salaries, but that is a slow process at best.
I don't really mind where stuff is made although I do try to buy British products where possible. I just won't buy something like the Charlton shirt which is marketed as some sort of high-tech material with a "Dri-fit cooling system" when it is actually just cheap recycled polyester - not even new polyester!
Not sure why someone in Bangladesh who breaks buidling regulations and local laws is my responsibilty.
What next, the companies in Asia not taking contracts from the UK as they believe the cost of housing to wages is unfair in this country or that we dont enforce a living wage policy over here.
Shall I stop buying petrol until I can see a photo showing there is no harm to the environment in the locale the petroleum is extracted?
Who will pay the benefits of all the people who lose their jobs over here as everything is 100% more expensive?
Where did I say it was?
Who will pay the benefits of all the people who lose their jobs over here as everything is 100% more expensive?
Do you have children? Would you be happy if they were working in those conditions? Would you work in one of those factories? Let's say your boss told you that you that if you failed to come to work tomorrow because someone had decided that your office was structurally unsafe and in imminent danger of falling down that you'd get sacked what would your response be? Somehow I doubt that you'd be quite as dismissive.
A few years ago Burberry closed down a factory in South Wales and shifted production to somewhere cheaper. Although that factory was profitable, they realised that they could make more profit elsewhere. Guess who pays the benefits for all those who lost their jobs there?
In the UK we went through this debate some time ago and the same arguments were wheeled out - fewer working hours/age restrictions would make things more expensive etc. Strangely once working hours legislation was introduced and safer working conditions were insisted on things did not go to hell. The same will be the case with Asian sweatshops. Ignoring the working conditions in these places might allow the retailers to make more profit, but it is not ethical. If we highlight the problem and put pressure on those who are profiteering out of these places then we can do our bit, the longest journey starts with a small step. Or we can have a race to the bottom - where the only thing that matters is how much profit is made. As I say above - when Apple are churning nigh on US$9bn a quarter in profit they have few excuses for their workers being treated poorly.
*retreats back to the Countdown thread.
To summarise the points in bold above:
1 - Companies are acting irresponsibly....
2 - ...for profit.
3 - In Bangladesh the issue was known about yet regulations were flouted and workers were essentially murdered by those in charge...
4 - ...and we really need to put pressure on those who make those decisions (i.e the manufacturers and governments).
Now if you just have another quick skim of my post you'll see these are all issues I agree with, and think they are the most important issues to deal with.
I did suggest something similar at the fans forum a few weeks back, as a way of inducing/rewarding Charlton fans from our shop.
I appreciate the shop may be independent, and the club may have to support this, although I am sure there could have been some discussion with Nike, as this benefits the shop, the supplier, and supports the sponser.
The more expensive people price their labour at (wages, working conditions etc.) the fewer jobs they will be offered.
If Asia changes it's attitudes the manufactures will just go elsewhere and as much as some on here would like to believe that in the end the whole world will demand the same working conditions as the UK, the truth is that all the time people have starving children to feed they will work for as little as they need to to survive.
We need to remember that (as of 2006) the wealthiest 10% of the world population own 85% of the worlds wealth. Unless we are (as a group of nations) willing to, literally, give away 75 85ths of our wealth there is always going to be a country that is so much poorer that they will make the goods that we want cheap in what ever conditions are offered to them because the alternative is that they will be hungry and/or burying their families that starve to death.
If, as has been mentioned already, they manage to get most of the rest of the world to make it as expensive to manufacture as it is in the UK they will, literally, all close down as it is cheaper to ship, say, football shirts from Essex to Charlton than it is to ship them from Asia.
There is just no way that these countries can survive unless that make cheap goods. There is not enough wealth in the world to buy their goods at the price they would need to charge to offer the working conditions that many on here don't like.
They just can't win!
Nor would you over load a train and climb on the roof and ride it to your next location