Would love to see this turned in to a standing terrace, with so many teams interested in making safe standing areas I really hope we can to, would improve the atmosphere and also improve the overall capacity
1. It would cost money the club haven't got to do the conversion. 2. Existing seated season ticket holders would have to be moved and wouldn't like it. 3. The standers would expect a cheaper ticket price, so it would cost the club income. 4. We don't need extra capacity - we don't fill what we have. 5. It's illegal.
I agree with having an area of safe standing but the problem with the north lower is you have to charge the away fans the same price so a reduction in ticket price here causes a massive reduction in match day income from tickets sold in the jimmy seed stand.
1. It would cost money the club haven't got to do the conversion. 2. Existing seated season ticket holders would have to be moved and wouldn't like it. 3. The standers would expect a cheaper ticket price, so it would cost the club income. 4. We don't need extra capacity - we don't fill what we have. 5. It's illegal.
As said above. This is a subject that always pops up every few months and in my opinion it wont revert to standing simply because no politician would want to champion it. Imagine the consequences should something happen in the future (like a mini Hillsborough) it would all come back to haunt him/her.
By limiting the standing to 6 or 8 rows, no mini Hillsborough will ever happen. Would be nice to have those rows on all four stands, with a preference for the upper part. Not convinced it would be a big loss in revenue, not in the long run at least.
1. It would cost money the club haven't got to do the conversion. 2. Existing seated season ticket holders would have to be moved and wouldn't like it. 3. The standers would expect a cheaper ticket price, so it would cost the club income. 4. We don't need extra capacity - we don't fill what we have. 5. It's illegal.
I believe point 1 is not a huge issue (although should be borne in mind) as the cost of converting a small area isn't massive depending on the configuration and can be written off over a number of years.
Point 3 & 4 are what it's all about for us as a club. You'd need to ensure that you improved the overall capacity (I.e not just people moving from other areas of the ground to the cheaper standing area) by 2 or 3k which I just can't see happening. You'd also have to find a new area for away fans or likely take a hit on the revenue again.
I like the idea in principle but financially it just doesn't stack up for us right now, hopefully one day.
1. It would cost money the club haven't got to do the conversion. 2. Existing seated season ticket holders would have to be moved and wouldn't like it. 3. The standers would expect a cheaper ticket price, so it would cost the club income. 4. We don't need extra capacity - we don't fill what we have. 5. It's illegal.
I believe point 1 is not a huge issue (although should be borne in mind) as the cost of converting a small area isn't massive depending on the configuration and can be written off over a number of years.
Point 3 & 4 are what it's all about for us as a club. You'd need to ensure that you improved the overall capacity (I.e not just people moving from other areas of the ground to the cheaper standing area) by 2 or 3k which I just can't see happening. You'd also have to find a new area for away fans or likely take a hit on the revenue again.
I like the idea in principle but financially it just doesn't stack up for us right now, hopefully one day.
But a 5-year write-down of capital expenditure in the books is neither here nor there - you still have to have the actual folding stuff to pay the contractors!
1. It would cost money the club haven't got to do the conversion. 2. Existing seated season ticket holders would have to be moved and wouldn't like it. 3. The standers would expect a cheaper ticket price, so it would cost the club income. 4. We don't need extra capacity - we don't fill what we have. 5. It's illegal.
I believe point 1 is not a huge issue (although should be borne in mind) as the cost of converting a small area isn't massive depending on the configuration and can be written off over a number of years.
Point 3 & 4 are what it's all about for us as a club. You'd need to ensure that you improved the overall capacity (I.e not just people moving from other areas of the ground to the cheaper standing area) by 2 or 3k which I just can't see happening. You'd also have to find a new area for away fans or likely take a hit on the revenue again.
I like the idea in principle but financially it just doesn't stack up for us right now, hopefully one day.
But a 5-year write-down of capital expenditure in the books is neither here nor there - you still have to have the actual folding stuff to pay the contractors!
True, but if the business case stacks up you can finance it.
1. The cost would simply be to remove the seats, etc. There would be no requirement to change the terrace in any significant way. 2. Some existing season ticket holders may want to sit, but many others do not (evidence is those who stand now anyway...) , and some may wish to retain their Lower North place behind the goal but standing. Others may move to the upper tier, and be replaced by those moving down to the lower tier? 3. I would suggest that season ticket prices for this area remain the same as the rest of the North stand; this premium for the right to stand would be welcomed by some (and may even encourage additional season ticket sales?). 4. The capacity for the Lower North would remain as now, or whatever "safe standing" allows for that space, thereby preventing over-capacity issues (or any likelihood of issues). In addition, by limiting the fans allowed into this area to season ticket holders only (thus controlling numbers even more closely), there is no cost implication for the away fans (or the club), who would continue to pay the equivalent price for a behind the goal seat (as per Upper North). 5 Yes, it is not allowed now, but it could be if it was thought out and managed correctly in the future.
Safe standing is possible, and does happen now at many (lower) league grounds. The North Lower is a prime example of an area where safe standing could happen, if it was controlled and managed properly. With season ticket holders only allowed onto the terrace, the likelihood for any crowd disorder is diminished vastly.
I would welcome its return, even though I would not use the area myself as I like my seat too much.
The Lower North and Jimmy Seed both have inferior rakes to the newer parts of the ground, so both would work better as terraces than seated areas. No reason to charge less for the LN, it's the cheapest parts of the ground anyway, and people who want to stand aren't doing so because they want cheaper entrance.
It's academic anyway, unless the law changes or we are permanently out of the top 2 divisions...
Only for STs. For match tickets it is the most expensive as, as said, it has to match whatever is charged for the Jimmy South Stand. We can only charge away fans a like for like price for similar views.
1. The cost would simply be to remove the seats, etc. There would be no requirement to change the terrace in any significant way.
No quite, you would have to remove the seats, repair the footings for the seats and erect barriers.
Those barriers are unlikely to be the old style barriers dotted across the terrace but rather barriers stretching the length of the terrace and every two, or even one, steps ala Germany.
Regardless it is a cost. Would be interesting to know how much as maybe it is something fans could contribute to.
The big issue remains that we can't get a license to hold games if we don't have an all seater stadium. Until those rules change we are stuck.
The way forward would be, IMHO, for Charlton to offer to pilot new safe standing similar to Germany for , say, three seasons. If it works in terms of safety then it could be rolled out to other clubs who want to do it.
It would surely need to be a move that would increase the capacity at the Valley, or I don't see how it would make sense for the club to do it if the regulations changed.
1. It would cost money the club haven't got to do the conversion. 2. Existing seated season ticket holders would have to be moved and wouldn't like it. 3. The standers would expect a cheaper ticket price, so it would cost the club income. 4. We don't need extra capacity - we don't fill what we have. 5. It's illegal.
I believe point 1 is not a huge issue (although should be borne in mind) as the cost of converting a small area isn't massive depending on the configuration and can be written off over a number of years.
Point 3 & 4 are what it's all about for us as a club. You'd need to ensure that you improved the overall capacity (I.e not just people moving from other areas of the ground to the cheaper standing area) by 2 or 3k which I just can't see happening. You'd also have to find a new area for away fans or likely take a hit on the revenue again.
I like the idea in principle but financially it just doesn't stack up for us right now, hopefully one day.
But a 5-year write-down of capital expenditure in the books is neither here nor there - you still have to have the actual folding stuff to pay the contractors!
True, but if the business case stacks up you can finance it.
Great idea - let's "finance" it.
The good thing about "Finance" is that it's free and you never have to pay anything back. Well, that's what my cousin Gjidi from Lagos told me anyway.
Something Needs to be done. The atmosphere at the valley and every else in the country is non existent.
Which has nothing what-so-ever to do with standing or sitting. I have been to European games with seats, running tracks, fences and no stands at the ends which have a better atmosphere than many UK clubs. Standing does not make atmosphere, fans do.
Not a chance in hell will this happen, the costs are a lot for little to no gain, there will be many people who sit in the NL unwilling to move to other parts of the ground, or who cannot stand for the full 90 and will want a seat at all times. The government as a whole is dead against it, and it is very difficult to regulate properly unless everything is fenced and barriered off like a prison.
Would love standing - personally find the seats to be cramped and uncomfortable.
This wont happen though due to money. I can't think of a profitable way a club with an all seater stadium can change the infrastructure for standing...
It makes financial sense to stay all seater - especially with the amount of debt a lot of clubs have...
Something Needs to be done. The atmosphere at the valley and every else in the country is non existent.
Which has nothing what-so-ever to do with standing or sitting. I have been to European games with seats, running tracks, fences and no stands at the ends which have a better atmosphere than many UK clubs. Standing does not make atmosphere, fans do.
Sorry didn't realise you went to European games. You must know everything. What else can you tell us o lord of European football as no one has ever been a spectator outside of england on this site?
Hello kettle you're looking a little black. Given your sweeping generalisation about the whole of English football atmospheres I hardly think you are in a position to slame what it a perfectly valid contribution. Now collect up your toys and get back in your pram.
Something Needs to be done. The atmosphere at the valley and every else in the country is non existent.
Which has nothing what-so-ever to do with standing or sitting. I have been to European games with seats, running tracks, fences and no stands at the ends which have a better atmosphere than many UK clubs. Standing does not make atmosphere, fans do.
Sorry didn't realise you went to European games. You must know everything. What else can you tell us o lord of European football as no one has ever been a spectator outsi de of england on this site?
Hello kettle you're looking a little black. Given your sweeping generalisation about the whole of English football atmospheres I hardly think you are in a position to slame what it a perfectly valid contribution. Now collect up your toys and get back in your pram. Just seen this. Please ignore that post.
Put away supporters in East stand towards the end and we make jimmy seed standing. = Better atmostphere, dont have to worry about away fans paying same as north upper.
Only issue is as Henry says need a license/law to confirm we can hold games and also the cost side of things but i think it could work in the future.
Something Needs to be done. The atmosphere at the valley and every else in the country is non existent.
Which has nothing what-so-ever to do with standing or sitting. I have been to European games with seats, running tracks, fences and no stands at the ends which have a better atmosphere than many UK clubs. Standing does not make atmosphere, fans do.
Usual fail. It's obvious to any intelligent person that an individual are better able to sing, shout & jump up and down etc, if they are standing as opposed to sitting.
Comments
2. Existing seated season ticket holders would have to be moved and wouldn't like it.
3. The standers would expect a cheaper ticket price, so it would cost the club income.
4. We don't need extra capacity - we don't fill what we have.
5. It's illegal.
Would be nice to have those rows on all four stands, with a preference for the upper part.
Not convinced it would be a big loss in revenue, not in the long run at least.
Point 3 & 4 are what it's all about for us as a club. You'd need to ensure that you improved the overall capacity (I.e not just people moving from other areas of the ground to the cheaper standing area) by 2 or 3k which I just can't see happening. You'd also have to find a new area for away fans or likely take a hit on the revenue again.
I like the idea in principle but financially it just doesn't stack up for us right now, hopefully one day.
Sorry if the reality of the situation is boring !
2. Some existing season ticket holders may want to sit, but many others do not (evidence is those who stand now anyway...) , and some may wish to retain their Lower North place behind the goal but standing. Others may move to the upper tier, and be replaced by those moving down to the lower tier?
3. I would suggest that season ticket prices for this area remain the same as the rest of the North stand; this premium for the right to stand would be welcomed by some (and may even encourage additional season ticket sales?).
4. The capacity for the Lower North would remain as now, or whatever "safe standing" allows for that space, thereby preventing over-capacity issues (or any likelihood of issues). In addition, by limiting the fans allowed into this area to season ticket holders only (thus controlling numbers even more closely), there is no cost implication for the away fans (or the club), who would continue to pay the equivalent price for a behind the goal seat (as per Upper North).
5 Yes, it is not allowed now, but it could be if it was thought out and managed correctly in the future.
Safe standing is possible, and does happen now at many (lower) league grounds. The North Lower is a prime example of an area where safe standing could happen, if it was controlled and managed properly. With season ticket holders only allowed onto the terrace, the likelihood for any crowd disorder is diminished vastly.
I would welcome its return, even though I would not use the area myself as I like my seat too much.
It's academic anyway, unless the law changes or we are permanently out of the top 2 divisions...
Those barriers are unlikely to be the old style barriers dotted across the terrace but rather barriers stretching the length of the terrace and every two, or even one, steps ala Germany.
Regardless it is a cost. Would be interesting to know how much as maybe it is something fans could contribute to.
The big issue remains that we can't get a license to hold games if we don't have an all seater stadium. Until those rules change we are stuck.
The way forward would be, IMHO, for Charlton to offer to pilot new safe standing similar to Germany for , say, three seasons. If it works in terms of safety then it could be rolled out to other clubs who want to do it.
The good thing about "Finance" is that it's free and you never have to pay anything back. Well, that's what my cousin Gjidi from Lagos told me anyway.
Pipedream
This wont happen though due to money. I can't think of a profitable way a club with an all seater stadium can change the infrastructure for standing...
It makes financial sense to stay all seater - especially with the amount of debt a lot of clubs have...
Hello kettle you're looking a little black.
Given your sweeping generalisation about the whole of English football atmospheres I hardly think you are in a position to slame what it a perfectly valid contribution.
Now collect up your toys and get back in your pram.
Given your sweeping generalisation about the whole of English football atmospheres I hardly think you are in a position to slame what it a perfectly valid contribution.
Now collect up your toys and get back in your pram.
Just seen this.
Please ignore that post.
Only issue is as Henry says need a license/law to confirm we can hold games and also the cost side of things but i think it could work in the future.