having just quizzed someone very intimately involved with the charlton set-up, i've been told that dowie was sacked for lying about set-pieces - apparently he was asked by the board why our set-pieces were so bad, and replied that they were down to les reed. when the board questioned reed, he said that he wished he'd had some involvement with them,but dowie wouldn't let him anywhere near them. just how much this had to do with the sacking is obviously up for debate,but my source is adamant that dowie's lying to the board over this issue was pivotal. in addition, i was told that the stories about the newcastle jogging and wigan family visits were also true.
this source also said that billy davies was our first choice, but actually it was his agent's demands for a bigger wage that scuppered the deal, not his objection to our new management structure.
apparently kinsella has been taking a pretty prominent role in terms of geeing up the team since, and apparently only left us because a doctor told him his knees were buggered and that he couldnt play for much longer.when villa dangled a million our way, he accepted the deal. what a great!
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I really do not know why you have to post something like this now. We have moved on from all that. The past is the past.
Ian Dowie is doing an excellent job at Coventry, who knows what would have happened with us if he'd been given a) His own staff from the start and b) A little more time.
No one, I repeat NO ONE could argue that the players were not behind him. Unfortunately the board were not. Maybe his was a panic appointment after the likes of Taylor and Davies had turned us down. Will we ever know the truth?
The facts are that the board DID like Les Reed, he was just not up to it, there IS evidence that the players didn't respond to him.
IMHO, the board had had it so bloody easy for so long that they were not actually experienced enough to appoint the right successor to Curbs. I reckon Dowie would have done OK in the end but he was not the "Yes man" that they thought they'd employed.
As I said this is all history and it has transpired that we have now got a fantastic Manager in AP. I wanted him as a replacement for Curbs years ago!
Let's just let the Dowie/Reed chapter go and support our team to the survival I know we can achieve.
Nice bit's about Kins as well!
Some interesting points...I think Dowie was sacked for a number of reasons, not for any one reason, choose from: poor results, defensively we were a shambles, ill advised purchases, that were also very costly, a lack of direction on the pitch (we really needed a ball winner in midfield), poor communication skills and I suspect a poor working relationship with Les Reed and the directors. Add in some of the others things as well - getting lost on the pre-Newcastle walkabout etc. But I'm sure if we'd had a couple more results go our way during Dowie's brief reign he'd still be here now.
It seems to be widely accepted that Billy Davies was offered the job of replacing Curbs. I can't think that his wage demands would have been that outrageous that Charlton would have been unable to meet them, or that Derby are now paying him more than he'd have got off us. I suspect the high wage demands were a negotiating tactic on his behalf, but who knows, certainly if your source is to be believed and why not maybe Davies thought with no other serious candidates that he could ask for whatever salary he liked.
As for Kin's knees...I think this was widely known at the time and confirmed later, Villa I think took a gamble on Kinsella hoping that he'd be a McGrath, producing great displays while hardly being fit. That was why he went for £1m and not the £2 -3m plus that a player with considerable Premiership and international experience was worth. Only Villa fans will tell you whether their gamble paid off or not.
If only Pardew was avaliable immediatley it could have been a whole different story.
cor, frankie, tell us something we didn't know. I don't think their is anyone in football who doesn't know that Davies was our first choice and turned it down for financial reasons. Oh, btw, Villa were aware of Kins dodgy knees but were still happy to proceed with the deal. Please come back when you've something interesting to say. Oh, in case you pop back later to tell us, then yes we do know the Titanic has sunk.
Anyway, its all history now and he probably made a smart move in avoiding the job given that Curbs hangover effect that was always going to hit the new manager.
He also seems to be doing really well at Derby so its turned out great for him.
Welcome frankie, as Brighton suggests, your info is as welcome as the next members'.
very unwelcoming to a new poster. He probably wont come back.
welcome to the site frankie, and agree with all you reply.
As for the Dowie thing, as others have insinuated it appears to have been a combination of factors, with the most telling two being we were bottom of the league and he wasn't holding a good relationship with the top level of the club. All the other 'incidents' are mere side issues, barring the going home before the Wigan game which was a bit out of order.
The bottom line i think is he was the wrong fit for the wrong club. The chairman was looking for a way out and jumped on the excuses he could find. In hindsight, and in long-term, i believe he was right to do so. Dowie would never of been right long-term for us.
Dowie is an impact manager, but to have an impact he has to have every member of his squad and staff on board and ready to follow him into war. He wants to be a leader, a general, and has the strong character and the quote book to back it up. But at the very top level, players need more than that sometimes to respond, the rallying cry's will work well at lower level, but you also need more guille in the Premiership. He really wasn't helped by a poor start and tough fixtures, which made a bit of a mockery of the strong leadership approach. Coverntry is a good fit for him.
He (or possibly other parts of the club) brought in 5 players for a lot of money and basically told the rest of the squad they weren't up to it - including telling Darren Bent he should score more against top 4 clubs - through the papers!!!
He basically took a mid table first X1 which we all knew had problems up front and in central midfield and performed even worse. It's not as if Pardew has spent a fortune (just recalled him from loan for a week!) but he has brought in Thatcher for Traore and Song / ZZ for Hughes/Kish /Faye
I backed Dowie at the time but the bottom line was that if we had beaten Watford at home and Fulham away we wouldn't be planning the great escape now. Having said all that the football , at the beginning of the season and now has been a million more times entertaining than the previous years so perhaps the club will have finally succeeded in stopping the churning on the season tickets (some 2,000 a year I recall)
The point above is that Premier league teams need more than ranting / galvanizing etc. - they need steel and subtlety / ruthlesness in the mgt. - first two things Pardew said were to the press "I'm a manager" (not head coach) and to the squad "I' m your third coach this year - you ain't getting any more!" whereas Dowie was more interested in quoting from MBA / team building manuals
Again it is proved that is no place for the nice guy in football.
Have to say i think that is harsh.
More just really of a man taking on a job that was beyond him.
DJDD- Agree about " no place for the nice guy in football" especially at this level.
Frankie-- Welcome!
AFKA- spot on re Dowie, they need the sort of hands on man who picks the balls up at the end of the training/warm up session etc. I hope Dowie suceeds there.
not our manager anymore & who are Coventry anyhoo
c'mon you reds!