Really like Dale. Most of the games I saw him play this season involved hardly any of the nice passing witnessed in recent weeks.Was this due to him or a shift in tactics? Gower was excellent at buzzing around and playing triangles last Sat whilst other players broke into positions. If Dale did more of this (would rely on the back 4 passing to him/him moving more) or played alongside Gower, I reckon he'd shine.
Looks like I'm well in the minority of those who who think he could be a top player in this league given a bit more consistency.
Can't think of a CAFC player for ages who can match Stephen's vision and range of passes.
Agree with this, big fan is Stephens. Think he needs the right management and a bit of confidence.
I know I'm getting boring but he needs the right player alongside him, without that he will be unable to realise his potential IMO.
Agreed ...... but there is something about Stephens, that seems to be missing.
There should be a good player in there. He has decent technical ability, neat and tidy, and given time can pick a pass and has a thunderous shot.
Yet he will go sideways or backwards with much of his passing, playing team mates into trouble and too often gets caught in possession himself in dangerous areas.
He seems sometimes slow to see a situation or to take advantage of it. Maybe he just doesn't read the game quickly enough, often enough?
Speed of thought could well be part of his problem.
Quality players always look like they have time on the ball and are unhurried but not because they are taking longer on the ball than other players, quite the opposite - it's because they've read where the space will be, filled it and already know what they are going to do next once they receive the ball. Kermorgant's ability to drop into space and play clever one and two touch passes/flicks is a prime example of this. He looks like he has time on the ball, even though he's being closed down as quickly as anyone else, because he has already done what he needs to do by the time the defender has closed him down.
Very difficult to teach that sort of thing I would imagine. You should get a bit better as a player with experience, but fundamentally you're either quick witted or you aren't.
On one hand he has good technical ability, an eye for a defence splitting pass and a blistering strike. On the other, he can go missing in games and shirks the occasional challenge, leading people to think he isn't "on the journey".
I agree with Henry, we will see the best of Stephens when he plays along side Hughes/(Gower?), for that to happen Stephens needs to overtake Jackson in the pecking order, after the season Jackson has just had I can't see that happening for the foreseeable future.
He's a good player, but we can't build a team around him. You can't drop Hughes for a player that does not play that position naturally. If you put Stephens in the attacking role then you have to move Jackson wide left; that is hardly fair on Harriott, who has been a revelation.
There doesn't seem to be a place in our first choice starting eleven unfortunately, and even more so if we sign Gower permanently over the summer.
Never heard so many excuses for a player who has, well Lets be honest, been poor in far too many games.
Never seen such a wide spread yet flimsy argument before.
If he had been playing well then he would be playing. He has been dropped and we have looked far more dangerous going forward and organised in midfield without him.
We can not risk a developing player in such an important position and i think cp realises that now.
If he can not fit in to our way if playing then he becomes a liability. He may well develop elsewhere but unlike last year we might not be the right club for him and vice versa in a strategic sense.
Never heard so many excuses for a player who has, well Lets be honest, been poor in far too many games.
Never seen such a wide spread yet flimsy argument before.
If he had been playing well then he would be playing. He has been dropped and we have looked far more dangerous going forward and organised in midfield without him.
We can not risk a developing player in such an important position and i think cp realises that now.
If he can not fit in to our way if playing then he becomes a liability. He may well develop elsewhere but unlike last year we might not be the right club for him and vice versa in a strategic sense.
Are you saying that the argument of not playing in his best position is flimsy? Let's play Hughes in the more forward Jackson role and see how he copes. He wouldn't be half as effective.
Well he's not the latter, I think we do know that. That's why he's been dropped right? I based my point on that.
He's played well in a midfield five this season though, Leicester away springs to mind, he played well there.
When has he played the attacking role, I'm not sure what fixtures he's done that in. Give me a fixture and I'll rack my brains. The only time I fully remember him doing that is when him and Hollands swapped for the Watford game at home, not a bad ball to Fuller was it?
Stephens has divided opinion on here for some time and a lot of lifers who were prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt have lost patience with him. But is he as bad as some are making out because my take on some of the criticism in this thread has him edging towards the 'useless get rid category'. If you look at the players marks stats there are four players for the season up to and including the Boro game below him, Green, Haynes, Kerkar and Hollands. His average mark was 6.51 compared to captain fantastic Jacko's 6.59. So please let's keep things in perspective. There is a player in there and I hope he can fulfil his potential with us.
I agree he played well in a five but life is easier for a player of his qualities as he has more options. That was my point with him not being suited tactically as it seems if we are to improve and we did When we switched to 4-4-2 in the last 8 games apart from Brighton and cardiff.
I don't want to get too down on him but i don't feel he is a right fit for CAFC.
It not so much him playing in an offensive role but when he Gets forward he can't pick a simple pass let alone a defence splitter which is the reason why he is in a defensive role.
Come on, you can't give praise on a player but follow it up with "yeh but it's easier that way". Just accept he played well. There's no need for an aside. We're supporters, let's support the players.
I may be missing the point, please tell me if I am, but surely you can't judge a player until you've seen him in his best position. Also you mention the 4-4-2, but Stephens hasn't been given the opportunity play in that formation, along with those same players; mainly Hughes and Harriott that Jackson has had the luxury to feed off.
I personally feel that the "can't pick a simple pass" comment is flimsy and widespread also. The only game I can remember him mis laying passes regularly this season was Forest at home ... the whole team were hardly stringing them together though!
Also you say, as if it is even more absurd, that he would be able to pull off a defence splitting pass. But as afore mentioned, Watford wasn't too bad and if this isn't defence splitting I don't know what is: ...
The fact you remember all the passes he has made like the bury and watford tells you how few and far between they are compared to the many he tries.
If you haven't seen Dale Stephens give the ball away consistently then we haven't been watching the same Dale Stephens. Its not fair showing videos of his Best moments as they don't have " Dale Stephens gives the ball away 4 times in 6 minutes" on you tube. If there was then there would be lots if them.
Your 'lets support the players' comment would be correct at the valley but Charlton life would be boring if we couldn't express différent opinions which we clearly have on this player.
He has a tendency to hold off on the simple pass looking for a better one, but then takes too long, tries to turn and gets robbed, often far too near our back four and allowing the opposition a run on them. Infuriating. If he could cut that out then it would help
In fairness, I was in France for the Ipswich game skiing! Was on a chairlift when I got the text saying we were 2-0 down. I thought I'd rather be here than at The Valley!
In fairness, I was in France for the Ipswich game skiing! Was on a chairlift when I got the text saying we were 2-0 down. I thought I'd rather be here than at The Valley!
I think most People wanted to be some where else that day.
He's one of those players that I just know if we get rid of him he is going to come back and prove us all wrong and fulfill the talent he clearly does have somewhere inside him!
I like Dale. I think that he would or will be a great player. Sadly, it won't be with us. The posts above are pretty much spot on for me - he needs a strong defensive midfielder playing behind him to do all his fetching and carrying. I think the comparisons with Murphy are bang on the money. In the half season Murphy played well for us, it was because he wasn't expected to do any of the grunt work of the sort that Hughes and similar players do.Jackson is our creative presence and, whilst he can't pick a pass like Dale can, he is far more adept at getting into goalscoring positions, and not as much of a liability defensively.
You know where would be a great fit for him? Swansea.
Comments
Mmmm what other ammo? Doesnt turn up to bromley addicks lol
Quality players always look like they have time on the ball and are unhurried but not because they are taking longer on the ball than other players, quite the opposite - it's because they've read where the space will be, filled it and already know what they are going to do next once they receive the ball. Kermorgant's ability to drop into space and play clever one and two touch passes/flicks is a prime example of this. He looks like he has time on the ball, even though he's being closed down as quickly as anyone else, because he has already done what he needs to do by the time the defender has closed him down.
Very difficult to teach that sort of thing I would imagine. You should get a bit better as a player with experience, but fundamentally you're either quick witted or you aren't.
Jackson is the best midfielder we have,bar none.
On one hand he has good technical ability, an eye for a defence splitting pass and a blistering strike. On the other, he can go missing in games and shirks the occasional challenge, leading people to think he isn't "on the journey".
I agree with Henry, we will see the best of Stephens when he plays along side Hughes/(Gower?), for that to happen Stephens needs to overtake Jackson in the pecking order, after the season Jackson has just had I can't see that happening for the foreseeable future.
He's a good player, but we can't build a team around him. You can't drop Hughes for a player that does not play that position naturally. If you put Stephens in the attacking role then you have to move Jackson wide left; that is hardly fair on Harriott, who has been a revelation.
There doesn't seem to be a place in our first choice starting eleven unfortunately, and even more so if we sign Gower permanently over the summer.
Never seen such a wide spread yet flimsy argument before.
If he had been playing well then he would be playing. He has been dropped and we have looked far more dangerous going forward and organised in midfield without him.
We can not risk a developing player in such an important position and i think cp realises that now.
If he can not fit in to our way if playing then he becomes a liability. He may well develop elsewhere but unlike last year we might not be the right club for him and vice versa in a strategic sense.
Are you saying that the argument of not playing in his best position is flimsy? Let's play Hughes in the more forward Jackson role and see how he copes. He wouldn't be half as effective.
No-one knows due to his poor performances doing both these jobs.
He's played well in a midfield five this season though, Leicester away springs to mind, he played well there.
When has he played the attacking role, I'm not sure what fixtures he's done that in. Give me a fixture and I'll rack my brains. The only time I fully remember him doing that is when him and Hollands swapped for the Watford game at home, not a bad ball to Fuller was it?
I don't want to get too down on him but i don't feel he is a right fit for CAFC.
It not so much him playing in an offensive role but when he Gets forward he can't pick a simple pass let alone a defence splitter which is the reason why he is in a defensive role.
I may be missing the point, please tell me if I am, but surely you can't judge a player until you've seen him in his best position. Also you mention the 4-4-2, but Stephens hasn't been given the opportunity play in that formation, along with those same players; mainly Hughes and Harriott that Jackson has had the luxury to feed off.
I personally feel that the "can't pick a simple pass" comment is flimsy and widespread also. The only game I can remember him mis laying passes regularly this season was Forest at home ... the whole team were hardly stringing them together though!
Also you say, as if it is even more absurd, that he would be able to pull off a defence splitting pass. But as afore mentioned, Watford wasn't too bad and if this isn't defence splitting I don't know what is: ...
Xavi would have been proud with that!
If you haven't seen Dale Stephens give the ball away consistently then we haven't been watching the same Dale Stephens. Its not fair showing videos of his Best moments as they don't have " Dale Stephens gives the ball away 4 times in 6 minutes" on you tube. If there was then there would be lots if them.
Your 'lets support the players' comment would be correct at the valley but Charlton life would be boring if we couldn't express différent opinions which we clearly have on this player.
Maybe a move back up north means he can finally sort out that family issue that meant he was "definitely" leaving 18 months ago : - )
You know where would be a great fit for him? Swansea.