Academy Category 1, 2 and 3 status

seriously_red

I just had a look at the rumours thread and though it was worth starting a separate discussion on Academy status. I have heard stories that CAFC were planning a bid for Category 1 status and wanted to be certain of getting it as failure means you cannot re-apply for 3(?) years. The article below is getting close to a year old but highlights that Category 2 gets you £200K for players on the off whereas Category 3 only gets £72K.

watfordobserver.co.uk/sport/9877884.What_is_the_difference_between_a_Category_1_and_3_Academy_/

It would be good if someone can explain more of the differences... one thing that will be in tomorrow's Trust News: Academy expenses are excluded from Financial Fair Play calculations which begin next season and could lead to sanctions as early as January 2015 once accounts for next season are filed.

ISawLeaburnScore

I understood that we'd already ejected out of the Category 1 process, were now aiming at Category 2 and can't be reaudited for another 2/3 years if we wanted to go from 2 to 1.

Happy to be corrected otherwise.

seriously_red

I understood we were in Cat 2 and that's why we get 200K + appearance linked bonuses from Chelsea for the lad who moved recently.
I wasn't aware we had actually applied for Cat 1?

Athletico Charlton

£5.5M net pa for Cat1. When our t/o is £8M this would be madness.
£1.5M net pa for Cat 2. When our t/o is £8M this is a marginal decision.

seriously_red

Is it madness? What is the value of the output? Perhaps two or three players a year who either play for CAFC or have a transfer value? If CAFC wants to push up into the play-offs it is either with a quick splurge on players or long term with players coming through the academy... but that doesn't work if the likes of Chelsea are nicking our top top players

Incidentally what's the source of those numbers - I thought there were some grants available to offset vs costs?

madadd

those numbers are seriously skewed I think, as the article suggests a Category 1 status academy should have a runnig budget of approx £2.3 M it doesn't have to operate on that budget that is the guideline, not sure where the £5.5m came from ?!

BlackForestReds

not sure where the £5.5m came from ?!

That number was quoted in the Richard Murray at Bromley Addicks meeting thread. I didn't go to the meeting so I don't know is whether that's over two years - the Cat 1 licence lasts for two years before being renewed, so presumably clubs with Cat 1 status (or chasing it) would presumably have to guarantee that ca £5m has been budgetted for over the lifetime of the licence.

covered_end_junior

madadd said:

those numbers are seriously skewed I think, as the article suggests a Category 1 status academy should have a runnig budget of approx £2.3 M it doesn't have to operate on that budget that is the guideline, not sure where the £5.5m came from ?!

I'm not sure if it's alright to say where the £5.5m came from or not even though I suspect others have on another thread so I won't but it's about as a reliable source as you can get when it comes to issues with Charlton.

AFKABartram

But that doesn't mean it was correct CEJ.

My understanding is for Cat A of a minimum budget of 2.35m of which something like 750k is provided by central funding. So net budget spend of circa 1.5m

I may be wrong though.

BlackForestReds

seriously_red said:

Is it madness? What is the value of the output? Perhaps two or three players a year who either play for CAFC or have a transfer value? If CAFC wants to push up into the play-offs it is either with a quick splurge on players or long term with players coming through the academy... but that doesn't work if the likes of Chelsea are nicking our top top players

Incidentally what's the source of those numbers - I thought there were some grants available to offset vs costs?

The club is running at a deficit of ca £7m to £8m per annum and the UEFA Financial Fair Play rules which kick in next season mean that perhaps it's difficult to justify the necessary expense on getting a Cat One licence when a licence Cat Two will still allow us to train up the next generation of players and stay within (or closer to) our budgetary constraints. Although spending on the academy system is outside the FFP rules that money still has to come from somewhere. Spending more on the academy now means less being spent on the first team.

As for the likes of Chelsea nicking our best players - they have taken one, possibly we have lost another to Man U, but there's no official word on that. Perhaps they made generous offers to others (and maybe other clubs have as well), given the success of the academy teams this year I think it more likely than not, but if so it's telling that the rest of the academy have chosen not to follow Kasey Palmer out of the club. The issue as I see it is the paucity of compensation under the current system, but that's another matter. Also, bear in mind that even if we had Cat One status Chelsea could still have persuaded Kasey Palmer to leave (he's not a slave - and there's enough employment contract law out there that would bear that out) but they would have had to pay out more in compensation.

Airman Brown

I believe the £5.5m includes the considerable one-off capital cost of a new building at the training ground, which would also have been used by the community trust and as such 50 per cent funded externally. Whether the club was wise to try to pursue this route in terms of a cost-benefit analysis I have no view, but regardless of that it did so by decision of the board and was a good distance down that route last summer, including securing the funding. The project then stalled following PV's departure.

oohaahmortimer

Great so the wise decision to hoooof PV out didn't help our Cat 1 attempt .....
Well it's the thought that counts ....

shirty5

NEWS: And good news! We've had our EPPP category-two status confirmed by the Professional Game Board --> http://bit.ly/1asQX2p (IL

Miserableoldgit

http://www.cafc.co.uk/news/article/20130711-academy-earns-category-two-status-907490.aspx

ShootersHillGuru

Very good to see the club reaffirm its ambition to achieve category one status.

Miserableoldgit

Charlton Athletic FC ‏@CAFCofficial
Hart: "We passed the assessment with an extremely high percentage, and the auditors were very complimentary" http://bit.ly/1asQX2p #cafc

Henry Irving

ShootersHillGuru said:

Very good to see the club reaffirm its ambition to achieve category one status.

Which Paul Hart himself said was our target this year.

Well done though to Paul and everyone else for getting Cat 2 and that is better than many will do but we wanted and we're going for Cat 1.

And as spending on the Academy is outside of financial fair play limitation the money could have been spent is we'd wanted to and if we'd had it.

Weegie Addick

"If we had it" being the pertinent comment - I'd love to live in a mansion by the sea if I had the money!

ShootersHillGuru

I think it is fair to say that there is a fair amount of scepticism of the board on here but credit where credits due. The Acadamy has been a shining light of their tenure with investment and inspired appointments. Well done Paul Hart and everyone else involved in getting this status. Roll on the next phase in its development.

carly burn

ShootersHillGuru said:

I think it is fair to say that there is a fair amount of scepticism of the board on here but credit where credits due. The Acadamy has been a shining light of their tenure with investment and inspired appointments. Well done Paul Hart and everyone else involved in getting this status. Roll on the next phase in its development.

The Academy has been THE major investment since this board came to the club. It's a big big part of the 'experiment'.

Stig

Sounds good, but what does it mean in practice? What are the benefits of being Level 2, is it just as a step up to be in Level 1 and the opportunity to play Chelsea and Arsenal, or is there more to it that that? Can you get to Mornington Crescent Level 1 directly, or is Level 2 a necessary staging post?

Does it mean that we'll get better players signing for us? Does it mean that the players we develop will be better equipped for the first team? Does it mean that the players we sell will be worth more because they were trained at a more prestigious academy, or is it just a rubber stamp and a pat on the back that we're doing something right?

Sorry if it sounds a bit negative - I'm not negative at all. I just have a lot of questions.

Stig

http://www.footballacademytalk.com/football-academy-revolution-or-disaster-the-new-fa-elite-player-performance-plan-eppp/

Apart from budgets, it seems that one of the biggest differences is the age of players that can be coached. According to this the lower age limit drops from 11 years to 4 with category 2 status. Presumably this gives the club the chance to be in for better players earlier on before other clubs get them.

Viewfinder

Stig said:

http://www.footballacademytalk.com/football-academy-revolution-or-disaster-the-new-fa-elite-player-performance-plan-eppp/

Apart from budgets, it seems that one of the biggest differences is the age of players that can be coached. According to this the lower age limit drops from 11 years to 4 with category 2 status. Presumably this gives the club the chance to be in for better players earlier on before other clubs get them.

The main advantage of status 1 over status 2 might be as hard-nosed as that. But you also raise some pertinent questions that I too would like to see answered. We could really do with a channel of two-way communication with the club....

Sparrows Lane Lion

Viewfinder said:

Stig said:

http://www.footballacademytalk.com/football-academy-revolution-or-disaster-the-new-fa-elite-player-performance-plan-eppp/

Apart from budgets, it seems that one of the biggest differences is the age of players that can be coached. According to the the lower age limit drops fro 11 years to 4 with category 2 status. Presumably this gives the club the chance to be in for better players earlier on before other clubs get them.

The main advantage of status 1 over status 2 might be as hard-nosed as that. But you also raise some pertinent questions that I too would like to see answered. We could really do with a channel of two-way communication with the club....

I thought I recalled seeing that Status 1 also gives you a bigger catchment area, letting the bigger clubs sweep up more of the talent.

Airman Brown

Bigger compensation payments.

razil

CAFC just got Cat 2 status yesterday, read more about EPPP on our site http://www.castrust.org/2013/07/footybiz-academy-europe-vs-english-eppp/

nth_london_addick

Cat 1 means we cant be screwed for any young talent should they be poached

When it was thought we had lost archie edwards to man citeh the biggest gutter for me was that regardless of how much potential he has that i would love to see in the red of cafc

The thought that citeh got him on the cheap real cheap was annoying

dickplumb

It was Man Utd not city.

nth_london_addick

it was city not utd according to what I was told dick

BlackForestReds

Cat 1 means we cant be screwed for any young talent should they be poached

That might be in the current EPPP rules, but I'd be curious to see what would happen if a Cat Two club did poach a player from a Cat One academy. Ultimately it would end up in court if the Cat Two club refused to back down and I'm not so sure that this particular rule would stand up to a legal challenge. We'll never know until a club tries it...