So, I spend my whole life paying my taxes and NI and I then decide that, for health reasons, it is better for me to live in a different climate. In your world, every contribution I have made is worthless.
yep, lets put state sanctions on people leaving the country, because loads of countries like China, North Korea do exactly the same and they're always in the world news!
Having worked for over 40 years and self-employed for the last 36 years and paying taxes, I am seriously thinking of spending some of my future abroad. There are many reasons for this, including politics and climate, and I will not accept anybody telling me - in a common market arrangement - that I have to stay in the UK.
Having worked for over 40 years and self-employed for the last 36 years and paying taxes, I am seriously thinking of spending some of my future abroad. There are many reasons for this, including politics and climate, and I will not accept anybody telling me - in a common market arrangement - that I have to stay in the UK.
Yeah, but it's alright because we're all in it together aren't we. Aren't we?
Personally I'm sick of this same tired line being trotted out everytime the media spotlight falls on somebody with more money than they average man.
Some people have more money than others. Sometimes it's 'fair', sometimes it isn't, but it's always been that way and always will. What good does jealousy do? (which is what it normally boils down to)...
Interesting point of view. So you're not bothered by unfairness per se, but by people mentioning unfairness. How unfair of me to mention it.
Quite the contrary. I just think that different people have different definitions of unfairness. And I wish that people would stop just crying 'unfair' at everyone who they perceive has it better than them.
I also feel that there are certain things that can't/won't be changed, and if as much energy was expended in trying to fix the problems which can be addressed, as was spent sniping about those that can't, then the world would be a better place.
It's easy to criticise, but what would you do to make things 'fair'?
I agree with you in that you'll probably get a different definition of unfairness for everyone you ask, but that doesn't mean that we should just accept things as they are. I really don't get the problem with saying things are unfair, if that's how they are perceived to be. The fact that you may never get agreement on what exactly fair is, is absolutely no reason to stand on the sidelines and pretend that things are somehow ok, when they are blatantly unfair. Still less to have a pop at those who do see a problem. It's worth noting that what we are talking about here isn't some minor matter of someone having the odd thousand or even the odd million more than others. This thread is about £21 trillion pounds spirited away: Not taxed, not circulated, but hidden away from society for the benefit of a very small minority.
You may well be right that some things can't/won't be changed. I don't know. But whether they can or not, changing them will almost certainly be more difficult if those that would like to change them are seen as the enemy. The real problem isn't that those people who snipe don't want change, rather that they are powerless to make it happen. Sure, the world would be a better place if as much energy was put into fixing problems as is spent sniping about them, so why not try to change things yourself rather than taking pot shots at others who express their dissatisfaction?
Your final question about what I would do is a real toughie. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but to be fair why should I? It's plain from past performance that none of the political parties have the answer to solving the ills of society (indeed some are elected specifically to maintain, and even further, such imbalances), so why that should be the acid test for some guy on the internet I don't know. Anyway, here's my immediate take on what I think should be the priorities. 1.Get people to recognise that things “aren't fair” and that there is actually an issue to be dealt with. As it stands there are so many apologists for the way things are it's unbelievable. Things are not only “unfair” but clearly not working and yet people still bury their heads in the sand pretending that everything's ok. Getting people to recognise that current systems are wrong has got to be priority number one. 2.Have a government that is actually interested in fairness. We've never had this and maybe never will. One of my real fears is that I will go through life and never see a government that prizes egalitarianism over and above short term electability. The race is on, and to date I am losing; unfortunately so is everyone else. 3.Introduce a set of measures that aren't solely based on economic performance. We need to find a way of developing beyond the “greed is good” philosophy. Some things in life are more important than pound signs, but you'd never know that by following contemporary political discourse. It won't be easy to do this but as long as we keep pandering to the money men, it'll never happen.
Yeah, but it's alright because we're all in it together aren't we. Aren't we?
Personally I'm sick of this same tired line being trotted out everytime the media spotlight falls on somebody with more money than they average man.
Some people have more money than others. Sometimes it's 'fair', sometimes it isn't, but it's always been that way and always will. What good does jealousy do? (which is what it normally boils down to)...
Interesting point of view. So you're not bothered by unfairness per se, but by people mentioning unfairness. How unfair of me to mention it.
Quite the contrary. I just think that different people have different definitions of unfairness. And I wish that people would stop just crying 'unfair' at everyone who they perceive has it better than them.
I also feel that there are certain things that can't/won't be changed, and if as much energy was expended in trying to fix the problems which can be addressed, as was spent sniping about those that can't, then the world would be a better place.
It's easy to criticise, but what would you do to make things 'fair'?
I agree with you in that you'll probably get a different definition of unfairness for everyone you ask, but that doesn't mean that we should just accept things as they are. I really don't get the problem with saying things are unfair, if that's how they are perceived to be. The fact that you may never get agreement on what exactly fair is, is absolutely no reason to stand on the sidelines and pretend that things are somehow ok, when they are blatantly unfair. Still less to have a pop at those who do see a problem. It's worth noting that what we are talking about here isn't some minor matter of someone having the odd thousand or even the odd million more than others. This thread is about £21 trillion pounds spirited away: Not taxed, not circulated, but hidden away from society for the benefit of a very small minority.
You may well be right that some things can't/won't be changed. I don't know. But whether they can or not, changing them will almost certainly be more difficult if those that would like to change them are seen as the enemy. The real problem isn't that those people who snipe don't want change, rather that they are powerless to make it happen. Sure, the world would be a better place if as much energy was put into fixing problems as is spent sniping about them, so why not try to change things yourself rather than taking pot shots at others who express their dissatisfaction?
Your final question about what I would do is a real toughie. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but to be fair why should I? It's plain from past performance that none of the political parties have the answer to solving the ills of society (indeed some are elected specifically to maintain, and even further, such imbalances), so why that should be the acid test for some guy on the internet I don't know. Anyway, here's my immediate take on what I think should be the priorities. 1.Get people to recognise that things “aren't fair” and that there is actually an issue to be dealt with. As it stands there are so many apologists for the way things are it's unbelievable. Things are not only “unfair” but clearly not working and yet people still bury their heads in the sand pretending that everything's ok. Getting people to recognise that current systems are wrong has got to be priority number one. 2.Have a government that is actually interested in fairness. We've never had this and maybe never will. One of my real fears is that I will go through life and never see a government that prizes egalitarianism over and above short term electability. The race is on, and to date I am losing; unfortunately so is everyone else. 3.Introduce a set of measures that aren't solely based on economic performance. We need to find a way of developing beyond the “greed is good” philosophy. Some things in life are more important than pound signs, but you'd never know that by following contemporary political discourse. It won't be easy to do this but as long as we keep pandering to the money men, it'll never happen.
We're I allowed to hold an opinion, I would agree with this.
RM owns an element of our club which as i understand is located in BVI in a company sense.
Why would i begrudge a man like him for being legally tax efficient after he has put a vast amount of his personally earned wealth into keeping a football club i love going for years at huge loss to himself?
I agree with your sentiment Rodney, but in fact I don't think the BVI arrangement is RM's initiative, I think it was put in place by the new owners (But I am not 100% sure)
Our club is located in the UK and files accounts at companies house. Baton owns 100% of our club. This is also UK owned and registered. Both Baton and CAFC Ltd filed acounts in January this year showing that the directors are Murray, Slater, Jiminez and Prothero
Richard Murray owns 10% of Baton. CAFC Holdings owns the majority 90% of Baton and is registered in BVI.
Having worked for over 40 years and self-employed for the last 36 years and paying taxes, I am seriously thinking of spending some of my future abroad. There are many reasons for this, including politics and climate, and I will not accept anybody telling me - in a common market arrangement - that I have to stay in the UK.
Think many more people would retire would retire abroad if they could afford to.decent way to spend your retiremrnt with a bit of decent weather ,good luck to anyone who does.
Some people have been fighting progress for genetations - give votes to anyone other than a small clique of landowners...fairer working hours and safer working conditions...giving people pensions...giving women the vote...giving people access to the NHS, education and the welfare state and there are many other things. All these reforms and more would cause society as it was known at the time to end according to some people. These reforms have improved society, creating a fairer Britain has worked, it doesn't mean that we should stop now or that some things are too difficult to achieve so shouldn't be attempted.
Comments
So, I spend my whole life paying my taxes and NI and I then decide that, for health reasons, it is better for me to live in a different climate. In your world, every contribution I have made is worthless.
A lot of scenarios you need to think through.
You may well be right that some things can't/won't be changed. I don't know. But whether they can or not, changing them will almost certainly be more difficult if those that would like to change them are seen as the enemy. The real problem isn't that those people who snipe don't want change, rather that they are powerless to make it happen. Sure, the world would be a better place if as much energy was put into fixing problems as is spent sniping about them, so why not try to change things yourself rather than taking pot shots at others who express their dissatisfaction?
Your final question about what I would do is a real toughie. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but to be fair why should I? It's plain from past performance that none of the political parties have the answer to solving the ills of society (indeed some are elected specifically to maintain, and even further, such imbalances), so why that should be the acid test for some guy on the internet I don't know. Anyway, here's my immediate take on what I think should be the priorities.
1.Get people to recognise that things “aren't fair” and that there is actually an issue to be dealt with. As it stands there are so many apologists for the way things are it's unbelievable. Things are not only “unfair” but clearly not working and yet people still bury their heads in the sand pretending that everything's ok. Getting people to recognise that current systems are wrong has got to be priority number one.
2.Have a government that is actually interested in fairness. We've never had this and maybe never will. One of my real fears is that I will go through life and never see a government that prizes egalitarianism over and above short term electability. The race is on, and to date I am losing; unfortunately so is everyone else.
3.Introduce a set of measures that aren't solely based on economic performance. We need to find a way of developing beyond the “greed is good” philosophy. Some things in life are more important than pound signs, but you'd never know that by following contemporary political discourse. It won't be easy to do this but as long as we keep pandering to the money men, it'll never happen.
Richard Murray owns 10% of Baton. CAFC Holdings owns the majority 90% of Baton and is registered in BVI.
Maybe he should've gone to Butlins instead.