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Still Learning?

edited March 2013 in General Charlton
There have been a lot of discussions on here about Chris Powell lately. One thing that they all have in common is that before long someone will add a comment that he's still learning. I can't help but wonder if we are overplaying the, 'Chris is a rookie' argument a bit. Sure, he's not as long in the tooth as some managers and he's not been hopping on and off the management merry-go-round like some, but I don't believe he's as green as these comments make him seem.

It is, of course, undeniable that he is still learning; all managers are. Part of the game is the continual cat and mouse act of teams changing formations/tactics to gain an advantage. These often work in the short term until the other managers suss out what they're doing, then the advantage is lost and they have to try something else. In this sense even a manager who's been around the block as much as Alex Ferguson will still be learning. If they're not continually learning, they're very soon going to find winning very difficult. But the way the phrase is used here is a bit different to this. It's as if to suggest that Chris Powell is still wet behind the ears. As if when his discovered more than just the basics of management, he'll eventually be ok. I don't believe that to be so, just take a look at his cv:

⁕ Has had a professional involvement in football for over 25 years.
⁕ Played 763 professional matches for eight different clubs.
⁕ Represented his country on five occasions, surpassing many people's expectations (though maybe not so much Charlton fans).
⁕ Chairman of the PFA for 5 years.
⁕ Has completed UEFA B & A coaching badges and UEFA Pro Licence (the highest qualification there is).
⁕ Has played for, been trained by or worked with the following managers: Alan Curbishley, Roy Hodgson, Sven Goran Eriksson, Steve Coppell, Len Walker, Dave Webb, Colin Murphy, Barry Fry, Jim Smith, Alan Pardew, Adrian Boothroyd.
⁕ Has been Charlton manager for 2 years and 50 days and is currently the 23rd longest serving manager out of the 92 league clubs and 6th longest in The Championship.
⁕ Steered Charlton to promotion last season winning the highest points total ever by a Charlton manager.
⁕ Has won three Manager of the Month awards and was in 2011-12 the League One Manager of the Season.

I don't want to overplay this and make out that he's not going to learn, but I don't think we should assume that he's miles behind the others and still has loads to learn. If I'd been in my industry for 25 years and my current job for 2 years and people kept saying I was still learning, I think I'd be a bit miffed and wonder why they were making excuses for me. In Chris Powell we have an absolute diamond, I think we should respect his experience a bit more.

Comments

  • SCP is the best thing to happen to this club since Lord Curbs


  • Fully agree.

    I think there is often a subtext when people say "he's learning from his mistakes" which is either "he's now doing what I think he should do" or "we won" as if the poster knew all along whislt the nieve CP has just, finally, worked out how to manage that week.

  • how can you say that oohahh? best since we last came up from third tier, Bailey???? but done nothing more yet.
  • I do think experience matters a lot in management. You can learn from others who have managed you but the big test comes when you give up the role of advisor and become the decision maker. Everything falls on your shoulders and every decision has to be yours.

    He is relatively inexperienced when compared to his peers in this league. Men such as Jackett, Warnock, Pearson, Mowbray, Bruce, McCarthy, Davis etc. So he will be out thought at times. I think we can put that down to the experience of others so it does have a part to play.

    However, the main concern if I remember correctly when Powell was appointed was that he would be a soft touch or too nice. This clearly is not the case. I pray he is given time and money...and is allowed the odd mistake without being harangued and chastised.
  • yes, no criticism please.
  • edited March 2013

    how can you say that oohahh? best since we last came up from third tier, Bailey???? but done nothing more yet.

    ??? You've confused me .....

    I'll repeat SCP is the best thing to happen to this club since Lord Curbs
    Curbs left in 2006 we then got relegated twice over the next few years ........SCP then arrives and we get a record haul of 101 points and go up as champions and are very close to securing our Championship status with little investment in the current team .
    Hope this helps !!
  • best manager you mean?
  • in fact the only non waster manager to put it in context. I hope he comes good but not sure he is even close yet. time will tell.
  • The best thing to happen to our club since Lord Curbs left the building , our club has been on a big slide since Curbs left and SCP arriving has eventually led to an uplift in things and winning the league with 101 points don't grow on trees

    Not sure what more he could have done on the resources provided but hey ho in another world we may have walked this division too

    Not sure what else you'd expect to have happened in his short tenure but each to their own
  • Resources? How many in this division have had more over the last two years?

    as you said he is learning. hope he learns fast, he needs to in this division. i worry about repeat mistakes, slow subs, tinkering etc, but having not attended matches can only rely on others' comments. Maybe they are wrong and like you say he is a brilliant manager.
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  • ...in another world we may have walked this division too

    Not sure what else you'd expect to have happened in his short tenure but each to their own

    I wonder if some are a little more critical than they'd normally be because of Norwich and Southampton's successive promotions. I suspect that some people were of the opinion that the Championship isn't much of a step up from League One and that we should be pushing for a second automatic promotion rather than just consolidating.
  • Resources? How many in this division have had more over the last two years?

    Most Champ clubs spent more last summer: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/championship-clubbyclub-transfer-guide-8057155.html

    Did spend a bit in League 1 but not millions. I'm sure our wage bill is nowhere near Leicester's reported £27m last season...
  • Stig said:

    ...in another world we may have walked this division too

    Not sure what else you'd expect to have happened in his short tenure but each to their own

    I wonder if some are a little more critical than they'd normally be because of Norwich and Southampton's successive promotions. I suspect that some people were of the opinion that the Championship isn't much of a step up from League One and that we should be pushing for a second automatic promotion rather than just consolidating.
    I think it's more the home/away form that has caused people to be slightly critical. Most fans will have only seen the dire displays at home and therefore taken the view from those that our team isn't up to much. I'm sure none will be complaining about currently being midtable, as that was always the aim.

  • Top post, which makes your case well. I happen to agree with you, which makes commenting on the matter beyond that difficult, other than to say I wish the general balance between light, more inconsequential threads and more well reasoned discussions was a little better!
  • You can play as many senior games as you want for club and country for many, many years. However, the challenge of being a football manager is very different:

    - Managing the expectations of the fans
    - Managing your own relationship with the business side of the club
    - Scouting/Transfers
    - Being the main point of pressure for when something goes wrong

    Lets keep in mind as well that Charlton have never been 'sitting still' as long as Powell has been in charge. Every single season he has taken on (including the 2nd half of the first one) have involved very different, fast paced challenges.

    As of next season, hopefully things will be a little calmer in terms of expectations. That way Powell can just get on with doing the job without a huge target hanging over his head.
  • edited March 2013
    This is his first season in the championship and Curbishley needed 1 trial season in a new league after promotion before we started doing well in it. Also I was disappointed when we sacked Parkinson so Powell's got a long way to go yet before I start criticising him.
  • Tactically he is still learning for example like best time and how to best utilise his substitutes. He will learn and grow with that. The one thing you can't be taught is man management and Chris has that nailed already. I am 100% certain that he will go on to be a very successful manager based on what I have seen in effectively two seasons. Please let it be with us.
  • Sometimes he doesn't do the thing people want and we lose the match. This makes him naive as the people sitting in the stands know everything about football. Today the Chelsea fans chanted 'you don't know what you're doing' at Rafa when he subbed Lampard and Moses and brought on Hazard and Mikel. Cue Hazard scoring a screamer and Ramires (freed up to gallop forward by Mikel's presence) putting the equaliser away. By the end they looked like inspired subs, but had Hazard put his shot wide and Ramires not had his shooting boots on they'd probably be talking about Rafa's useless tactics again. Football isn't maths; you can't just work out the perfect equation and laugh as it sweeps all before it. I really hate seeing people call a league winning manager in only his second full season 'naive' from behind their computer screen.
  • Scoham said:

    Resources? How many in this division have had more over the last two years?

    Most Champ clubs spent more last summer: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/championship-clubbyclub-transfer-guide-8057155.html

    Did spend a bit in League 1 but not millions. I'm sure our wage bill is nowhere near Leicester's reported £27m last season...
    Agree, and to add to that :

    Last year I understand that Huddersfield's wage bill was 50% higher than ours, and

    Several clubs are benefitting from parachute money. For example Blackburn and Woles, currently below us in the table.

    So I reckon the answer to your question, Steve, is " most of them".
  • I think it's a fooking miracle that we're where we are.
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  • Sometimes he doesn't do the thing people want and we lose the match. This makes him naive as the people sitting in the stands know everything about football. Today the Chelsea fans chanted 'you don't know what you're doing' at Rafa when he subbed Lampard and Moses and brought on Hazard and Mikel. Cue Hazard scoring a screamer and Ramires (freed up to gallop forward by Mikel's presence) putting the equaliser away. By the end they looked like inspired subs, but had Hazard put his shot wide and Ramires not had his shooting boots on they'd probably be talking about Rafa's useless tactics again. Football isn't maths; you can't just work out the perfect equation and laugh as it sweeps all before it. I really hate seeing people call a league winning manager in only his second full season 'naive' from behind their computer screen.

    Spot on
  • Hopefully this season is a learning curve for Powell as in the 2010/11 season when he took over. He can assess in pre season and go for it next season.
  • Chris Powell, if he stays/isnt sacked, will get us into the Premier League...
  • In my view there's no substitute for experince of the real deal, no matter what you do as a coach or player. Be it dealing with players, your staff, the oppo, a different division style and level of play, different scenarios, advice etc. I also think you can get in a rut, plus we have no idea what actually goes on. All jobs of that sort you continue to learn.

    Perhaps he'll get a chance to sit back and review at some stage but I doubt it.
  • I am 75 years old, and I am still learning. The day I stop learning about life, there will be a large black car arriving at my door. My family and I love Chris Powell, I have a photo of him in my Lounge at home, but I try very hard not to judge him in a pair of rose tinted glasses based on the last game.
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