Difference in culture, or bad luck with two Jobsworths?

Rob

I just had an interesting experience with United Airlines.

This is a bit long winded so bear with me.

In January 2012 I booked three return flights to Heathrow from San Francisco for myself and two of my sons. We were coming over for the Oldham/Walsall/Carlisle games last season. 9 points. Yesssssss.... Anyway, I digress.

At the last minute one of my sons couldn't come so I had to cancel his ticket and we were given a credit which could be used as long as the new flight was booked by Jan of this year. It didn't have to be used from SFO to London and the flight didn't have to be before the end of January, just booked by then. So, on 29 Jan I called them up and booked a RT flight for him from San Francisco to Kauai, a beautiful Hawaii island. I suppose he prefered that over London. Not that I blame him. :-) The booking was made over the phone by the United Customer Service rep and that was that, or at least I thought it was.

A couple of days ago my son asked for details of the flight so he could book the same flight for his girlfriend. I dug out the email which came when I booked the flight, and that I hadn't really looked at, and noticed the rep had booked it to Maui (a different Hawaiian island) not Kauai. I know I had told them Kauai.

So, today I called United to get it changed to Kauai. I knew it shouldn't be a problem for them to do it but I really didn't want to pay the change of reservation fee as it was their mistake. I got through to a rep in India, explained what had happened and he said he would have to talk to his boss to see if they could waive the fee. After about 5 minutes he came back and said they couldn't waive the fee as I waited too long to report the mistake. He said I should have checked the email straight away. We went round and round a bit but were getting nowhere so I asked to speak to his supervisor. By now I was getting a bit pissed off because I know I had originally requested Kauai and I just felt the rep's original mistake was not my fault.

After another 5 minutes or so the supervisor came on the line (probably the same one he had already spoken to). I explained the situation to her but she said she couldn't change it and gave the same reason he had - I should have checked the email earlier. By now I was starting to see red as I really felt their customer service was going right out of the window. So, we went round and round ourselves for another 10 minutes or so and it was obvious to me that it wasn't a computer system limitation that was stopping her waiving the change fee, it was just that she didn't want to do it. I think I remember in our conversations that she had said it would be $175 but by that time I wasn't really listening for what the fee was. I just didn't feel I should pay it. After all this I asked to speak to her manager but she said she was 'it'. I then asked to speak to another supervisor and after umming and ahhing she said I could but they would say the same. I said I still wanted to so she put me on hold. Then, after a minute, I was cut off.

As you can imagine by now I was pretty frustrated and I hadn't even managed to change the reservation which I had to do as the hotel in Kauai was booked. So, I decided to call again and if I got through to India I would ask to speak to an American representative. This time I went straight through to an American and I explained the situation for a third time. What was her response? "Yes, certainly Mr Sears, I can help you with that".... "And I've waived the fee as it was our fault" (I hadn't even brought that piece up). And, I even got a $73.98 credit as the fare was less to Kauai than to Maui. I was literally only on the phone with her for less than 5 minutes. All sorted plus an additional credit. What a difference. The same company. The same problem. Handled totally differently.

Is this as simple as a major difference in customer service attitude between India and America or did I just strike it unlucky with who I was speaking to in India? Surely the United policy on this should be the same whichever country it's being handled from.

This has really got me wary of whether you get true customer service from India. Do they think outside the box enough? Do they think they have the authority to think outside the box?

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

oohaahmortimer

Rob said:

Do they think they have the authority to think outside the box?

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

Personally speaking and I've had loads of agg with my BT telephone line , these call centres, India now for Bt, are the same as they were when they were in Middlesborough or wherever it was up north ....
They have ridiculously strict guidelines and they're not allowed to "think outside the box" and in my experience trying to speak to someone further up the food chain who is allowed to "think outside the box" is nigh on impossible
The call centres are under rigid instructions and guidelines to follow and it's almost like you're dealing with robots through the rigidness of their approach
So trying to get thru to someone higher up is the key to finding a humane response but speaking to them or finding the phone number for that is as easy as finding rocking horse shit
I feel sorry for these call centre staff who must get constant shit from jo public due to the crappy service provided by their employees, cos anyone who's happy with it won't be ringing up !! Hopefully they can leave our boring moans at the office .....
Well done for persuing the matter rather than giving in but I always try to remain as cool and polite as possible when dealing with call centres (and imo it has nothing to do with with whatever nationality has answered the phone, the staff are under strict instructions/guidelines) and hunt the internet for different phone numbers to find someone with a bit more clout

*if anyone reads the OP and this one and hasn't fallen asleep , they really need help*

buckshee

I had a problem with HSBC a couple of years back and said to the Indian lady at the call centre "well that may be the way it works where you are" to which she replied "Sunderland?" . Left me feeling a bit daft.

Kap10

Agree with that but you fail to take responsibility yourself. None of this aggro would have happened if you had checked the email in the first place.

Stu_of_Kunming

Kap10 said:

Agree with that but you fail to take responsibility yourself. None of this aggro would have happened if you had checked the email in the first place.

Nor would it have happened if the person on the phone had booked the correct flight.

Rob

Kap10 said:

Agree with that but you fail to take responsibility yourself. None of this aggro would have happened if you had checked the email in the first place.

I do recognise that. The fact is I didn't though. Probably because I've booked so many of these myself online in the past with no problem that I just didn't think that they could have made a mistake. 100 lines. 'Need to be more careful in the future.' :-) I have learned from this though. I do think the India office could have been more, what's the word, sensitive, to what was going on.

Bournemouth Addick

Sadly we are seeing more & more of this moving into the public sector. In order to bring costs down experienced staff are moved across to contact centres which are being farmed off to the lowest bidder - the staff leave if they can as they undergo a deskilling process with no authority or ownership of the problem and are replaced by minimum wage graduates who are just happy to have a job and follow the script.

There's a place for call centres but it is not dealing with extremely complex or sensitive issues such as the care package of our elderly relatives for example.

nth_london_addick

The best one is 118 118

Every time I call them and the response is

118. 118. How . Can. I. Help . You


I say are you reading that or are you a robot the pauses in between the phone answer are just ridiculous

Swisdom

As an aside I spent 2 weeks on Kauai for my honeymoon. Stunning place and I plan to retire there.

Hartleypete

Had a problem with Sky & a router, after going through all sorts of "tests" over the phone (although I new it was broken) she finally said we will send a new one at a cost of x£. I said no and she refussed to send a free one or put me through to anybody else. I got so pissed off I said fine just cancel sky I'll go to Virgin.

Said she couldn't do that but would transfer me. When I explained why I was cancelling to the next person she arranged a free router. Complete waste of time for all concerned but got what I wanted in the end.

Mortimerician

I think that the thing is that the airlines are operating on very low margins so they're really looking to make money up in other ways. They've been flexible in providing a credit and in allowing the credit to be used on a different route. Whether they made the error or you did there was a written confirmation that wasn't checked. You say it's no skin of their nose, but there's a fair bit of admin cost in this, so I thin they're within their rights. The only thing that you might try as an option is asking them if they record sales calls, to see if they'll check it. Locating it is probably enough of a pain that they'll let you off for an easy life.

CatAddick

I think it is partly a cultural thing. In my business (electronics) large companies have been for years opening low-cost design centres in Asia and the sub-continent. Those in India especially have some very bright people but they 'do as they are told' (which is good) but struggle to think out of the box (which is bad for innovation). Americans and Europeans tend to be more maverick in their approach. Japan struggled for a long time with this, being excellent at manufacturing and not so good at design but this has changed. The rest of Asia is improving, though obviously as the innovation increases so does the premium the workers command and it becomes less low-cost. I suspect there are still many people who work very hard but do behave like automatons and follow the script. I always find it strange that they can be so rigid and dedicated in their work lives and so hapahazard in their personal lives (such as driving...)

Addickted

Mortimerician said:

I think that the thing is that the airlines are operating on very low margins so they're really looking to make money up in other ways. They've been flexible in providing a credit and in allowing the credit to be used on a different route. Whether they made the error or you did there was a written confirmation that wasn't checked. You say it's no skin of their nose, but there's a fair bit of admin cost in this, so I thin they're within their rights. The only thing that you might try as an option is asking them if they record sales calls, to see if they'll check it. Locating it is probably enough of a pain that they'll let you off for an easy life.

It's called quality customer service.

And it makes sure that Rob will UA again next time.

creepyaddick

Do all the Indian call centres only employ people with English sounding names, (Doris, Tony, Jane, Robert)

RedPanda

It can be frustrating. I had a my passport and bank card stolen in Ecuador, and was in a real state. I had no money and no way home, I was sat in a net caff close to tears.

I called HSBC in India to cancel my card, and my telephone log in at the time was 040805. So I got some cash from someone, called up and they asked for my first, third and fifth digits: 0-0-0. Except the person on the phone didn't seem to understand this. So I was basically shouting this down the phone at her, then the whole sequence before she said sorry, she couldn't help. I probably swore at her, hung up then had to call again (not cheap). Eventually it did get sorted, but has left a real sour taste in my mouth about call centres abroad, especially when dealing with potentially vital things like flight tickets and bank issues.

Clem_Snide

Had a similar problem with Barclays. They flagged my debit card because I made two largeish purchases within 5 mins, both online. Didn't know they'd done it till I had my card declined in Sainsburys two days later.

Rang and got an Indian call centre. Literally couldn't understand a word the bloke was saying. Tried to tell him that but he ignored me. He was asking security questions and taking my responses of "I can't understand you" as failed responses. Without any warning he then tells me he has suspended my card and account due to failing security.

I went ape shit, was in the branch and one of the advisors overheard and took me into a room. She cleared me through security and rang the same call centre. Took her 90mins to get them to reactivate the account. By the time she was finished she was as angry as me.

She explained that the staff work to scripts and if they veer off them 3 times in a day they face instant dismissal.

Leroy Ambrose

Call centres were invented to drive down staffing costs and maximise profits - 'customer service' as a concept has been dead for twenty years. What you experienced was nothing to do with a difference in culture, or with jobsworths. The whole idea of call centres is to make it as difficult as possible for you to complain, because there are a huge number of people who will just give up and put up with whatever shit they're being told. The call centre you got throught o may have been in India, but it could just as well have been in Sheffield, Newcastle or Glasgow - they are paid shit money, for a shit job, that as a result they couldn't give a shit about - and told not to deviate from the script no matter what the cost.

Call centres are just another one of those things you have to mark down as 'things you can't do anything about' and get on with your life.

Kap10

Rob said:

Kap10 said:

Agree with that but you fail to take responsibility yourself. None of this aggro would have happened if you had checked the email in the first place.

I do recognise that. The fact is I didn't though. Probably because I've booked so many of these myself online in the past with no problem that I just didn't think that they could have made a mistake. 100 lines. 'Need to be more careful in the future.' :-) I have learned from this though. I do think the India office could have been more, what's the word, sensitive, to what was going on.

They can't be, having run Indian call centres we give them no flexibility for initiative. That said the organisation should have had better procedures to enable you to discuss it up the line. £175 is not a big cost for good customer service and long term loyalty. Don't blame the individual blame the company.

Algarveaddick

Leroy Ambrose said:

Call centres were invented to drive down staffing costs and maximise profits - 'customer service' as a concept has been dead for twenty years. What you experienced was nothing to do with a difference in culture, or with jobsworths. The whole idea of call centres is to make it as difficult as possible for you to complain, because there are a huge number of people who will just give up and put up with whatever shit they're being told. The call centre you got throught o may have been in India, but it could just as well have been in Sheffield, Newcastle or Glasgow - they are paid shit money, for a shit job, that as a result they couldn't give a shit about - and told not to deviate from the script no matter what the cost.

Call centres are just another one of those things you have to mark down as 'things you can't do anything about' and get on with your life.

Bugger. That's where I have been getting it all wrong! Just lie down and let them shit all over me, what a fool I have been... You should be an MP Leroy.

Leroy Ambrose

Haha. I used to get irate to the point of wanting to punch things. A few years back I had an epiphany. It's pointless railing about it, because when there is literally nothing you can do about something that pisses you off, the only thing that getting worked up about it does is get you more pissed off.

Algarveaddick

Take your point, but what's that old saying about all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing about it? Not quite the same I know, but similar?

McBobbin

HSBC are dreadful. My wife had whet account frozen when we were back packing across Australia. I won't note you with the details, but we took our business elsewhere in the end because of their atrocious customer service

RedPanda

McBobbin said:

HSBC are dreadful. My wife had whet account frozen when we were back packing across Australia. I won't note you with the details, but we took our business elsewhere in the end because of their atrocious customer service

I should have bloody left them by now as well. Somehow a few months ago they allowed someone to log in to my telephone banking and order a new card out to an address in Brixton. Of course, it wasn't their fault despite me never having written down my new code, let alone told anyone.

McBobbin

RedPanda said:

McBobbin said:

HSBC are dreadful. My wife had whet account frozen when we were back packing across Australia. I won't note you with the details, but we took our business elsewhere in the end because of their atrocious customer service

I should have bloody left them by now as well. Somehow a few months ago they allowed someone to log in to my telephone banking and order a new card out to an address in Brixton. Of course, it wasn't their fault despite me never having written down my new code, let alone told anyone.

Never too late. I'm with the co-op now and they seem to be much nicer. They say a man is more likely to change his wife than his bank... We'll have to see about that!

LoOkOuT

I'd bet, in addition to Leroy's point, there's also an issue of performance indicators and "targets" that the outsourced call centre must meet that the American staff aren't under, or restricted to. If the call centre sends out a free modem, or waives a fee I'm sure there will be financial penalties to the centre and the person who answered the call.

North Lower Neil

Deal with Aviva, Zurich a lot at work and call centres aborad - it's a script, you go off what's expected in the script, they struggle. Exceptions of course, but not often.