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Away vs Home Form

edited February 2013 in General Charlton
We are very effective away and what is clear is that a big reason for this is that we are one of the best -if not the best - side at pressing in the division. In the first half against Palace we were awesome in all honesty. A tendency to sit back a little too much has cost us a few points and we are still learning tactically, but we could well potentially be the best away side in the league.

But when you look at our home form, we rarely have a comfortable match, and find it hard when teams do to us what we do to them away. We clearly have to find a way to gain more success at the Valley. Chrissy has tried some different things but what do we need to do to get the desired improvement? And if we do it, will it take away from our away performances?

A simple question with an elusive answer. One that if we crack, may mean promotion next season, so quite an important one. Any thoughts what the solution is?

Comments

  • Yesterday[against forest] before the sending off the players would have felt the fear and frustration of the crowd when we hardly touched the ball or got in their half.The ironic cheers we gave after 20 mins or so when a 5 yard pass found a charlton player must have demoralised the players,
    Away from home the exact same performance would have frustrated the forest fans [home fans]as they had lots of possession and hadnt scored.
    Thats it !we play home games behind closed doors.
    Seriously if you havnt got the players capable of dominating possession then you are better off away from home as that is what our players can do best-stop the opposition.At home the crowd expects to be entertained[by the home team].
    The valley crowd are very patient but it is not fun going to the valley this season but at least we will [probably] survive to fight another day[season].
  • One thing which I notice at home and have done for years is that no one from the midfield runs into the box. When we counter there's no one following up. Let's take a few more risks at home 2 up front and quick wingers with overlapping full backs give the opposition something to worry about
  • Perhaps we should be looking at the defining moments that turned the Cardiff game around at home.

    For me, it was one player - JJ - taking the game by the scruff of the neck and busting a gut to regain not only some ground on the scoreboard but also to show his team mates AND the crowd just what was possible.

    This in turn started the chain reaction of confidence growing on the pitch and on the terraces with the "12th man" becoming an important component in the final result.

  • The players have come out and said it themselves numerous times - the moaning of the crowd produces so much pressure.

    Not many seem to have listened to them though.

    There seems to be a sort of mentality amongst the home support that you see a lot in Spain. Berating if something goes wrong but refusing to acknowledge effort and attitude unless there is always a result behind it.
  • Simple solution.
    Take the team out of London on friday as if there playing away and bring them back on saturday.
  • edited February 2013
    Home form - 23rd
    Away form - 4th
  • cafctom said:

    The players have come out and said it themselves numerous times - the moaning of the crowd produces so much pressure.

    Not many seem to have listened to them though.

    There seems to be a sort of mentality amongst the home support that you see a lot in Spain. Berating if something goes wrong but refusing to acknowledge effort and attitude unless there is always a result behind it.

    Yeah....it's all the fans fault. If a pro footballer cannot mentally cope with a few ironic cheers when the team after 30 mins or so, finally string 3 passes together, then something is very wrong.

    Given the utter dross served up at home our crowd have been very patient.

    From the off yesterday we were flat, our pressing and harrying was totally non-existant. Forest won at a canter and were never stretched.

    If our precious little soldiers think they are getting a hard time, they should try the bile and venom spat out at places like Elland Rd.

    I can happily accept being beaten by a vastly superior footballing team such as Forest. What I can't accept is the midfield strolling around like it is a Sunday afternoon kick about.

    Many more home "performances" like yesterday and rest assured the crowd will turn.
  • edited February 2013
    I would pay footballers minimum wage and then offer a hefty win bonus. Soon buck their ideas up then.

    I think booing/ jeering is counterproductive and wont do it but at the same time they need to grow some balls and get on with doing what they are paid handsomely to do by people who would love a chance to do it.

    They're kicking a ball round in front of fans not performing open heart surgery in the trenches.

    Another example of the namby pamby, touchie feelie, let's make sure little Johnny's feelings aren't put out society we find ourselves in.

    Muppets.


  • "rest assured the crowd will turn" says clem_snide.If it does we go down .If it doesnt we stay up.simples .Yes it is our responsibility to support the team .If you expect charlton to play pretty football stay at home cos it will just upset you if you go watch it as we havnt got the players.but if we stick together we can improve next season.grow up.
  • You can play the crowd a bit better - 4-5-1 puts the crowd on notice of moaning from the start. A crowd likes attacks and graft - I won't accuse the team of not grafting but maybe we could attack a bit more at the Valley!
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  • Great post Rodney.
  • Do you read the daily mail by any chance Rodney?
  • Always had the idea of footballers having a basic wage, no win bonus or goal bonus or appearance bonus or clean boots bonus or any other stupid way of boosting an already ridiculous salary.

    Basic wage...you then get 100% if you win, 50% if you draw and 10% if you lose.

    I know it's not as simple as that but wish it could be.
  • edited February 2013
    timken said:

    Do you read the daily mail by any chance Rodney?

    Cant stand that paper. It's the Sun with less tits and a wider vocabulary with an unhealthy paranoid obsession with Diana's memory being desecrated by asylum- seeking muslim pregnant chavs.

    Dont read any paper really as dont need to pay someone to tell me what to think when I can just log on here for that for free ;-)



  • timken said:

    "rest assured the crowd will turn" says clem_snide.If it does we go down .If it doesnt we stay up.simples .Yes it is our responsibility to support the team .If you expect charlton to play pretty football stay at home cos it will just upset you if you go watch it as we havnt got the players.but if we stick together we can improve next season.grow up.

    My point is so far the crowd have in my opinion been very patient and this "toxic" atmosphere people are waffling on about simply does not exist.

    Barring the odd silver lining, home games have been turgid affairs and many have alluded to the fact home games are swiftly becoming a chore.

    It is my opinion that if we serve up many more performances like yesterday then the crowd will start getting on players backs.

    As for your suggestion that I stay at home, I'll continue to attend thanks.

  • crowd booed Leicester at half time on Tuesday - if the performance is poor most teams get stick. If they are winning, the crowd will forgive. If they are attacking the crowd get behind the team. i don't think it is any different at the Valley to anywhere else.

    What I don't like is where the crowd urge the ball to go aimlessly forward, but that is a completely different issue.
  • timken said:

    Do you read the daily mail by any chance Rodney?

    Cant stand that paper. It's the Sun with less tits and a wider vocabulary with an unhealthy paranoid obsession with Diana's memory being desecrated by asylum- seeking muslim pregnant chavs.

    Dont read any paper really as dont need to pay someone to tell me what to think when I can just log on here for that for free ;-)



    Great description of said paper - I laughed out loud!
  • Clem -snide .I didnt suggest you stay at home.I suggest anyone who expects charlton to play pretty football with the players we have should stay at home.This is meant not as a critisism of anyone but just pointing out that we know what we are going to get.lots of running and hard work.No pretty football .some good results[not many].If you go expecting anything else you will be upset.I hope that crowds dwindle rather than "turn"if current performances continue as it could be disasterous if the crowd does turn cos the team spirit[which is good] will disintegrate.
  • edited February 2013
    I agree with timken. Generally, our midfield is not good enough to play good attacking football at this level. They do not have enough skill, passing ability, strength or the legs, to get up and down for 90+ mins.

    Pritchard was playing non league football until recently. Wilson was playing League 1 football with Stevenage. Jackson was more recently at Colchester & Notts C. Green was at D&R. Waggy from the academy. Hollands from Bournemouth. Dervite form Spurs Academy. Stephens couldn't get into Soton's Championship team & not even the league 1 team, most of the time. They are playing above themselves.

    This is no ones fault. If we haven't got the money, then we can't improve.

    We get the results away, because you don't need these assets to such a high level.

    We can sit back, keep our shape & close down the opposition. We can then hit them on the break or get a goal from a set piece.

    I know it's not always like this, but generally it is.

    They need our support at home to help & encourage them. I know it's not easy, but we've got to do it.
    I'll hold my hands up & say I got really peed off on Saturday, as they didn't appear to be trying right from the KO.
    Bizarrely, it was the same at Forest A.
    Perhaps the win at Leicester took too much out of them. But I find it strange that they seemed to show little passion & committment straight from KO. I could have understood it, if we faded 2nd half.
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  • Great summary, CE.
  • By putting out the same side that won at Leicester I guess CP was thinking that if we played the same way we could win at home also. That does seem logical to me, but it doesn't seem to have worked any more than the countless other permutations that have been tried.

    Some won't like me saying this but the relentlessly positive nature of the way support does seem likely to be having an impact on the way the players perform. I'm not saying that the support is not relentlessly positive at the Valley because I rarely get to any home games. But there is definitely a feeling of unanimity between players and the away faithful. Perhaps the away results have nothing to do with that.
  • edited February 2013

    By putting out the same side that won at Leicester I guess CP was thinking that if we played the same way we could win at home also. That does seem logical to me, but it doesn't seem to have worked any more than the countless other permutations that have been tried.

    Some won't like me saying this but the relentlessly positive nature of the way support does seem likely to be having an impact on the way the players perform. I'm not saying that the support is not relentlessly positive at the Valley because I rarely get to any home games. But there is definitely a feeling of unanimity between players and the away faithful. Perhaps the away results have nothing to do with that.

    Yes, I was chatting to my brother about this before the game and I would have done the same as Chrissy. But what I did say was that - 4-5-1 might not work at home - depending on the opponents- and I would have a plan B ready, and if after 25/30 mins I could see it wasn't working I wouldn't wait until half time. I think Chrissy held off because they were dominant but weren't creating and the plan was to work on a new tactical approach at half time - hopefully with the score still at 0-0. I think that was fair enough as we went in 0-0 anyway. Very hard to legislate for a silly act of petulance from Yann.

    What I feel some people don't seem to realise is that it is much harder for a midfielder when his team mates are tightly marked. Sometimes that is the difference between looking good or bad - not the lack of ability of the player. Our 4-5-1 was being played too well by Forest and the midfield had no easy balls and Kermogant (despite doing well I thought up to the point he went) was getting frustarted by the lack of opportunities.


  • I am with Clem on this one.

    Booing and moaning during a game is counter-productive and puts pressure on the team but any crowd, however loyal, will go a bit flat if after 40 mins at home there has not been one attacking move, one strong tackle, one decent pass or any sign of winning ambition or general enthusiasm.

    Its hard to roar and clap with delight for 90 minutes as you watch the ball being lumped up to a lone forward for the 78th time who then flicks the ball on to an imaginary second forward while the midfield stand flat footed and gawping from 40 yards away.

    I wish someone would explain how this tactic has been so successful away?
  • maybe the away form might increase our travelling numbers at the expense of home numbers and our ratio will look better
  • If defence sits on 18 yd line, DS is islolated with little movement in front. If they push up to halfway, he has a1-2 option allowing him to outmanouvre & move forward. Defensive clearances can be pumped back in. We cannot invite teams on at home.
  • Some of the trouble is that when we have played a bit better (Birmingham) we can't get the result, so it's lose/lose for us that can't make the away games.

    I think the managers and the players need to be a bit more positive. They looked lacklustre from the off vs Forest and it cost them as although Forest were the better side, the players should've and could've given a better account of themselves.

    As for us fans, I think we are pretty patient and forgiving. If you get served up dross from the 1st minute without any improvement, it hardly makes you enthusiastic.
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