like every league manager he needs to work with the players he has and that includes bench players to meet the needs if as many given situations.
And which of those players on the bench met the needs of that particular situation yesterday? I said I don't think he trusted the players on the bench to do a job keeping it tight. Not that he didn't trust them full stop.
With the resources Powell has, he has done an incredible job thus far.
I can understand it more if we hadn't been struggling to get out of our own box. Wednesday are big and powerful yes but bloody awful and by not attacking because your players are too damned tired to run thus inviting a big powerful team to pump long balls into your penalty box at will is for a manager not to see quite baffling. If we had put on fresh legs and tried to score a goal against tiring lumbering poor quality Wednesday defenders I think this might not be the defeat we are currently dissecting. Love SCP but this one he got very badly wrong.
I was half expecting Dervite to come on. Could of been for Pritch or Stevens I suppose.
I felt Yann was doing really well up front on his own though, winning everything that came at him and flicking the ball in to dangerous positions. I don't think Fuller would of worked half as hard as big Yann.
I was half expecting Dervite to come on. Could of been for Pritch or Stevens I suppose.
I felt Yann was doing really well up front on his own though, winning everything that came at him and flicking the ball in to dangerous positions. I don't think Fuller would of worked half as hard as big Yann.
Please do not think I'm digging your posts out but just offering an alternative. Yann was jumping for headers and working tirelessly on his own and by seventy minutes was spent as an effective outlet and unable to close down and harrass the centre backs. Fuller at that point could have been more effective. Wilson was not involved by seventy minutes and on the whole had a poor ish game anyway. He could have brought on Dervite for Wilson and pushed Pritch wide. Would have then kept the shape if that's what he wanted to do. You have a bench of substitutes for a reason.
I would much rather see CP try substitutions that do not come off that not try anything at all. There was no need to tinker with the formation at all, Fuller for Kermorgant is a like for like that would give us a bit of a boost and Wednesday something to think about. Even bring Harriot on for Wilson, speed on the break to give us an outlet. Wednesday were very slow, methodical, predictable, boring in attack, but it didn't matter because it worked. If Wagstaff had not essentially been running at the entire defence on his own (with honourable mention to Yann, who was knackered) they may have been susceptible to an attack on the break.
After 70/75 minutes I would have liked to have seen Devitte come on for Bradley Pritchard to give us more steel, and perhaps later Cort for Stephens to counter the threat of Wednesday having 4 strikers and to counter their height and muscle. Pritch is a great player but outmuscled today against a tough side.
What substitutions? I went with a complete neutral (Chelsea fan actually) who said at the end that in his 60 years of watching football, he'd never seen anything quite like it. He was as angry as hell and he wasn't even a Charlton fan! To say we didn't have any suitable options on the bench is absolute rubbish. With Fuller up front Wednesday would have been very wary of committing so many men forward. Fuller was more than capable of tearing that defence to shreds and Yann was knackered. Wilson was also knackered, but according to some Green is such a vastly inferior player that they'd rather keep a knackered Wilson on the pitch. They've obviously completely forgotten that Green was our star player for the first 4/5 games! We needed some speed and some fresh legs up front, any of Green, Harriet or Fuller would have helped. As would Dervite as a holding midfielder or Cort for a tiring Taylor. Powell had numerous options, but seems to have it in his head that he won't use a sub before the 80th minute. We were still winning in the 80th, so his plan was working. But it was so blatantly obvious that we couldn't hold on, there were simply too many shots peppering our goal, and once the equaliser duly arrived there was only going to be one winner unless he made a change, but still nothing.
What substitutions? I went with a complete neutral (Chelsea fan actually) who said at the end that in his 60 years of watching football, he'd never seen anything quite like it. He was as angry as hell and he wasn't even a Charlton fan! To say we didn't have any suitable options on the bench is absolute rubbish. With Fuller up front Wednesday would have been very wary of committing so many men forward. Fuller was more than capable of tearing that defence to shreds and Yann was knackered. Wilson was also knackered, but according to some Green is such a vastly inferior player that they'd rather keep a knackered Wilson on the pitch. They've obviously completely forgotten that Green was our star player for the first 4/5 games! We needed some speed and some fresh legs up front, any of Green, Harriet or Fuller would have helped. As would Dervite as a holding midfielder or Cort for a tiring Taylor. Powell had numerous options, but seems to have it in his head that he won't use a sub before the 80th minute. We were still winning in the 80th, so his plan was working. But it was so blatantly obvious that we couldn't hold on, there were simply too many shots peppering our goal, and once the equaliser duly arrived there was only going to be one winner unless he made a change, but still nothing.
What substitutions? I went with a complete neutral (Chelsea fan actually) who said at the end that in his 60 years of watching football, he'd never seen anything quite like it. He was as angry as hell and he wasn't even a Charlton fan! To say we didn't have any suitable options on the bench is absolute rubbish. With Fuller up front Wednesday would have been very wary of committing so many men forward. Fuller was more than capable of tearing that defence to shreds and Yann was knackered. Wilson was also knackered, but according to some Green is such a vastly inferior player that they'd rather keep a knackered Wilson on the pitch. They've obviously completely forgotten that Green was our star player for the first 4/5 games! We needed some speed and some fresh legs up front, any of Green, Harriet or Fuller would have helped. As would Dervite as a holding midfielder or Cort for a tiring Taylor. Powell had numerous options, but seems to have it in his head that he won't use a sub before the 80th minute. We were still winning in the 80th, so his plan was working. But it was so blatantly obvious that we couldn't hold on, there were simply too many shots peppering our goal, and once the equaliser duly arrived there was only going to be one winner unless he made a change, but still nothing.
What substitutions? I went with a complete neutral (Chelsea fan actually) who said at the end that in his 60 years of watching football, he'd never seen anything quite like it. He was as angry as hell and he wasn't even a Charlton fan! To say we didn't have any suitable options on the bench is absolute rubbish. With Fuller up front Wednesday would have been very wary of committing so many men forward. Fuller was more than capable of tearing that defence to shreds and Yann was knackered. Wilson was also knackered, but according to some Green is such a vastly inferior player that they'd rather keep a knackered Wilson on the pitch. They've obviously completely forgotten that Green was our star player for the first 4/5 games! We needed some speed and some fresh legs up front, any of Green, Harriet or Fuller would have helped. As would Dervite as a holding midfielder or Cort for a tiring Taylor. Powell had numerous options, but seems to have it in his head that he won't use a sub before the 80th minute. We were still winning in the 80th, so his plan was working. But it was so blatantly obvious that we couldn't hold on, there were simply too many shots peppering our goal, and once the equaliser duly arrived there was only going to be one winner unless he made a change, but still nothing.
I do wonder if managers have a different "view" standing on the touchline - I'm sure if CP was sitting with me in the East Stand then he would have seen a tiring Kermy and a lumbering LLera and would have changed it.
Just hope that CP has now learnt some lessons and the next time we are 1-0 up with 10 mins to go and needing to change things, he does.
You should write to him Golfie and invite him to come and sit next to you at the next game so he can benefit from your profound wisdom and learn the lessons you can teach him.
I do wonder if managers have a different "view" standing on the touchline - I'm sure if CP was sitting with me in the East Stand then he would have seen a tiring Kermy and a lumbering LLera and would have changed it.
Just hope that CP has now learnt some lessons and the next time we are 1-0 up with 10 mins to go and needing to change things, he does.
I said exactly the same thing to my friend when trying to think of some plausible explanation in support of CP who my friend referred to as being a "bloody idiot" which I wasn't too happy about! We were high up in the North Stand and looking down we got a good perspective of who still had some running in their legs (Waggy) and who were flat on their feet (Kermy and Wilson). From where Powell was standing he would have had a very poor view of Wilson across on the other side of the pitch. Perhaps having Dyer sitting up in the stand in the future might help them view things as the fans do.
You should write to him Golfie and invite him to come and sit next to you at the next game so he can benefit from your profound wisdom and learn the lessons you can teach him.
You should write to him Golfie and invite him to come and sit next to you at the next game so he can benefit from your profound wisdom and learn the lessons you can teach him.
I'm sure he would be eternally grateful.
Needless sarcasm IMHO
Really? I disagree, but you're welcome to your view.
To me the insinuation that Golfie knows better sat up in the East Stand and that Powell needs to learn the "lessons" that Golfie thinks he already knows is, quite frankly, absurd.
Doesn;t bother me that much though because I know Golfie is harmless really. Just think it's funny.
The lesson isn't from Golfie, it's from going 1-0 up to 2-1 down because our players were tired and no subs were made.
Yeah I get that, but it's the way Golfie puts it -
"if CP was sitting with me in the East Stand then he would have seen a tiring Kermy and a lumbering LLera and would have changed it. Just hope that CP has now learnt some lessons .."
It's given me visions of Golfie whispering in his ear, Keef Peacock-style, pointing out the things a mere ex-England international whipper snapper like CP would clearly otherwise have missed!
Jones changed the game with his subs and tactics switch imo he out coached/managed powell on sat. Its one game thou end of I still have faith jus hope powell learns to change games
Jones changed the game with his subs and tactics switch imo he out coached/managed powell on sat. Its one game thou end of I still have faith jus hope powell learns to change games
But Jones HAD to do something. His team weren't making any headway. He had nothing to lose by chucking on a few subs. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Jones changed the game with his subs and tactics switch imo he out coached/managed powell on sat. Its one game thou end of I still have faith jus hope powell learns to change games
But Jones HAD to do something. His team weren't making any headway. He had nothing to lose by chucking on a few subs. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
It worked alright, they looked like a completely different team. That's why Powell HAD to do something as well to counteract it, but he didn't. That's why so often when one team makes a substitution, the opposing team immediately matches it by also making a Sub. But in Wednesday's case they brought on 3 subs, meaning they had 7 tired outfield players and 3 fresh, against our 10 tired outfield players, on a heavy energy sapping pitch. Lita and Nadine would have been a real handful had they started the match, but coming on late against tired defenders meant that they were even more potent. Our best hope was to keep the ball up the other end, well away from them, but we couldn't because half the midfield and forward line were knackered.
CP just doesn't get it. listening to his interview on Radio London the reporter asks about the subs (or lack of them) and CP says that there was no need (at 1-0) and at 1-1 they were contemplating it, but by the time they thought about it (5 mins or so) it went to 2-1 and game over.
He then went on to say that the 11 on the pitch were all "in a good place" and were all doing their jobs - so hence no need. But he misses the point that surely any 3 others that could come on could "do their job" and that fresh legs could make a difference, let alone a change in personnel (Harriott on and Waggy swapping wings) could disrupt the opposition !!!
sometimes I wonder what it takes to get a coaching badge !!!
Now my question is I wonder how easy it is to come onto a forum and criticise the management team for a substitution decision?
It has taken two years for the new board and Chris Powell to get us back to where Pardew had us after 18 months - a mid table championship club...and we all know how his spell ended up 6 months after that... I remember Pardew's triple subs on 60 minutes and his "squad rotation" !!! I don't know much about the game technically but Powell (and Curbs before him) are fairly loyal to their players which might give a hint as to why we have a stable squad with very few heading out the door this summer.
Putting on subs too early is a vote of no confidence in whoever comes off UNLESS it is to change the formation (or to cover an injury) and will cause more grief within the club if it is a continuous policy. Having said that we could all see the game was going away from us ten minutes after we scored and we all wanted to see Fuller up against Llera just for the comedy value! Maybe someone from the manage team should be in the upper West above the dug out after half time to give perspective ?
Good point mentioned about changing it when under pressure... I really rate Cort but would I bring him on cold in the middle of what was going on? Don't think so... So they could've brought someone on but as long as the squad continues to develop and stay stable then all is good?
Comments
And which of those players on the bench met the needs of that particular situation yesterday? I said I don't think he trusted the players on the bench to do a job keeping it tight. Not that he didn't trust them full stop.
With the resources Powell has, he has done an incredible job thus far.
I don't believe many managers out there would take a risk by throwing on a few attacking players when you are 1-0 up with 10-15 minutes to go.
I was half expecting Dervite to come on. Could of been for Pritch or Stevens I suppose.
I felt Yann was doing really well up front on his own though, winning everything that came at him and flicking the ball in to dangerous positions.
I don't think Fuller would of worked half as hard as big Yann.
I do wonder if managers have a different "view" standing on the touchline - I'm sure if CP was sitting with me in the East Stand then he would have seen a tiring Kermy and a lumbering LLera and would have changed it.
Just hope that CP has now learnt some lessons and the next time we are 1-0 up with 10 mins to go and needing to change things, he does.
I'm sure he would be eternally grateful.
We were high up in the North Stand and looking down we got a good perspective of who still had some running in their legs (Waggy) and who were flat on their feet (Kermy and Wilson). From where Powell was standing he would have had a very poor view of Wilson across on the other side of the pitch. Perhaps having Dyer sitting up in the stand in the future might help them view things as the fans do.
To me the insinuation that Golfie knows better sat up in the East Stand and that Powell needs to learn the "lessons" that Golfie thinks he already knows is, quite frankly, absurd.
Doesn;t bother me that much though because I know Golfie is harmless really. Just think it's funny.
"if CP was sitting with me in the East Stand then he would have seen a tiring Kermy and a lumbering LLera and would have changed it. Just hope that CP has now learnt some lessons .."
It's given me visions of Golfie whispering in his ear, Keef Peacock-style, pointing out the things a mere ex-England international whipper snapper like CP would clearly otherwise have missed!
Its one game thou end of I still have faith jus hope powell learns to change games
http://www.thefa.com/GetIntoFootball/FALearning/FALearningPages/Introduction-to-football-coaching
Now my question is I wonder how easy it is to come onto a forum and criticise the management team for a substitution decision?
It has taken two years for the new board and Chris Powell to get us back to where Pardew had us after 18 months - a mid table championship club...and we all know how his spell ended up 6 months after that... I remember Pardew's triple subs on 60 minutes and his "squad rotation" !!! I don't know much about the game technically but Powell (and Curbs before him) are fairly loyal to their players which might give a hint as to why we have a stable squad with very few heading out the door this summer.
Putting on subs too early is a vote of no confidence in whoever comes off UNLESS it is to change the formation (or to cover an injury) and will cause more grief within the club if it is a continuous policy. Having said that we could all see the game was going away from us ten minutes after we scored and we all wanted to see Fuller up against Llera just for the comedy value! Maybe someone from the manage team should be in the upper West above the dug out after half time to give perspective ?
Good point mentioned about changing it when under pressure... I really rate Cort but would I bring him on cold in the middle of what was going on? Don't think so... So they could've brought someone on but as long as the squad continues to develop and stay stable then all is good?