Why we had to kick off at 13.00 at Watford

PragueAddick

I discovered before Christmas that it was, generally, "on police advice". Since it was the only game in the division to be so advised, and since I seem to have forgotten all the mass punch-ups and bad behaviour at previous games against Watford, I decided to use the Freedom of Information law to force plod to give more details. Today I finally got an answer of sorts.

You can read the full correspondence here. But the key passage is this:

Following enquiries within the Constabulary, I have been advised that fixtures were published on the
18th June 2012 following a meeting between Club representatives (Head of Operations and Safety
Officer) and Police to discuss the initial categorisation of each fixture.

The moving of the kick off time to 1300hrs was agreed at this meeting as a control measure to
minimise the potential risk of disorder and anti-social behaviour and was subsequently agreed to by
the opposing club and Football League.

There are no minutes of these discussions; therefore there is no information recorded or held by the
Constabulary.

The obvious question is; what risk? Looking at the overall records of the two clubs, I'd submit that it's as close to zero as a fixture in this division could be. Yet they got away with this, and Charlton agreed with it. Nobody in this process asked the customers how they feel about a game on New Years Day starting at 13.00.

Its not the worst example that has happened, nor are the police the only villains. But somehow we have to reassert ourselves as the customers who pay for both professional football and the police, and ensure that our voice is heard and remind both bodies that we are customers/taxpayers, and not primarily sources of "anti-social behaviour"

se9addick

Great work Prague, is it possible this could be raised at the VIP forum ?

PragueAddick

Nothing to stop anyone, the correspondence is there for everyone to read at the WhatDoTheyKnow.com website.

When is the VIP forum?

It would be nice to have research among our fanbase which validates my belief that most people prefer 3.00 as the preferred time for day games.

nolly

Why ??

shirty5

You should write in and ask why the Millwall game has been moved to 12:30? I can imagine you will get a similar answer.

se9addick

PragueAddick said:

Nothing to stop anyone, the correspondence is there for everyone to read at the WhatDoTheyKnow.com website.

When is the VIP forum?

It would be nice to have research among our fanbase which validates my belief that most people prefer 3.00 as the preferred time for day games.

I'm not even sure that's necessary, it's generally accepted that football matches kick off at 3pm unless there's a compelling reason not to, your reaserch has uncovered that there really wasn't - so why did our club agree ?

Nug

Can't see what all the fuss is about. If it was because you might be seriously hungover from the night before, is a couple of hours gonna make that much difference? Interested to know why it being 1pm instead of 3pm is considered a problem.

Plaaayer

Ben Kensell out!

JT

Richard Cawley ordered the early k.o

Greenster

Blimey, you must have some time on your hands !! 13.00 k.o certainly didn't go against us, the boys stayed in a hotel nearby & got the job done before the rest of the division even got onto the pitch...

paulbaconsarnie

Knowing us we'll replay the fixture.

oohaahmortimer

i got it changed so the front of the away end would look sparsely populated due to the early kick off

PragueAddick

shirty5 said:

You should write in and ask why the Millwall game has been moved to 12:30? I can imagine you will get a similar answer.

Sure but for that fixture their excuse at least has some historical basis in fact.

Chris_from_Sidcup

Some people have far too much time on their hands!

PragueAddick

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Some people have far too much time on their hands!

Took me about ten minutes on that website.

golfaddick

when football is the subject matter then us citizens seem to have very little power or voice at all. Football, especially English football, must be the only sport or pastime in the world where the usual laws of the land don't apply.

Try leaving a match at the New Den after the final whistle has blown and see if you are allowed to walk freely home without being told you have to wait around for 15 or 20 mins. This not just applies to local derbies - I remember being kept behind at various grounds in the past (wolves & villa sping to mind). When I ask I am told it is for my own safety, but I have never been in trouble with the police nor have I ever been involved in a "ruck" with opposition fans.

I can't remember being told I can't go home when I want after watching a game of cricket, or after visiting the cinema or watching a play in the West End..............so why after a game of football - especially when you may have a 200 mile journey ahead of you & you want to get away asap.

JT

golfaddick said:

Try leaving a match at the New Den after the final whistle has blown and see if you are allowed to walk freely home without being told you have to wait around for 15 or 20 mins.

We were this season.

Greenie

golfaddick said:

when football is the subject matter then us citizens seem to have very little power or voice at all. Football, especially English football, must be the only sport or pastime in the world where the usual laws of the land don't apply.

Try leaving a match at the New Den after the final whistle has blown and see if you are allowed to walk freely home without being told you have to wait around for 15 or 20 mins. This not just applies to local derbies - I remember being kept behind at various grounds in the past (wolves & villa sping to mind). When I ask I am told it is for my own safety, but I have never been in trouble with the police nor have I ever been involved in a "ruck" with opposition fans.

I can't remember being told I can't go home when I want after watching a game of cricket, or after visiting the cinema or watching a play in the West End..............so why after a game of football - especially when you may have a 200 mile journey ahead of you & you want to get away asap.

We all left together at The Toolbox.

ME14addick

golfaddick said:

when football is the subject matter then us citizens seem to have very little power or voice at all. Football, especially English football, must be the only sport or pastime in the world where the usual laws of the land don't apply.

Try leaving a match at the New Den after the final whistle has blown and see if you are allowed to walk freely home without being told you have to wait around for 15 or 20 mins. This not just applies to local derbies - I remember being kept behind at various grounds in the past (wolves & villa sping to mind). When I ask I am told it is for my own safety, but I have never been in trouble with the police nor have I ever been involved in a "ruck" with opposition fans.

I can't remember being told I can't go home when I want after watching a game of cricket, or after visiting the cinema or watching a play in the West End..............so why after a game of football - especially when you may have a 200 mile journey ahead of you & you want to get away asap.

You don't get the tribal rivalries in cricket, cinema going and theatre going. There are plenty of idiotic football fans that DO look for trouble.

BR7_addick

The early kick off meant there was less than 2 hours boozing before the game.
If there were people there intent on causing aggro then they're less likely to do so sober, simple as that I think.

golfaddick

ME14addick said:

golfaddick said:

when football is the subject matter then us citizens seem to have very little power or voice at all. Football, especially English football, must be the only sport or pastime in the world where the usual laws of the land don't apply.

Try leaving a match at the New Den after the final whistle has blown and see if you are allowed to walk freely home without being told you have to wait around for 15 or 20 mins. This not just applies to local derbies - I remember being kept behind at various grounds in the past (wolves & villa sping to mind). When I ask I am told it is for my own safety, but I have never been in trouble with the police nor have I ever been involved in a "ruck" with opposition fans.

I can't remember being told I can't go home when I want after watching a game of cricket, or after visiting the cinema or watching a play in the West End..............so why after a game of football - especially when you may have a 200 mile journey ahead of you & you want to get away asap.

You don't get the tribal rivalries in cricket, cinema going and theatre going. There are plenty of idiotic football fans that DO look for trouble.

Then keep THEM behind and let the the normal, law abiding citizens go on their way. Police survalance these days is pretty good & they usually know how the hoolies are.

killerandflash

shirty5 said:

You should write in and ask why the Millwall game has been moved to 12:30? I can imagine you will get a similar answer.

There is at least the possibility of trouble at that game (Charlton Palace certainly had some aggro outside), whereas Watford Charlton has no historical precedent to justify shifting the kick off time forward, as there is no rivalry between the clubs! Indeed, if you go by this board, there's far more chance of 'aggro' when we play the Massives on Saturday!

Henry Irving

The Safety Advisory Group would be a better place to ask than the VIP meeting (although Slater might have some views on Spanish policing methods)

Inbox Addickted on here as he's on the SAG group.

ExiledinManchester

The obvious question is; what risk?"

No, the obvious question is what categorisation?

randy andy

Regarding the Charlton agreeing part, I imagine they had little to no choice. The police dictate the times and the club's have to acquiesce unless they can come up with reason why the new time is unsuitable. I imagine "our fans would like a couple of hours more in bed after a heavy night" wouldn't force a rethink by the police. Of course, if the police wanted to seem accommodating the could just come up with a number of more unsuitable alternatives, thus forcing the clubs to agree to what the police want. For example they could have suggested an 8pm kick-off. With public transport running a sunday service that could have made getting back on tube and train very difficult.

DRF

Have you had your blood pressure taken recently? I worry that if kick off times get you worked up then life in general must drive you to the edge. A blood pressure test might highlight if you need to chill out a bit.

Stig

Personally. I'm glad it was earlier in the day. It allowed me to get home in time to enjoy the evening.

eldavide

Maybe Hertfordshire Constabulary would've advised a 1pm kick off on New Years Day against ANYONE Watford were due to play at home?
Storm in a tea cup?

Addickted

Henry Irving said:

The Safety Advisory Group would be a better place to ask than the VIP meeting (although Slater might have some views on Spanish policing methods)

Inbox Addickted on here as he's on the SAG group.

Addickted has seen and noted.

Addickted

PragueAddick said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Some people have far too much time on their hands!

Took me about ten minutes on that website.

And £10.

PragueAddick

Addickted said:

PragueAddick said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Some people have far too much time on their hands!

Took me about ten minutes on that website.

And £10.

Eh? Absolutely not the case. It's a website that helps people make requests under the Freedom of Information law, which is everyone's right. Because everyone's questions and the answers they get are seen by everyone else, it forces the authorities to answer more clearly and on time. It is strictly not for profit, and we have just set up a similar one in the Czech Republic, with their help. That's one reason why I take any chance to use the UK one, to see how it works in practice.