wouldn't bother me in the slightest if an individual who confessed to a heinous crime was put to death.
Stefan Kiszko was found guilty of the sexual assault and murder of an 11 year old girl. He confessed committing the crime to the police.
Mr Kiszko spent 16 years in prison and was assaulted on numerous occasions. He said he did not commit the crime.
Then it was found Mr Kiszko could not have been guilty.
To those that take the view that hanging should be brought back for extreme crimes and that if the odd innocent man should hang that is an unfortunate side effect, perhaps you should consider that the dead protest their innocence a lot less than the living.
After Mr Kiszko was released, the police looked again for the person who had committed the crime and found him. Had Mr Kiszko not been found innocent, would the police have looked again at the matter? Between the time of the murder and conviction of the actual killer, the killer sexually assaulted at least one other girl.
Clive Stafford Smith has recently released a book: Injustice; Life and Death in the Courtrooms of America' which is worth a read if you are interested in the subject.
I think whether you approach the book as being in favour or against the morality of CP, you will finish it being of the opinion that the nature of the legal systems both in the US and over here make it unworkable.
CSS comes across as being a throughly likeable bloke too and it is quite refreshing to see that he has devoted his career to the cause with very little financial reward. He would work for less than minimum wage on many cases and I have read that even now his legal work pays him something like £24k a year which is what most lawyers of his standing would earn in a month or two.
wouldn't bother me in the slightest if an individual who confessed to a heinous crime was put to death.
Stefan Kiszko was found guilty of the sexual assault and murder of an 11 year old girl. He confessed committing the crime to the police.
Mr Kiszko spent 16 years in prison and was assaulted on numerous occasions. He said he did not commit the crime.
Then it was found Mr Kiszko could not have been guilty.
To those that take the view that hanging should be brought back for extreme crimes and that if the odd innocent man should hang that is an unfortunate side effect, perhaps you should consider that the dead protest their innocence a lot less than the living.
After Mr Kiszko was released, the police looked again for the person who had committed the crime and found him. Had Mr Kiszko not been found innocent, would the police have looked again at the matter? Between the time of the murder and conviction of the actual killer, the killer sexually assaulted at least one other girl.
Yeah, lets think of a little story of people who got wrongly banged up, I'm on about people who film themselves raping young children etc. If their guilt is beyond any doubt, bye bye!
I could agree with the death penalty if Amercia had the lowest crime rate but it doesn't, it shows that the death penalty doesn't put people off comiting these horrible crimes.
It should never be introduced in this country as it goes against everything we stand for.
Cause they're all mental, don't compare UK citizens to US folk.
The point is it hasn't stopped crime in there country, we still have people who commit the same sort of crimes in this country but would it put them off doing it if they knew they would be put on death row, I very much doubt it.
We should keep certain people behind bars for life but I don't think killing them is the right answer
....and my point is they're mental and even the risk of being sent to death don't stop them. The US justice system is bollocks, that is why they aren't deterred from committing crimes because they know they'll sit on death row for ever and a day, I think in the UK, if someone is found guilty beyond and doubt of certain crimes, hang em the following day!
I personally think that to commit a lot of the crimes for which some people advocate CP you are in all likelihood mentally ill. I firmly believe that those sorts of people should spend the rest of their lives in Broadmoor but killing them is a hypocritical and totally immoral message. People always rant on about how keeping people in prison instead of executing them costs the taxpayers money but if you saw how much the total cost in the US to execute someone you will see it is actually far more expensive to have CP.
I personally think that to commit a lot of the crimes for which some people advocate CP you are in all likelihood mentally ill. I firmly believe that those sorts of people should spend the rest of their lives in Broadmoor but killing them is a hypocritical and totally immoral message. People always rant on about how keeping people in prison instead of executing them costs the taxpayers money but if you saw how much the total cost in the US to execute someone you will see it is actually far more expensive to have CP.
I could agree with the death penalty if Amercia had the lowest crime rate but it doesn't, it shows that the death penalty doesn't put people off comiting these horrible crimes.
It should never be introduced in this country as it goes against everything we stand for.
Cause they're all mental, don't compare UK citizens to US folk.
The point is it hasn't stopped crime in there country, we still have people who commit the same sort of crimes in this country but would it put them off doing it if they knew they would be put on death row, I very much doubt it.
We should keep certain people behind bars for life but I don't think killing them is the right answer
....and my point is they're mental and even the risk of being sent to death don't stop them. The US justice system is bollocks, that is why they aren't deterred from committing crimes because they know they'll sit on death row for ever and a day, I think in the UK, if someone is found guilty beyond and doubt of certain crimes, hang em the following day!
I am glad some of us has made it past the dark ages with our views and opinions.
I could agree with the death penalty if Amercia had the lowest crime rate but it doesn't, it shows that the death penalty doesn't put people off comiting these horrible crimes.
It should never be introduced in this country as it goes against everything we stand for.
Cause they're all mental, don't compare UK citizens to US folk.
The point is it hasn't stopped crime in there country, we still have people who commit the same sort of crimes in this country but would it put them off doing it if they knew they would be put on death row, I very much doubt it.
We should keep certain people behind bars for life but I don't think killing them is the right answer
....and my point is they're mental and even the risk of being sent to death don't stop them. The US justice system is bollocks, that is why they aren't deterred from committing crimes because they know they'll sit on death row for ever and a day, I think in the UK, if someone is found guilty beyond and doubt of certain crimes, hang em the following day!
I am glad some of us has made it past the dark ages with our views and opinions.
I personally think that to commit a lot of the crimes for which some people advocate CP you are in all likelihood mentally ill. I firmly believe that those sorts of people should spend the rest of their lives in Broadmoor but killing them is a hypocritical and totally immoral message. People always rant on about how keeping people in prison instead of executing them costs the taxpayers money but if you saw how much the total cost in the US to execute someone you will see it is actually far more expensive to have CP.
If you want to label them 'mentally ill' then fine.
But they still deserve to be put to sleep for the crimes they've committed.
They are no use to anyone locked in a cell, eating, sleeping, reading and watching TV.
Take for example Roy Whiting. An animal that brutally killed two innocent young girls. What use is he to anyone?
Yeah, lets think of a little story of people who got wrongly banged up
Or alternatively, it's a story of how a paedophile got away with sexually assualting & murdering a child for 30 years. The paedophile who would have probably got away with his crime forever had the innocent man who had been found guilty beyond doubt been hung. The paedophile who would have possibly still been committing further crimes against children had the innocent man who had been found guilty beyond doubt been hung.
What might be regarded as relevant, though paradoxically the programme is not about the death sentence, is the STORYVILLE programme available on the BBC iPlayer, about the war on drugs, called 'The House I Live In', especially the concluding 20 minutes or so (it is a LONG programme) where 'crime', 'punishment' and society's reactiion to them is discussed. Suffice to say that 'Law & Order' is BIG business and employs millions of people worldwide. No crime, no prisons, no murders or drugs .... a radical loss of jobs in the Law Enforcement industry
I don't necessary agree with the death penalty, find it hypocritical. We have no right to do such acts and neither do they. I see where those of you are coming from who want the death penalty introduced for those who no doubt deserve it. it’s a bit of a catch 22 for me. saying all this, if someone murdered/raped or whatever, someone i love. My opinion could and probably would change. However i rather they suffered for years than just kill them on the death penalty. but torture is even more frowned upon it seems.
If they was locked in a dark damp cell then I might agree with a lifetime in prison.
But those men on death row were allowed a basketball, a TV, books etc.
all things the people they murdered can't enjoy. How is that fair?
Agreed, im anti CP but think for the worst crimes life should mean life and not a nice one but executions hold society back.
Agreed.
I should also point out that whilst I believe in life sentences instead of the death penalty, I am with ValleyGary and GretnaGreenAddick on luxuries in prison. I did find it strange that the death row cells in Indiana, where according to the state, their most violent criminals are kept, were the biggest single prison cells I have seen.
If there is a chance that even one innocent person will be put to death, then I can't support death penalty. However, I believe that life should mean life, and that lifers should serve VERY hard time.
CP is certainly not a deterent, I'm not sure it reduces crime anywhere in the world. I actually believe its there for the rest of society, to make them feel safe, good will win and there is an ultimate price to pay. There is no answer to crime, better minds than mine have failed with this.
If they was locked in a dark damp cell then I might agree with a lifetime in prison.
But those men on death row were allowed a basketball, a TV, books etc.
all things the people they murdered can't enjoy. How is that fair?
Because you want nice co-operative prisoners who'll accept their sentence and not cause to much trouble. If you start to push long-term prisoners too far they might start to cause a bit of hassle - and/or decide that death by cop is the way to go and try and take a prison warder or two with them.
Depending on which prison they are jailed it costs around £14-£25k to house a prisoner per annum, obviously the costs increase with the security risk.
If they was locked in a dark damp cell then I might agree with a lifetime in prison.
But those men on death row were allowed a basketball, a TV, books etc.
all things the people they murdered can't enjoy. How is that fair?
Because you want nice co-operative prisoners who'll accept their sentence and not cause to much trouble. If you start to push long-term prisoners too far they might start to cause a bit of hassle - and/or decide that death by cop is the way to go and try and take a prison warder or two with them.
Depending on which prison they are jailed it costs around £14-£25k to house a prisoner per annum, obviously the costs increase with the security risk.
Sam Hallam, Sean Hodgson, Eric Glisson, Cathy Watkins, Dewey Bozzella, The Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six, the Carl Bridgwater Four, Barry George...
Just some of the people who have been convicted of murder in the last few years only to have their convictions overturned.
Sam Hallam, Sean Hodgson, Eric Glisson, Cathy Watkins, Dewey Bozzella, The Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six, the Carl Bridgwater Four, Barry George...
Just some of the people who have been convicted of murder in the last few years only to have their convictions overturned.
I could list the amount of wrong-uns sitting in cushty prison cells, while their victims are either dead or living with what they done to them for the rest of their lives, but I won't because I'd be sitting here typing till next week.
If they was locked in a dark damp cell then I might agree with a lifetime in prison.
But those men on death row were allowed a basketball, a TV, books etc.
all things the people they murdered can't enjoy. How is that fair?
Because you want nice co-operative prisoners who'll accept their sentence and not cause to much trouble. If you start to push long-term prisoners too far they might start to cause a bit of hassle - and/or decide that death by cop is the way to go and try and take a prison warder or two with them.
Depending on which prison they are jailed it costs around £14-£25k to house a prisoner per annum, obviously the costs increase with the security risk.
Surely it should be if you behave then you may get the access to books or hourly TV, and if you don't behave then you get the dark damp cell....not just give them a life of comfort straight away so they don't cause trouble.
Its always a hard discussion because you want justice on every side of it, more so for the victims of crime of course. There was a man on there last night that commited double homocide at the age of 13. Its likely he was always going to end up in prison at some point, but at the age of 13, 25 years ago, he was possibly too young, too stupid and too desperate to know any better. Yes he killed people, ruined their lives and deserved the appropriate punishment to give them the most justice possible, but at the age of 13, yes, you know what is right and wrong to be a big degree, but you could rehabilitate eventually and come out of death row. Its too young for them to be convicted for their whole life. Their judgment, morals and rationalality is weak compared to what they could be like at say, the age of 35. He may or may not have had a very rough upbringing, but when you are sentencing someone to death, those kind of things need to be taken into consideration.
The guy who committed double murder at age 13 was not on death row. His sentence was never the death penalty but double life sentence. As Dave21 comments I find it difficult to accept that there should not be a rehabilitation of this offender. If he is now considered not to be a danger then he should be considered for release. Doubt it will happen though. The American penal system if full of vengeance with little compassion or thought of rehabilitation. It's all very sad.
Stories like that add nothing to the debate, as nobody who is anti-CP is suggesting people like him are not the lowest of society but it's much better to have guilty people alive in what should be a terrible prison enviroment IMO then more innocent people dead, which always happens in a system of CP.
Comments
Mr Kiszko spent 16 years in prison and was assaulted on numerous occasions. He said he did not commit the crime.
Then it was found Mr Kiszko could not have been guilty.
To those that take the view that hanging should be brought back for extreme crimes and that if the odd innocent man should hang that is an unfortunate side effect, perhaps you should consider that the dead protest their innocence a lot less than the living.
After Mr Kiszko was released, the police looked again for the person who had committed the crime and found him. Had Mr Kiszko not been found innocent, would the police have looked again at the matter? Between the time of the murder and conviction of the actual killer, the killer sexually assaulted at least one other girl.
I think whether you approach the book as being in favour or against the morality of CP, you will finish it being of the opinion that the nature of the legal systems both in the US and over here make it unworkable.
CSS comes across as being a throughly likeable bloke too and it is quite refreshing to see that he has devoted his career to the cause with very little financial reward. He would work for less than minimum wage on many cases and I have read that even now his legal work pays him something like £24k a year which is what most lawyers of his standing would earn in a month or two.
But they still deserve to be put to sleep for the crimes they've committed.
They are no use to anyone locked in a cell, eating, sleeping, reading and watching TV.
Take for example Roy Whiting. An animal that brutally killed two innocent young girls. What use is he to anyone?
Get rid.
Not what you originally wrote.
I see where those of you are coming from who want the death penalty introduced for those who no doubt deserve it. it’s a bit of a catch 22 for me.
saying all this, if someone murdered/raped or whatever, someone i love. My opinion could and probably would change. However i rather they suffered for years than just kill them on the death penalty. but torture is even more frowned upon it seems.
But those men on death row were allowed a basketball, a TV, books etc.
all things the people they murdered can't enjoy. How is that fair?
I should also point out that whilst I believe in life sentences instead of the death penalty, I am with ValleyGary and GretnaGreenAddick on luxuries in prison. I did find it strange that the death row cells in Indiana, where according to the state, their most violent criminals are kept, were the biggest single prison cells I have seen.
I actually believe its there for the rest of society, to make them feel safe, good will win and there is an ultimate price to pay.
There is no answer to crime, better minds than mine have failed with this.
Depending on which prison they are jailed it costs around £14-£25k to house a prisoner per annum, obviously the costs increase with the security risk.
Sam Hallam, Sean Hodgson, Eric Glisson, Cathy Watkins, Dewey Bozzella, The Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six, the Carl Bridgwater Four, Barry George...
Just some of the people who have been convicted of murder in the last few years only to have their convictions overturned.
They are in prison. It should be a punishment.
http://www.gravesendreporter.co.uk/news/nathan_rawling_brutally_assaulted_one_month_old_baby_court_hears_1_1793800