When the F.A started messing with the format. ( round about the time United pulled out to play in the world club championship)
It was actually the FA that pulled Utd out of the cup so they could send them over to Brazil to play in a meaningless tournament in a bid to win FIFA votes to host the World Cup. Utd actually wanted to play in the cup.
For everyone else, three main start points of the malaise all at very similar times:
1. FA cup format as stated by Beds 2. When they introduced the Premier League and the bigger cash prizes for the league places meant that promotion became the sole aim of most lower division clubs whilst staying up became the sole aim of most Prem Teams. 3. When they upped the number of Chumpions League places based on league positions. In the good old days of the European Cup there was only one place. For anyone wanting to play in Europe the FA cup was therefore a top priority. Now it is more important to finish 4th in the league.
Here's a list of the FA Cup's winning clubs since the introduction of the Prem 20 years ago:
Chelsea (funded by Russian oligarch) 6 Arsenal (historcally big club) 5 Man Utd (historcally big club) 4 Liverpool (historcally big club) 2 Everton (historcally big club) 1 Man City (funded by Arab royalty) 1 Portsmouth (funded by a reckless board jeopardising the future of the club) 1
What a list of boring, horribly self-satisfied over-funded rubbish it is. No wonder the FA Cup has fallen in stature to levels previously occupied by the League Cup. 95% of the clubs in the league don't have a serious chance of winning, and for the few that do, it is considered to be the third prize. The FA needs to address this if they care about this competition. Unfortunately, the evidence of the last 20 years suggests that they couldn't give a toss.
I will say for the 1900th time there is no point if a club our size never comes anywhere near winning anything . Teams like Leicester with there carling cups and teams who get into finals are taken serious . We go in the top league on occasion and when we do we trundle along . Fucking have a cup Run you drips
When the games moved from BBC and ITV only and when there was more than 2 games in the early rds not played at 1500 on a sat
I watching Swansea vs arsenal in the bloody kitchen as its the only place I have espn and there are two matches on when there only needed to be 1 and it's on the wrong channels
Saying that this game has come to life since they bought on pickachoo
What's ruined the cup is the vast amounts of money clubs get for staying/reaching the Premier League. Thus clubs while like Man U and Chelsea can rotate a bit, but still put out strong sides, the mid to lower PL clubs who might previously have fancied a cup run are more concerned with staying in the PL. And even if they reach the final, they inevitably end up playing a Big 4 team in the final, with the only consolation being a place in the Europa League.
Further, as players tend to move around so much, there isn't the romance anymore. When the likes of Coventry, Ipswich or Soton won the cup, there were stalwart players there, for which the day would be their career highlight. If WBA played Sunderland in the final this year, would it be the career highlight of any of the players?
Love how people move the goalposts . Teams such as Pompey have won it of late , Everton no longer a big team like before , Cardiff get to a final , the league cup little Wigan get there and brum and Leicester have won it . We are useless
I'm not blaming anyone, but even for the reduced price of £15 I felt as though the club overcharged for what could have been regarded as a reserve team.
I think , Airman pointed out a few weeks back, that the FA rules regarding pricing for tickets is that £15 is a minimum that can be charged for these fixtures
Fair enough but the team put out and the performance could well have been worth £15 if the club (the players and/or the manager) had wanted it.
The FA are probably at fault charging £15 and having clubs pull in about a third of their normal gate. As I said earlier I don't know where the fault lies but no one seems to care and I suspect that even if the tickets were free next season we would pass on the game.
I'm not blaming anyone, but even for the reduced price of £15 I felt as though the club overcharged for what could have been regarded as a reserve team.
I think , Airman pointed out a few weeks back, that the FA rules regarding pricing for tickets is that £15 is a minimum that can be charged for these fixtures
Fair enough but the team put out and the performance could well have been worth £15 if the club (the players and/or the manager) had wanted it.
The FA are probably at fault charging £15 and having clubs pull in about a third of their normal gate. As I said earlier I don't know where the fault lies but no one seems to care and I suspect that even if the tickets were free next season we would pass on the game.
The FA can't be blamed for the £15 charge. Sheff Weds charged £10.
Part of the blame for the FA cup's decline can be attributed to the increase in & concentration of wealth in the EPL. As a consequence, the importance of the FA cup to clubs falls.
Some of the blame for the decline should be attributed to season tickets and the cost of the same. Some people have only so much money to spend and once this has been spent on season tickets, shirts, etc there is not that much money left for many people to spend on the FA cup. In the past season tickets were less common & tickets were in general less expensive, accordingly fans could afford the extra cost of FA cup games or could attend an FA cup fixture instead of a league fixture.
Don't think you can judge the number of comments as a way of saying that the Cup still means a lot to people. If that was the case, then a lot of our support are gutted about being out of the Capital One cup after the panic on here when we lost to Orient.
Judge it on how many bother to go. As you can see, not many are really bothered.
They don't go including me from next season because they are taken as fools!
For me the FA started to lose importance when the amount of TV money in the premiership started increasing. Even teams in the Europa Cup/UEFA cup have started putting out weak sides to save their best players for the premiership.
In a nutshell really.
Bottom half prem clubs would rather be out of it to concentrate on survival. Clubs chasing championship promotion would rather be out of it to concentrate on reaching the promised land. Clubs fighting off championship relegation would rather be out of it as they don't want to drop into league one.
So this leaves you with a handful of premier league sides who either have big squads or are safe, plus a handful of championship sides, plus a few others outside the top 2 leagues who actually seem bothered about it.
I was quite amused to see Arsenal field a full strength side at Swansea which was clearly only because Wenger is under pressure to win a trophy after so many years. In years gone by they'd have played reserves.
Should give winners of it a place in the champions league. You'd see some interest then!
Would much change?
As someone else posted earlier, these are the winners of the last 20 FA Cups:
Chelsea - 6 Arsenal - 5 Man Utd - 4 Liverpool - 2 Everton - 1 Man City - 1 Portsmouth - 1
It might encourage the teams below the 'big 4' to take it more seriously, once they started gettimg near the final, instead of fighting for PL place money, they might be resting players in the league to save themselves for the Cup!
Maybe Bradford would be better than 8th in League 2 if their eye wasn't on the cup , maybe they'd be lower without the moral of the cup run , who knows
Leeds had a decent cup run and their league form fell apart in our first season in League one but they still managed to go up automatically
Clearly the management at Charlton don't wanna risk all our top players and imo that's understandable because we could still get dragged in to a relegation battle, small chance that it could happen
That's fair, I wasn't picking on your comment. It just seems people think it's always one or the other and that it's impossible to manage two campaigns at once. I just think thats a poor excuse people use when knocked out early doors
Maybe Bradford would be better than 8th in League 2 if their eye wasn't on the cup , maybe they'd be lower without the moral of the cup run , who knows
Leeds had a decent cup run and their league form fell apart in our first season in League one but they still managed to go up automatically
Clearly the management at Charlton don't wanna risk all our top players and imo that's understandable because we could still get dragged in to a relegation battle, small chance that it could happen
That's fair, I wasn't picking on your comment. It just seems people think it's always one or the other and that it's impossible to manage two campaigns at once. I just think thats a poor excuse people use when knocked out early doors
You're ignoring the fact that many players only get into the 'first team' in these competitions. I don't like it, but I do understand. The alternative is to play reserve players in league games.
good luck to Parky tonight. (I think you can get Bradford at 4-1 to go through which sounds a good price given Villa's recent travails and Bradford's incredible shootout record).
Comments
For everyone else, three main start points of the malaise all at very similar times:
1. FA cup format as stated by Beds
2. When they introduced the Premier League and the bigger cash prizes for the league places meant that promotion became the sole aim of most lower division clubs whilst staying up became the sole aim of most Prem Teams.
3. When they upped the number of Chumpions League places based on league positions. In the good old days of the European Cup there was only one place. For anyone wanting to play in Europe the FA cup was therefore a top priority. Now it is more important to finish 4th in the league.
Here's a list of the FA Cup's winning clubs since the introduction of the Prem 20 years ago:
Chelsea (funded by Russian oligarch) 6
Arsenal (historcally big club) 5
Man Utd (historcally big club) 4
Liverpool (historcally big club) 2
Everton (historcally big club) 1
Man City (funded by Arab royalty) 1
Portsmouth (funded by a reckless board jeopardising the future of the club) 1
What a list of boring, horribly self-satisfied over-funded rubbish it is. No wonder the FA Cup has fallen in stature to levels previously occupied by the League Cup. 95% of the clubs in the league don't have a serious chance of winning, and for the few that do, it is considered to be the third prize. The FA needs to address this if they care about this competition. Unfortunately, the evidence of the last 20 years suggests that they couldn't give a toss.
I watching Swansea vs arsenal in the bloody kitchen as its the only place I have espn and there are two matches on when there only needed to be 1 and it's on the wrong channels
Saying that this game has come to life since they bought on pickachoo
Would love wenger to lose this
Further, as players tend to move around so much, there isn't the romance anymore. When the likes of Coventry, Ipswich or Soton won the cup, there were stalwart players there, for which the day would be their career highlight. If WBA played Sunderland in the final this year, would it be the career highlight of any of the players?
The FA are probably at fault charging £15 and having clubs pull in about a third of their normal gate. As I said earlier I don't know where the fault lies but no one seems to care and I suspect that even if the tickets were free next season we would pass on the game.
Part of the blame for the FA cup's decline can be attributed to the increase in & concentration of wealth in the EPL. As a consequence, the importance of the FA cup to clubs falls.
Some of the blame for the decline should be attributed to season tickets and the cost of the same. Some people have only so much money to spend and once this has been spent on season tickets, shirts, etc there is not that much money left for many people to spend on the FA cup. In the past season tickets were less common & tickets were in general less expensive, accordingly fans could afford the extra cost of FA cup games or could attend an FA cup fixture instead of a league fixture.
You'd see some interest then!
In a nutshell really.
Bottom half prem clubs would rather be out of it to concentrate on survival.
Clubs chasing championship promotion would rather be out of it to concentrate on reaching the promised land.
Clubs fighting off championship relegation would rather be out of it as they don't want to drop into league one.
So this leaves you with a handful of premier league sides who either have big squads or are safe, plus a handful of championship sides, plus a few others outside the top 2 leagues who actually seem bothered about it.
I was quite amused to see Arsenal field a full strength side at Swansea which was clearly only because Wenger is under pressure to win a trophy after so many years. In years gone by they'd have played reserves.
Would much change?
As someone else posted earlier, these are the winners of the last 20 FA Cups:
Chelsea - 6
Arsenal - 5
Man Utd - 4
Liverpool - 2
Everton - 1
Man City - 1
Portsmouth - 1
Actual champions in the champions league!
Mad I know ;-)
Would a club rather have a guaranteed 50m from another premier league season, or a champions league qualifier which they could well lose.
Premier league surivival would win every time and the big clubs would still end up winning the thing.
So what you're really saying is, is sack Powell and get Parky back.
haha not quite
(I think you can get Bradford at 4-1 to go through which sounds a good price given Villa's recent travails and Bradford's incredible shootout record).