He is saying the middle class ain't up for it as much as us Stella drinkers YEAH COME ON. I sat in the west stand last week. Them cognac drinkers clap when the goalkeeper picks the ball up. And they shout Bravo Charlton old beans bravo.. Get the corgi's out Charles......
We didn't sell out Millwall mate. I think that there is definitely an issue with our away support when compared with our home support number-wise. I think it is probably to do with the middle class nature of the fans that not only prevents any atmosphere being generated at home, but also restricts the number of committed away fans
I don't understand your argument - what's class got to do with anything?
We didn't sell out Millwall mate. I think that there is definitely an issue with our away support when compared with our home support number-wise. I think it is probably to do with the middle class nature of the fans that not only prevents any atmosphere being generated at home, but also restricts the number of committed away fans
I really don't think class has anything to do with it. We are a mid-size club in a saturated area for teams. We're not in the same bracket obviously as Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and West Ham, but probably in the same general bracket as Fulham, Palace, QPR, and Millwall (to a lesser extent). Other factors come into of course, where you are placed in the league, where you've been in the last couple of season etc. I reckon the noted disparity between our home attendances and away is probably down to the incredible job many have done in encouraging people to attend home games in the 20 years we've been back at the valley. Perhaps certain people would be happy if we had 10,000 averages for our home gates so the percentage going to away games effectively goes up?
Norwich, I would say have a largely middle-class fan base and have a massive away following and a waiting list for season tickets. Can't compare them to us as they have a captive market, but I reckon class has nothing to do with it.
Perhaps the "missing" away fans are all in the same boat, have comitments to families etc, were are a family club after all. I wonder how many of the RD will be attending away games in 5years time when they too will have other comitments.
What i mean is - the nature of the middle classes is to generally frown upon swearing, shouting and singing. The exclusion of these things prevents a loud, hostile atmosphere being created at the valley. This sedate atmosphere is appealing to our largely middle class fan base and so home attendances are high because many can sit quietly (in the east and west stands) a safe distance from anyone shouting. At away games, however, the atmosphere tends to be more aggressive and hostile and so these fans that make up the majority of our support are disinterested. This 'soft-core' base of support can be held partially responsible for our low attendances away from home.
Perhaps the "missing" away fans are all in the same boat, have comitments to families etc, were are a family club after all. I wonder how many of the RD will be attending away games in 5years time when they too will have other comitments.
To be fair tho if we get back to the premier league I am pretty sure when we play United, Liverpool and a few other teams the "missing" away fans will soon show up.
Perhaps the "missing" away fans are all in the same boat, have comitments to families etc, were are a family club after all. I wonder how many of the RD will be attending away games in 5years time when they too will have other comitments.
To be fair tho if we get back to the premier league I am pretty sure when we play United, Liverpool and a few other teams the "missing" away fans will soon show up.
This! I wonder if those with commitments etc will all of sudden make every game should we make it back to the big time.
In response to nug - Yes Norwich do have a middle class fan base but the size of the area in comparison with Charlton and the lack of competition from other teams means they will always have a larger fan base than us.
We have plenty of fans who travel a fair way to go to a home game (on the Valley Expresss etc), for those it's a big enough deal/expence going to the Valley, let alone going to away games. Back in the pre-premiership days most of our support would have been from SE London and NW Kent, and whilst this is still the case I would be pretty sure that the percentage coming up from further afield has risen, not sure what the allocation will be for Brighton but I reckon it will sell out even though it is a night game.
I think the point is for it to grow into something bigger so no matter how many have other commitments in future, there will still be a core at every game even if that happens not to be the original lads who have started this going.
In response to nug - Yes Norwich do have a middle class fan base but the size of the area in comparison with Charlton and the lack of competition from other teams means they will always have a larger fan base than us.
I did say you can't compare them to us for those exact reasons (just wanted to highlight that they have a generally middle class fan base). I do take your point about people being put off by excessive swearing/aggressive behaviour, particularly if they have kids, it's a dilemma for me with a 7 year old, don't agree about signing and shouting though we can all join in with that...and did at Watford.
What i mean is - the nature of the middle classes is to generally frown upon swearing, shouting and singing. The exclusion of these things prevents a loud, hostile atmosphere being created at the valley. This sedate atmosphere is appealing to our largely middle class fan base and so home attendances are high because many can sit quietly (in the east and west stands) a safe distance from anyone shouting. At away games, however, the atmosphere tends to be more aggressive and hostile and so these fans that make up the majority of our support are disinterested. This 'soft-core' base of support can be held partially responsible for our low attendances away from home.
Hastings addick We wont sell out Brighton and ill go on record saying that! Nug - yeah just seen that sorry only read it quickly. Does contradict your point about Norwich though.
It was just an idea to explain the disparity between home and away attendances anyway. More viable is probably Charlton being an attractive family club and fans having other commitments.
Friend or Defoe I have been to Chelsea quite a few times though not in last 4 years or so. They had the most fans arrested at games in 2011 and are generally working class and thus have more than one part of the stadium making noise.
I would say we are a family club but a working class family club and money is one of the main reasons people don't go away. Was it £32 for Ipswich? It don't need a lot of working out that away games are an expensive day out.
Hastings addick We wont sell out Brighton and ill go on record saying that! Nug - yeah just seen that sorry only read it quickly. Does contradict your point about Norwich though.
It was just an idea to explain the disparity between home and away attendances anyway. More viable is probably Charlton being an attractive family club and fans having other commitments.
Shouldn't be a problem getting a ticket then, nice little train journey along the coast from here.....either into Brighton or I'll stop off in Lewes.
What i mean is - the nature of the middle classes is to generally frown upon swearing, shouting and singing. The exclusion of these things prevents a loud, hostile atmosphere being created at the valley. This sedate atmosphere is appealing to our largely middle class fan base and so home attendances are high because many can sit quietly (in the east and west stands) a safe distance from anyone shouting. At away games, however, the atmosphere tends to be more aggressive and hostile and so these fans that make up the majority of our support are disinterested. This 'soft-core' base of support can be held partially responsible for our low attendances away from home.
That could well have a basis of truth. However, you could also add at the end - This 'hard-core' minority of support can be held partially responsible for changing the atmosphere of our support at away games and making it unappealing to the majority.
I'm not sure this middle class element objects to singing or shouting though, more flare throwing and potential violence. I think that is just the bias from the side that I suspect you put yourself.
On the whole though this constant bitching at each other is tedious. I would probably put myself in the middle class catagory in that I prefer to sit and watch the football on the pitch than stand up and sing and lose focus on the game in hand. I have had trouble in the past with aggressive fans at away games trying to tell me how to support my team, whilst clearly themselves having no idea what has happened in the game as they are far too busy swearing at the stewards / opposition fans / ball boys etc. Different priorities it seems to me.
But at Watford it was really enjoyable. Those who wanted to sing did, those who wanted to watch did. Nobody told anybody else what to do and there were hardly any empty seats whatever the TV told those at home.
Nug - youve compared us to Norwich saying they're a middle class club and then said we're incomparable in terms of size so bit of a null point isnt it?
I would say we are a family club but a working class family club and money is one of the main reasons people don't go away. Was it £32 for Ipswich? It don't need a lot of working out that away games are an expensive day out.
Bit of an old excuse this one isn't it? Definitely a fair point but doesn't explain why Millwall can match our away following with just 9000 some days at home.
How do you know what class people are at a football match? Apart for some lazy stereotypes about middle class people "don't like swearing" how would you tell? Sounds a bit insulting to working class people like me that I can't control my language or behaviour at football.
And this red division lot. How many are "working class" and how many "middle class"? Is it based on their parents or on their own jobs/careers? Who carried out the survey? At what income level do you jump from one to the other?
Nug - youve compared us to Norwich saying they're a middle class club and then said we're incomparable in terms of size so bit of a null point isnt it?
I didn't compare them to us, you said us being a middle-class club meant we had a small away following. I said they are a primarily middle class club and have a large following, hence I think class has little to do with our away following. Anyway my point was better put by Henry and apologies to any Norwich fans who are working class
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Norwich, I would say have a largely middle-class fan base and have a massive away following and a waiting list for season tickets. Can't compare them to us as they have a captive market, but I reckon class has nothing to do with it.
I wonder if those with commitments etc will all of sudden make every game should we make it back to the big time.
wtf
Some of the most active on the England scene in the last 20 years have been minted from minted families
Don't like swearing my arse some of those would cut your tongue out and snap your typing finger off for suggesting such poop
Nug - yeah just seen that sorry only read it quickly. Does contradict your point about Norwich though.
It was just an idea to explain the disparity between home and away attendances anyway. More viable is probably Charlton being an attractive family club and fans having other commitments.
I'm not sure this middle class element objects to singing or shouting though, more flare throwing and potential violence. I think that is just the bias from the side that I suspect you put yourself.
On the whole though this constant bitching at each other is tedious. I would probably put myself in the middle class catagory in that I prefer to sit and watch the football on the pitch than stand up and sing and lose focus on the game in hand. I have had trouble in the past with aggressive fans at away games trying to tell me how to support my team, whilst clearly themselves having no idea what has happened in the game as they are far too busy swearing at the stewards / opposition fans / ball boys etc. Different priorities it seems to me.
But at Watford it was really enjoyable. Those who wanted to sing did, those who wanted to watch did. Nobody told anybody else what to do and there were hardly any empty seats whatever the TV told those at home.
And this red division lot. How many are "working class" and how many "middle class"? Is it based on their parents or on their own jobs/careers? Who carried out the survey? At what income level do you jump from one to the other?