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Dead Wood

Started this thread not as a knee jerk reaction to the last two results but as a considered analysis of our season so far. Firstly I have no critisism to make of SCP. In my view he is the man to take us forward. Off the back of last seasons fantastic success there was not the investment in the team that I was hoping for and I suspect that was also true for Chris Powell. We are doing ok with what we have and our league position is in my view about right. This is the starting point. Where and how do we move forward from here. It was always the case that some of our players would thrive and others would fail the step up. It seems that the cull has already started with the disappearance of last seasons stalwarts, Hollands and the sidelining of BWP. In my view there is further pruning of recent favourites to be done unpalatable as that might be. Staying loyal to players is important but not at the expense of the overall well being of the team and club.

I am assuming that there will be funds made available in January and hopefully again in the summer. In my view it would be sensible to spend only enough this window to secure our Championship status with real rebuilding taking place at the end of the season. That does not alter the players that we need to consider as no longer part of next seasons future. I think the club needs to be ruthless. There are younger players like Cook, Bover and Harriot that are obviously still developing and I have not included this group and others in my own personal cull. Sadly I think we need to progressively replace Jackson, Kermorgant, Haynes, Kerkar, Green, Clarke,Taylor, Hughes, BWP, Hollands, Sullivan. I don't think any of those are going to take us into the top group of Championship clubs which is where we should be looking. I suspect that cases could be made for several of these based upon the players alongside them but on the whole I think this group is rightly so most at risk. Will the funds be available for this monumental change ? Well it's happened once.
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Comments

  • First very good post! Agree with most of your 'cull' but not with Jackson (is still our top scorer) and Haynes, who has the ability that all most every Charlton player doesn't tend to have pace!
  • cafc4ever said:

    First very good post! Agree with most of your 'cull' but not with Jackson (is still our top scorer) and Haynes, who has the ability that all most every Charlton player doesn't tend to have pace!

    I'd also add Kermorgant deserves the benefit of the doubt and more time. I think he'll come good he has only just come back from injury after all. Green has looked good when he's been giving a chance and BWP could score goals at this level.
  • edited December 2012
    I don't agree with a cull. Especially when it comes to Kermogant and Haynes.

    We need to change our style rather than our players.

    Get the ball down on the floor and play.

    Players like Yann have so much more to offer than challenging for headers.

  • Get the ball down on the floor and play.

    Never going to happen with yann uptop
  • C_A_F_C said:

    cafc4ever said:

    First very good post! Agree with most of your 'cull' but not with Jackson (is still our top scorer) and Haynes, who has the ability that all most every Charlton player doesn't tend to have pace!

    I'd also add Kermorgant deserves the benefit of the doubt and more time. I think he'll come good he has only just come back from injury after all. Green has looked good when he's been giving a chance and BWP could score goals at this level.
    Green has been a mixed bag. Couple of very good games early in the season but then some very poor performances.

  • shine166 said:


    Get the ball down on the floor and play.

    Never going to happen with yann uptop
    But why?

    CP can drill it into the players surely.

    The mans got great feet and a good touch.
  • edited December 2012
    Hate the expression "dead wood'.

    Yes, players come and go and we need to improve the squad as and when we can.

    But "dead wood"? Most of those players are honest pros who played a vital role in a record breaking season. Some respect due for that and just because these are human beings.

    I would question the assumption we'll have money to spend in January or next summer but that's for another thread.
  • Fair point Henry but I used it not out of disrespect to anyone but rather because it is an expression that everyone understands. I am certainly not suggesting any of them are not honest pros. Why would I ? I thought that Miguel Llera was an honest pro. I thought Deon Burton was n honest pro but it didn't stop them being moved on because the manager in this instance thought them not good enough. Sometimes you really are picky for no good reason.
  • No, I'm always "picky" as you so insultingly call it FOR a reason. That's the point.

    So what if it is a expression "everyone understands". Use a better one that isn't so insulting and dismissive. Don't criticise me for your inability to express yourself without using a tired innappropriate cliche.

    The players you listed were mostly not just "honest pros" but CHAMPIONS a few months ago.

    For you they are now "dead wood", for me they are still champions regardless of whether I think they deserve to be in the current team or not.
  • edited December 2012
    A 'cull' such as you propose would be nothing new. Powell outed lots and brought in lots of players a mere season and a half ago. There was a quiz question re: who scored a last minute equaliser v Swindon almost exactly 3 years ago. Of the 12 players who took the field for CAFC that day, only one, Wagstaff, is still at the club, and I suspect that his days are numbered.
    A radical and rapid turnover of players is usual at most clubs nowadays, it is 'the modern way'. Our current squad is too big and lacks variety and quality, yet has done moderately well in a tough division .
    I would like to see us go the Aston Villa/ Lambert, Liverpool/Rodgers route. Play the promising home grown youngsters REGULARLY and try to sign young promising players. The latter is part of the Powell philosophy yet he is loath to give any home grown young players a chance in the first team. If the youngsters are not up to it, move them on. This of course is a long term strategy. I know how fickle is the Charlton crowd. Many would not stand for a couple of seasons of struggle and development, far too many want glory NOW. And there is Powell's and the management's dilemma. In an era of instant gratification, there is far too little patience amongst fans and pundits. Jobs and careers are at risk unless 'growth' and 'development' are not only obvious, but almost instantaneous.
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  • Forgetting how we describe it (Please, lets not distract an interesting thread) the current squad look good enough to stay up but that is probably the limit of our ambition. In the short term that is good enough, but next season we need to kick on, so it is interesting to see who we think we should move on but also who we think could be taken from us and would help fund their replacements and an over all squad upgrade.

    The obvious departures that could happen are Solly and Stephens, with the possibility of Hamer. I would only expect 1 of those 3 at the most to go in January.

    If we get bids in I would not be unhappy to see Clarke, Hollands, BWP, Taylor, Sullivan, Green, Waggy in January and sadly Jackson in the summer. One of the keys though is that players only go if we can get others in that add to the squad. We do not want situations like when Abbot and Sodje went and we did not have adequate cover.
  • Doesn't it depend what our ambitions are ? I think the team we've got are sufficient to keep us this year but I don't think they'd get us into the top six much less promoted.

    Either way I don't think January is the time to be doing major amounts of business, let's consolidate this season and then kick on in the summer.
  • No, I'm always "picky" as you so insultingly call it FOR a reason. That's the point.

    So what if it is a expression "everyone understands". Use a better one that isn't so insulting and dismissive. Don't criticise me for your inability to express yourself without using a tired innappropriate cliche.

    The players you listed were mostly not just "honest pros" but CHAMPIONS a few months ago.

    For you they are now "dead wood", for me they are still champions regardless of whether I think they deserve to be in the current team or not.

    Henry, It really is unnecessary to spoil so many discussions.
  • No, I'm always "picky" as you so insultingly call it FOR a reason. That's the point.

    So what if it is a expression "everyone understands". Use a better one that isn't so insulting and dismissive. Don't criticise me for your inability to express yourself without using a tired innappropriate cliche.

    The players you listed were mostly not just "honest pros" but CHAMPIONS a few months ago.

    For you they are now "dead wood", for me they are still champions regardless of whether I think they deserve to be in the current team or not.

    Champions indeed and I will never forget the contribution that any of them made to that. However. That was then. This is now. Perhaps I should apologise for offending your sensibilities over the use of my tired inappropriate ( in your view) cliche. So sorry. I do think however that your post was unnecessarily aggressive and as quite often with your posts rather pompous. No doubt as is your usual MO you will seek to get in the last word. The floor is yours.

  • This thread was enjoyable for a while..
    Top post shooters hill
  • Anther one bites the dust........
  • Agree but would keep Haynes and Green
  • I think deadwood is quite appropriate for some players ie Clarke,Hughes.But not for others such as Hollands,Green etc.Perhaps surplus to requirements is a better expression.But let us not get bogged down with semantics as the general thrust of your thread Shooters I agree with.
  • I would get rid of hughes, clarke, wagstaff, sullivan and taylor. I feel green, hollands, Kermorgant, bwp and jackson still have a part to play for us, but shouldnt all be an integral part of the first XI.
  • Why do so many threads so quickly degenerate into petty point scoring and one upmanship? Thought it was a good initial post and understood the context in which deadwood was used - my concern in breaking up this squad would be the detrimental effect it might have on morale, seems we have a rare collection of players who fight for, not with, each other!!!
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  • Fickle fickle fickle... Win a couple of games on the run and all we need are "one or two quality signings", lose a couple on the run and we need a squad overhaul. We're a mid table side, we'll beat a few sides we shouldn't and lose to a few like the massives that we shouldn't.

    Evolution, not revolution.
  • Lol@henry , good post shooters I agree with what your saying.
  • Oakster said:

    Why do so many threads so quickly degenerate into petty point scoring and one upmanship? Thought it was a good initial post and understood the context in which deadwood was used - my concern in breaking up this squad would be the detrimental effect it might have on morale, seems we have a rare collection of players who fight for, not with, each other!!!

    This.

    I dont post a lot as i dont feel i can add much that has often already been said.

    In the spirit of this thread though this site is becoming as predictable as a bad cliche. Starting to feel it could learn a thing or two from twitter.
  • Oakster said:

    Why do so many threads so quickly degenerate into petty point scoring and one upmanship? Thought it was a good initial post and understood the context in which deadwood was used - my concern in breaking up this squad would be the detrimental effect it might have on morale, seems we have a rare collection of players who fight for, not with, each other!!!

    I think the morale point is a very good one. Yes it does seem that SCP has built up a very strong team spirit and a lot of credit to this current group of players for digging in a fighting for each other as we have seen on numerous occasions. Doesn't mean that any new players brought in cant show that same tenacious character.

  • Can we get rid of some of our "dead wood" fans at the same time?
  • Off_it said:

    Can we get rid of some of our "dead wood" fans at the same time?

    No we need them to show Koc we have a big enthusiastic fan base. :-)
  • So....Anyway...Happy Christmas to all Lifers. Am I on the right thread?
  • shine166 said:


    Get the ball down on the floor and play.

    Never going to happen with yann uptop
    But why?

    CP can drill it into the players surely.

    The mans got great feet and a good touch.
    Sit down Gary....

    Agreed.
  • problem i find is that we dont move the ball quick enough.theres no creative play in midfield and up front apart from haynes we are to slow.for me start fuller and bwp upfront
  • shine166 said:


    Get the ball down on the floor and play.

    Never going to happen with yann uptop
    But why?

    CP can drill it into the players surely.

    The mans got great feet and a good touch.
    Because I dont really think its a new problem, it was happening last season too.
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