by standing and obstructing those who can't see, isn't the way to go about it tho sash, in fact, it does the opposite and makes the powers that be less likely to accomodate those who break the rules.
how many of those standers from saturday are actively making waves towards getting a safe standing situation resolved?
apart from you sash, and handful of others, i doubt any of em are sadly.
Of course Suzi, and my attitude at the moment is that politness wins the arguement more then arguing.
Fans who want to stand need to lobby MPs, Ministers Chairman of clubs, and sign the petitions, picking fights with miserable old bastards like Richard Redden just cast everyone in a bad light
in Richard Redden letter of 7th March, he calls for a darconian response to people standing at Football grounds, following a small incident at a recent Charlton away game.
The Law on standing at football grounds was brought in following the Taylor report in 1989 following the Hillsbrough disaster, at the time, Seats were seen as the safest form of accomodation for Supporters, It should be noted here that thousand are standing in all-seater grounds today, Taylor’s prediction that people would become accustomed to sitting has not been borne out by reality.
A compromise solution needs to be found, the idea that policing football supporters harder, and forcing them to sit has failed since the compulsion for All seaters in the mid 90’s is one which Police authorities are loathed to do. Unless Mr Redden is suggesting supporters are seat belted down as they enter the stadium?
It is plainly obvious for all to see that we have moved on considerably in terms of stadium safety and design since the advent of the Taylor report, indeed modern terracing is so far removed from its pre Taylor counterpart that it has in effect been completely reinvented.
Why, when we have a situation where thousands of fans are flouting a bad law every week and are standing in seated areas are we not looking for a solution that is far more practical, indeed arguably safer than an enviroment where fans are now standing on seats?
This isn’t an issue that effects just Charlton supporters. There is growing disillusionment across the board from Chelsea down to Doncaster Rovers with the way our stadiums are designed and how they are being run and the resulting tepid 'Americanised' atmosphere that we are left with.
My own position as season ticket holder at the Valley, is one where I can see absolutely no reason why there cannot be safe standing areas in every football ground. I believe that for grounds with capacities of up to 30,000, then 10% could be given over to two safe areas on Euro style terracing. Access to these areas would be rigorously stewarded, and with a strict cap on the numbers for each area. This proposal recognises the causes of past tragedies and how to enable a return to SAFE standing areas.
The Government's position is pathetic. The latest Ministerial answers to questions tabled on this issue fall back on the discredited arguments about "no new evidence to suggest that there is a single more effective way of achieving safety as well as public order than all-seater stadia". Germany has shown this to be nonsense.
My advice to supporters who wish to stand is to lobby your MPs, found out what their view is, and see whether they have/will sign EDM 101. Also, put pressure on your Club Chairmen to support the idea, and for them to put pressure on the authorities to change their stance and, in turn, for them to pressure the Government. Argueing with fellow supporters only ruins the case and support for a sensible return to Safe Standing.
Unity and organisation can win through on this, but EVERYONE must play their part, do not leave it to someone else to fight your battle for you.
good letter Rothko, if i was to add anything i would mention the freedom of CHOICE which is wanted, which would end the arguments going on in the away ends around the country between those that wish to sit and those that wish to stand.
Why, when we have a situation where thousands of fans are flouting a bad law every week and are standing in seated areas are we not looking for a solution that is far more practical, indeed arguably safer than an enviroment where fans are now standing on seats? This soultions gives people the right of choice, the choice to stand in a safe area, and the right of choice to sit in a seat, without people standing infront of you.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]i don't know the guy, but there is no doubting he is a serial complainer, who gives the wrong impression of the average Charlton fan.
His attacks on the Charlton chairman board have been regular occurances since the ladies team took over Croydon.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]i don't know the guy, but there is no doubting he is a serial complainer, who gives the wrong impression of the average Charlton fan.
His attacks on the Charlton chairman board have been regular occurances since the ladies team took over Croydon.
I saw these two "tall fat guys" guys that Redden refers to; they were the two goons I referred to who were wearing the red baseball caps. It was sad to watch them turning on their fellow supporters on Saturday but they did soon sit down when the police started to move along the row towards them from both ends.
Have to congratulate the scousers. If anybody watched the game last night when it went into injury time it looked like every single fans was on their feet singing. That's what people want to stand and sing. It's nice to sit down to have a breather every now and then, but the atmosphere only happens when people are on their feet. Have you been to a really great night club where everybody is sitting down?
Exactly. The best bit of the atmosphere at Watford was when everyone stood up at the same time to give a rousing rendition of super alans red n white army.
I thought I would try and do my bit against west ham, I always stand until they kick off (superstition) and told the guys I sit with what your proposal was and they agreed to try unfortunately right on kick off everyone in rows behind sat down, as is their right, so being a well mannered group of chaps, we sat down, not being a legal expert, but I`m sure they were more entitled to sit, than we were entitled to stand, so we respected their wishes, despite the fact we are bigger , uglier and older we didn`t feel the need to hurl abuse. I would fully support a safe standing area, although I`m not to sure about standing week in week out, and as for "stand up if you love Charlton" do we really have to stand to prove that. good luck to you all if you wish to stand and if the 50ish rows behind us stand up, we will also stand as said in earlier post it certainly helps the atmosphere.
so here ends the first sermon.
"My advice to supporters who wish to stand is to lobby your MPs, found out what their view is, and see whether they have/will sign EDM 101"
good letter Rothko...this is the key point, signing petitions is one thing and will only ever have a limited effect, but not only do our MPs make the law but they are under political pressure, until they see a consensus for amending the law they will do nothing.
Comments
some may say he should be grateful the tall fat charlton fans who were rude standing up didn't sit on him :-)
On the face of it though his letter seems valid and reasonable.
The Law is an ass, and it should accomodate the desires of fans who want to sit, as much as it supports peoples rights to stand
how many of those standers from saturday are actively making waves towards getting a safe standing situation resolved?
apart from you sash, and handful of others, i doubt any of em are sadly.
His attacks on the Charlton chairman board have been regular occurances since the ladies team took over Croydon.
Fans who want to stand need to lobby MPs, Ministers Chairman of clubs, and sign the petitions, picking fights with miserable old bastards like Richard Redden just cast everyone in a bad light
Only 526 have bothered to sign the petition.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/StandUpSitDown/
One could easily conclude that an aggressive vociferous minority are trying to impose their wishes on a majority who wish to sit.
I'm not saying I draw that conclusion but a politician or civil servant evaluating response probably would.
I linked this a couple of weeks ago yet less people have signed than went to Watford!
in Richard Redden letter of 7th March, he calls for a darconian response to people standing at Football grounds, following a small incident at a recent Charlton away game.
The Law on standing at football grounds was brought in following the Taylor report in 1989 following the Hillsbrough disaster, at the time, Seats were seen as the safest form of accomodation for Supporters, It should be noted here that thousand are standing in all-seater grounds today, Taylor’s prediction that people would become accustomed to sitting has not been borne out by reality.
A compromise solution needs to be found, the idea that policing football supporters harder, and forcing them to sit has failed since the compulsion for All seaters in the mid 90’s is one which Police authorities are loathed to do. Unless Mr Redden is suggesting supporters are seat belted down as they enter the stadium?
It is plainly obvious for all to see that we have moved on considerably in terms of stadium safety and design since the advent of the Taylor report, indeed modern terracing is so far removed from its pre Taylor counterpart that it has in effect been completely reinvented.
Why, when we have a situation where thousands of fans are flouting a bad law every week and are standing in seated areas are we not looking for a solution that is far more practical, indeed arguably safer than an enviroment where fans are now standing on seats?
This isn’t an issue that effects just Charlton supporters. There is growing disillusionment across the board from Chelsea down to Doncaster Rovers with the way our stadiums are designed and how they are being run and the resulting tepid 'Americanised' atmosphere that we are left with.
My own position as season ticket holder at the Valley, is one where I can see absolutely no reason why there cannot be safe standing areas in every football ground. I believe that for grounds with capacities of up to 30,000, then 10% could be given over to two safe areas on Euro style terracing. Access to these areas would be rigorously stewarded, and with a strict cap on the numbers for each area. This proposal recognises the causes of past tragedies and how to enable a return to SAFE standing areas.
The Government's position is pathetic. The latest Ministerial answers to questions tabled on this issue fall back on the discredited arguments about "no new evidence to suggest that there is a single more effective way of achieving safety as well as public order than all-seater stadia". Germany has shown this to be nonsense.
My advice to supporters who wish to stand is to lobby your MPs, found out what their view is, and see whether they have/will sign EDM 101. Also, put pressure on your Club Chairmen to support the idea, and for them to put pressure on the authorities to change their stance and, in turn, for them to pressure the Government. Argueing with fellow supporters only ruins the case and support for a sensible return to Safe Standing.
Unity and organisation can win through on this, but EVERYONE must play their part, do not leave it to someone else to fight your battle for you.
Why, when we have a situation where thousands of fans are flouting a bad law every week and are standing in seated areas are we not looking for a solution that is far more practical, indeed arguably safer than an enviroment where fans are now standing on seats? This soultions gives people the right of choice, the choice to stand in a safe area, and the right of choice to sit in a seat, without people standing infront of you.
Not to mention the Street Party...
No, don't mention the F******* street party
so here ends the first sermon.
good letter Rothko...this is the key point, signing petitions is one thing and will only ever have a limited effect, but not only do our MPs make the law but they are under political pressure, until they see a consensus for amending the law they will do nothing.