Doping in Sport

Loco

I just listened to a five live report (podcast) about the Lance Armstrong scandal (seven times Tour De France winner, now revoked). Not only is the level of complicity is shocking, I'm talking about the team doctors etc, but also the suggestion that it is endemic in other sports too. One interviewee hinted at similar levels of usage and complicity in American football, I just wondered what people thought about doping in football (or now I've mentioned the American version should I call it Soccer :P). The five live report is well worth a listen, even if you are not a cycling fan.

colthe3rd

Keep meaning to download that so thanks for the reminder.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't something like that going on in football, cycling gets such a bad rep for it but as I understand so many are caught because they are quite strict on drug tests.

fattmatt

Not sure that football is the same. If sheer strength and speed was the be all and end all in football (soccer) then most players would be massive and run 100m in ten seconds. As it is most footballs seem to be smaller than average and nippy. I reckon that skill is far more important in football.

I'm not saying that no footballers use steriods, but I'd be surprised if it was anywhere need as common as it seems to be in cycling.

ColinTat

Human growth hormones make the difference. Although Steroids to return from injury and avoid injury would be important. Messi used HGO to grow, before competing, when he was young; no problem there but a medical reason soon transforms into a choice. Steroids in cycling are not a game changer, unless you're sprinting, or maybe a power rider on the flat. What was remarkable with EPO, steroids enabled a rider like Lance Armstrong to maintain a high weight/muscle mass and out climb the tiny expert climbers. Look at his pictures, in the modern era no other GC winner had such rippling upper body muscles, it was rare even for sprinters.

Both blood doping and epo would be crucial in maintaining your hemocratic levels. By maintaining that you increase the oxygen absorption in your blood, this is crucial to a team like Barcelona or Spain who play a highly energetic game. Over a long season hemocratic levels would significantly go down, when the body is placed under stress. Keeping them up would improve recovery, and massively improve energy/fitness levels in game. It is no surprise to me that England are so shocking in Euros/WC, but players are capable of competing in the Champions League: yes we are deficent footballing wise, but why do they complain of a long season when Barca and Real Madrid usually play more matches? A certain former West Ham player who's coming to the end of his career plays, looks like the perfect example who an above average player suddenly becoming a lung bursting world beater for his club. It is fanciful to think that cycling, which operates at a lowerfinancial level than the championship, is the only sport abusing EPO and blood doping.

maybe_baby

I remember many years back when a club asked for a match to be replayed because one of the oppo players had been found to be smoking puff before the game...performance enhancing lol, maybe in your own imagination.

Curb_It

There is suspicion everywhere!

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/08/12/bernstein-usain-bolt-is-probably-doping-and-you-know-it/

soapy_jones

Sorry when I saw the title of the thread, I immediately thought that the Charlton Team had been caught up in a doping scandal at our last home game against T'barnsley, would explain a lot.

SuedeAdidas

Didn't Mark Fish get special dispensation to use EPO as part of his recovery when he fell through a glass table "playing with his son"?

falconwood_1

It's a good job our fans aren't doped tested.

Loco

ColinTat said:

Human growth hormones make the difference. Although Steroids to return from injury and avoid injury would be important. Messi used HGO to grow, before competing, when he was young; no problem there but a medical reason soon transforms into a choice. Steroids in cycling are not a game changer, unless you're sprinting, or maybe a power rider on the flat. What was remarkable with EPO, steroids enabled a rider like Lance Armstrong to maintain a high weight/muscle mass and out climb the tiny expert climbers. Look at his pictures, in the modern era no other GC winner had such rippling upper body muscles, it was rare even for sprinters.

Both blood doping and epo would be crucial in maintaining your hemocratic levels. By maintaining that you increase the oxygen absorption in your blood, this is crucial to a team like Barcelona or Spain who play a highly energetic game. Over a long season hemocratic levels would significantly go down, when the body is placed under stress. Keeping them up would improve recovery, and massively improve energy/fitness levels in game. It is no surprise to me that England are so shocking in Euros/WC, but players are capable of competing in the Champions League: yes we are deficent footballing wise, but why do they complain of a long season when Barca and Real Madrid usually play more matches? A certain former West Ham player who's coming to the end of his career plays, looks like the perfect example who an above average player suddenly becoming a lung bursting world beater for his club. It is fanciful to think that cycling, which operates at a lowerfinancial level than the championship, is the only sport abusing EPO and blood doping.

Just to add to that, from the programme they spoke of transfusions, taking blood from a rider and keeping it until needed, then transfusing it into them to boost the red bllod cell count. Ergo no actual drugs were involved there but still it was cheating to improve endurance and aid recovery this would be done mid tour.

Bermuda_red

Rumours have surrounded cycling since the 70's. Due to the nature of The Tour, I'm not surprised. Has to be the toughest endurance event going.

A lot of talk about the Kenyan marathon runners now. The money has played a huge part, a lot of guys getting into it now and at a much younger age than say 10 years ago........

Loco

soapy_jones said:

Sorry when I saw the title of the thread, I immediately thought that the Charlton Team had been caught up in a doping scandal at our last home game against T'barnsley, would explain a lot.

Indeed it would but, not the performance enhancing kind :P

It is an interesting programme though Soapy, I'd recomend it. I'm not a five live listener usually but, this was very enlightening.

colthe3rd

falconwood_1 said:

It's a good job our fans aren't doped tested.

Indeed

colthe3rd

Loco said:

soapy_jones said:

Sorry when I saw the title of the thread, I immediately thought that the Charlton Team had been caught up in a doping scandal at our last home game against T'barnsley, would explain a lot.

Indeed it would but, not the performance enhancing kind :P

It is an interesting programme though Soapy, I'd recomend it. I'm not a five live listener usually but, this was very enlightening.

Saying that I'm not much of a five live listener either but they do broadcast some good docummentaries. If you haven't heard it the Hansie Cronje one is brilliant, I recommend that.

Apologies for going off topic.

Chris_from_Sidcup

Curb_It said:

There is suspicion everywhere!

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/08/12/bernstein-usain-bolt-is-probably-doping-and-you-know-it/

I'd be more surprised if those Jamaicans WEREN'T on something. As the article says it's a miracle (and highly suspicious) that such a small island country suddenly starts churning out winner after winner.

kigelia

i'd be very surprised if at the top level there were not club (and country) systematic doping programmes for their players. Testing of players is done a lot less frequently than in individual sports simply because of the numbers involved. The cash washing round the top echelons is such that teams and players would be taking advantage if they thought they could get away with it. The testers are always less well funded than the companies developing the products so will always be playing catch-up. I doubt it would go below the top leagues in europe because the money in football does not trickle down very far.

ColinTat

Blood doping is transfusions and was specifically banned after a reaction to the US track cycling team that did it in th 84 olympics. Who was one of the riders? Chris Charmichael LA's coach.