Geneally agree with Rizzo and Tango too. Except when it comes to He's and His; now that's a misplaced apostrphe that is absolutely mindbendingly annoying.
And it's not a class thing, both my parents grew up on council estates, and they both had decent grammar, and that's despite both leaving school at 15.
My point is why are these rules made in the first place? Like the imperial system of measure, why choose difficult numbers like 12 and 14 for units? I think it may be due to the rules makers not wanting everyone to be able to do things properly, remember the time when these rules were written. I don't think it's dumbing down/Americanising things, just making things more accessible.
@Friend Or Defoe You use an apostrophe for the plural of single letters and numbers, e.g. dotted the i's and crossed the t's. Completely pointless other than to correct people.
The use of the apostrophe here is optional and is merely used as an aid to easy reading .. grammatically, an apostrophe is not necessary in the cases you mention. As with much in life, English is an expedient language and, within certain parameters, so long as the language flows nicely and is not too 'avant garde' (a lovely English expression), anything goes.
And it's not a class thing, both my parents grew up on council estates, and they both had decent grammar, and that's despite both leaving school at 15.
My point is why are these rules made in the first place? Like the imperial system of measure, why choose difficult numbers like 12 and 14 for units? I think it may be due to the rules makers not wanting everyone to be able to do things properly, remember the time when these rules were written. I don't think it's dumbing down/Americanising things, just making things more accessible.
12 is a more versatile number than 10 .. 12 is divisible by 2,3,4,6,and itself .. 10 by only 2,5, and itself .. a quarter of 10 is not a whole number .. the decimal system was invented by the FRENCH who could only count to twenty by taking off their socks and using both fingers and toes. The more imaginative ENGLISH, over the centuries, devised a more subtle monetary and measurement system .. more difficult, but more subtle.
In many cases it just doesn't matter. However in other cases it can completely change a sentence's meaning. There was a legal case in America where a missed comma changed the meaning of a sentence and it cost the writer several million dollars. Therefore getting it right in business is important but not too often on here.
In many cases it just doesn't matter. However in other cases it can completely change a sentence's meaning. There was a legal case in America where a missed comma changed the meaning of a sentence and it cost the writer several million dollars. Therefore getting it right in business is important but not too often on here.
Exactly .. a good lawyer will convice you that 2 + 2 = nine hundred and firty free and a fird
It's not a question of "Rules Made" as if there is a governing body who decides these things (this isn’t France). When it started out, there was no punctuation in the English language. The trouble with this was that there was too much ambiguity; Some statements are meaningless without punctuation others could have two or three different meanings from an identical set of words. One by one, various elements of punctuation evolved to remedy this. Some, which weren’t found to be useful, became extinct - or at least dormant. The rules that we use now tend to be the one’s that are most useful. Though, as this thread proves, there’s some debate as to how useful some of the “rules” are.
If you want an example of some of the mix ups that can occur with incorrect punctuation, it’s well worth taking a look at the Lynne Truss book Eats Shoots and Leaves. You don’t even have to go to the library, much of it can be read as a sampler on Amazon.
Gotta say, I back Andy up! Although I'm not sure it's an argument worth having!!
Some posters throw a sentence down that must sound fine in their heads, but when I read it, I have to go over it three times to figure out what the hell they meant. If you come across like a 9-year-old child, people might not take you as seriously... Then again, I work hard on grammar and people don't take me seriously, so what do I know!? Smiley face!
Gotta say, I back Andy up! Although I'm not sure it's an argument worth having!!
Some posters throw a sentence down that must sound fine in their heads, but when I read it, I have to go over it three times to figure out what the hell they meant. If you come across like a 9-year-old child, people might not take you as seriously... Then again, I work hard on grammar and people don't take me seriously, so what do I know!? Smiley face!
I agree it's not necessarily an argument worth having, I just love getting on my soap box.
At the end of the day English is a very fluid language, always changing and adapting. The goal of anything we write is to communicate. If we get the spelling and grammar wrong then that doesn't always matter, as long as the meaning is still clear. It's when those mistakes cause ambiguity that there is a real problem, and the easiest way to avoid those problems is to at least try and use proper grammar and spelling.
You also make a very important point, badly written replies, no matter how clear the intent can effect how people view that reply. It really can undermine your point if the spelling and grammar is bad.
The opposite is also true, if you're talking rubbish it doesn't matter how good your spelling and grammar are
The rules that we use now tend to be the one’s that are most useful. Though, as this thread proves, there’s some debate as to how useful some of the “rules” are.
You also make a very important point, badly written replies, no matter how clear the intent can effect how people view that reply. It really can undermine your point if the spelling and grammar is bad.
It doesn't seem to affect the quality of nolly's posts.
Greg - you are absolutely right. I've no idea why I threw that extra apostrophe into the mix. Unfortunately the edit button doesn't work on the machine I'm on, so I'm stuck with it. Holds head in shame.
The rules that we use now tend to be the one’s that are most useful. Though, as this thread proves, there’s some debate as to how useful some of the “rules” are.
Comments
James's is often used but James' is also acceptable and preferable in my 'umble opinion.
His; now that's a misplaced apostrphe that is absolutely mindbendingly annoying.
This is what you get
This is what you get when you mess with us
The use of the apostrophe here is optional and is merely used as an aid to easy reading .. grammatically, an apostrophe is not necessary in the cases you mention. As with much in life, English is an expedient language and, within certain parameters, so long as the language flows nicely and is not too 'avant garde' (a lovely English expression), anything goes.
*shakes fist*
The rules that we use now tend to be the one’s that are most useful. Though, as this thread proves, there’s some debate as to how useful some of the “rules” are.
If you want an example of some of the mix ups that can occur with incorrect punctuation, it’s well worth taking a look at the Lynne Truss book Eats Shoots and Leaves. You don’t even have to go to the library, much of it can be read as a sampler on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1861976127/ref=rdr_ext_tmb#reader_1861976127
Gotta say, I back Andy up! Although I'm not sure it's an argument worth having!!
Some posters throw a sentence down that must sound fine in their heads, but when I read it, I have to go over it three times to figure out what the hell they meant. If you come across like a 9-year-old child, people might not take you as seriously... Then again, I work hard on grammar and people don't take me seriously, so what do I know!? Smiley face!
At the end of the day English is a very fluid language, always changing and adapting. The goal of anything we write is to communicate. If we get the spelling and grammar wrong then that doesn't always matter, as long as the meaning is still clear. It's when those mistakes cause ambiguity that there is a real problem, and the easiest way to avoid those problems is to at least try and use proper grammar and spelling.
You also make a very important point, badly written replies, no matter how clear the intent can effect how people view that reply. It really can undermine your point if the spelling and grammar is bad.
The opposite is also true, if you're talking rubbish it doesn't matter how good your spelling and grammar are
Why do people write carz instead of cars for example? You haven't made the word shorter, why use different letters?
And don't even get me started on text speak. IMO, tbh, atm are okay, but when people start with 'u' and 'wot'...it's just laziness!
Out of interest - any way of stopping pictures from appearing twice?
Tiles, toilets, vanities and adhesives - no apostrophe,
Tool's and tap's - all day long!!!
who get's the write to say weather things are rite or wrong?
some of us cant 'elp it so stick it were the sun dont shine.
because of this i wont be posting on here no more
you all moron's!
And then moving on (beginning a sentence with "and" is ok by the way) how about:
That'll learn you! NO!
Can I lend a fiver? NO!
We won 'em. NO!!!
;-)
My wife, who otherwise has a fantastic vocabulary, uses borrow when she means lend (e.g. "Can you borrow me a fiver?"), drives me nuts!