Contact? Its football there has to be contact. You cant tackle 6 feet apart. Would Young have fallen/jumped/dived.... if it wasn't in the Villa area? He cheated. If he had lost his balance with that touch and gone down and got a penalty,it would have been harsh but he choose to con the ref with his dramatics. I cant remember to many defenders jumping around in their own penalty areas trying to con free kicks.
Loved the fact that his legs go in various different angles. Crap dive and I'd give that a 5 out of 10. Don't like that side of the game at all even if Charlton players do it. It is cheating. Fact. And Young now has a reputation for diving but the more he gets away with it the more he will do it.
This is what people forget when they criticise refs. Players have to take responsibility. Every time a ball goes out for so much as a throw the bulk of both teams appeal for the decision to go their way, even when they know it's not their ball. You even see it at kids football, which is so sad.
This is what people forget when they criticise refs. Players have to take responsibility. Every time a ball goes out for so much as a throw the bulk of both teams appeal for the decision to go their way, even when they know it's not their ball. You even see it at kids football, which is so sad.
As someone who follows England and will be at the Euros, I would celebrate the victory but not how we won it, I would probably (wrongly) say that was karma for the goal that was ruled out in SA but, believe me, he would not be a national here, the man who took the penalty and scored it probably would...
To a certain extent I blame the media for this. It started in the 90s, a penalty was won for a dive and the interviewer asked the player if it was a penalty. The answer was the now stock "I felt contact so went down" and the interviewer accepted that as a reasonable answer.
What they should have said was "So you dived then, it's a contact sport and if the contact had been sufficient to knock you over you would have answered that he fouled you, but instead you just said there was contact and then admitted diving".
The media let players and managers get away with far too much. Just once I'd like the interviewer respond to Wenger's "I didn't see it", with "How did you not see it Arsene? It was right in front of you, everybody in the ground and watching on TV saw it, weren't you watching the game?"
In cases like this "penalty", it is a foul the otherway, However you look at it, Young kicked out at the defender and made contact.
I was listening to TalkSport the other night and they were talking about a game in Germany. The striker handled the ball into the net, the ref wasn't sure what happened so asked the striker, how responded the goal shouldn't stand as it had struck his hand. Danny Kelly thought this was a good idea, if the referee is unsure he should ask the players, make them responsible for the decision. So with the Chelsea "goal" yesterday he asked Mata and/or Terry if the ball crossed the line. If the answer yes and replays show it didn't then you ban them for 8 games for lying to a match official. I like this idea, players have got to take responsibility for the quality of refereeing. You can't spend your whole time trying to con the officials and then complain that they make bad decisions.
Retrospective bans won't work. I would start deducting points. Dive for a pen 1 point deduction. Dive and player sent off 1 point deduction. Would stop it all very quickly ad it hits clubs where it hurts. Right in the league table.
Danny Kelly thought this was a good idea, if the referee is unsure he should ask the players, make them responsible for the decision. So with the Chelsea "goal" yesterday he asked Mata and/or Terry if the ball crossed the line. If the answer yes and replays show it didn't then you ban them for 8 games for lying to a match official. I like this idea, players have got to take responsibility for the quality of refereeing. You can't spend your whole time trying to con the officials and then complain that they make bad decisions.
This might stop it, but the players would find a way to avoid getting themselves into trouble. Also the ref could end up having to ask all the players. If Mata and Terry say "I think so, but I'd not put risk an eight game ban on it", and the Spurs defenders say the same (only in reverse) the officials need to make a decision, but having asked the question they will have admitted that they don't, actually, know. Also there would be games where it would be worth taking an 8 game ban for the result. In that case (i.e. a relegation decider, a cup final) 8 games for £30m would be a no brainer, so you'd have to find a way to punish the player that was willing to lie to 'win' the prize on offer.
I do think that retrospective fines and bans for cheating is a good idea, but it is very difficult to prove it, and as I've said above, sometimes it's worth the ban and fine for the value that might come from a different result.
In the end at the top level, where all games are televised, the refs need to study players and make their own judgements about how easily they go down. I have a feeling that Ashley Young will find it harder to win a penalty the next time he goes down, and that might even be a more deserving occasion. Certainly Vinnie Jones and Roy Keane got more cards once they had a reputation for being 'hard men'.
In some cases I think we just need to learn to live with the flaws in the game. Cheating exists in all aspects of life, children learn to cheat at a very young age (and not just in football). All computer games have the ability to select levels that are akin to cheating - if you cant win change the circumstances to enable you to.
For me, as long as we are confident that the refs are honest and true then we need to accept that they will makes mistakes. Players have learned over the years to 'look for the foul' so as to win a penalty. It is, now, considered a skill by some.
Agreed, he is a disgrace BUT... Was listening to a debate on Talksport the other day and they were saying if all the continental players are using diving to gain an advantage is major Tournaments I.E The Euros, then should we? If England can win the euros diving, like other nations(Germany, Italy & Spain) would you be happy? Or would you rather go out honestly in the Quarters again?
We're going out in the quarters anyway, at least if we stay on our feet we can blame the cheating foreigners instead of having to address our own failings
Arsene Wenger has put forward a solution: "If an obvious dive is punished by a three-match ban, the players would not do it anymore. I would support it."
Players cheat. They spend a ridiculous amount of energy and time working on tricking the ref. Then the ref gets castigated for not being able to figure out what really happened.
Look at Chelsea - Atkinson gave a goal. He's an honest guy, he didn't want to get it wrong. The ball was nowhere near going over the line. The last few controversial issues with this have been goals that SHOULD have stood that didn't. Any of those refs could have gambled and been deemed 'quality' for getting it right. Why would Atkinson gamble? look at Mata. That's why he gambled. A guy who knew for a fact that it didn't go in celebrated like it did, as did his teammates. And Atkinson figured it was worth going with their reaction. Their lies.
Ashley Young said something about it being up to the ref to get it right. Really? 22 players do everything they can to lie to the man, and it's his fault for getting it wrong?
Arsene Wenger has put forward a solution: "If an obvious dive is punished by a three-match ban, the players would not do it anymore. I would support it."
Don't think he said that when Eduardo got banned back in 2009!! Admittedly it wasn't a standard rule, but I don't remember Wenger applauding the FA's stance!
Agree entirely that action needs to be taken. Retrospective bans might help because they'd signal that what Young did was unacceptable and this might help to change attitudes.
Robbie Fowler once deliberately missed a penalty that he thought shouldn't have been given. Imagine Rooney had shown his utter contempt for Young's cheating by shooting wide? I bet Young would never dive again. OK I accept that this is very unlikely to happen, but the point here is that peer pressure is the key. Change that and the consensus about what is "the done thing" and what's not and it would make a big difference.
I'm not holding my breath, however. There is a complete lack of leadership in the game and diving and cheating and outrageous refereeing errors will continue to get worse until, finally someone has the courage to take action. Of course, when that happens everybody will say, "..don't understand why it didn't happen sooner." Ho hum.
Arsene Wenger has put forward a solution: "If an obvious dive is punished by a three-match ban, the players would not do it anymore. I would support it."
Don't think he said that when Eduardo got banned back in 2009!! Admittedly it wasn't a standard rule, but I don't remember Wenger applauding the FA's stance!
Comments
Would Young have fallen/jumped/dived.... if it wasn't in the Villa area? He cheated.
If he had lost his balance with that touch and gone down and got a penalty,it would have been harsh but he choose to con the ref with his dramatics.
I cant remember to many defenders jumping around in their own penalty areas trying to con free kicks.
What they should have said was "So you dived then, it's a contact sport and if the contact had been sufficient to knock you over you would have answered that he fouled you, but instead you just said there was contact and then admitted diving".
The media let players and managers get away with far too much. Just once I'd like the interviewer respond to Wenger's "I didn't see it", with "How did you not see it Arsene? It was right in front of you, everybody in the ground and watching on TV saw it, weren't you watching the game?"
In cases like this "penalty", it is a foul the otherway, However you look at it, Young kicked out at the defender and made contact.
I was listening to TalkSport the other night and they were talking about a game in Germany. The striker handled the ball into the net, the ref wasn't sure what happened so asked the striker, how responded the goal shouldn't stand as it had struck his hand. Danny Kelly thought this was a good idea, if the referee is unsure he should ask the players, make them responsible for the decision. So with the Chelsea "goal" yesterday he asked Mata and/or Terry if the ball crossed the line. If the answer yes and replays show it didn't then you ban them for 8 games for lying to a match official. I like this idea, players have got to take responsibility for the quality of refereeing. You can't spend your whole time trying to con the officials and then complain that they make bad decisions.
Time that exclusive club of public school tossers were put out to grass like the toothless flaccid old nags they are.
In my opinion.
I do think that retrospective fines and bans for cheating is a good idea, but it is very difficult to prove it, and as I've said above, sometimes it's worth the ban and fine for the value that might come from a different result.
In the end at the top level, where all games are televised, the refs need to study players and make their own judgements about how easily they go down. I have a feeling that Ashley Young will find it harder to win a penalty the next time he goes down, and that might even be a more deserving occasion. Certainly Vinnie Jones and Roy Keane got more cards once they had a reputation for being 'hard men'.
In some cases I think we just need to learn to live with the flaws in the game. Cheating exists in all aspects of life, children learn to cheat at a very young age (and not just in football). All computer games have the ability to select levels that are akin to cheating - if you cant win change the circumstances to enable you to.
For me, as long as we are confident that the refs are honest and true then we need to accept that they will makes mistakes. Players have learned over the years to 'look for the foul' so as to win a penalty. It is, now, considered a skill by some.
Young is the aggressor, he is the player that has kicked the defender.
No question.
Should have been a free kick. And Young booked.
Was listening to a debate on Talksport the other day and they were saying if all the continental players are using diving to gain an advantage is major Tournaments I.E The Euros, then should we? If England can win the euros diving, like other nations(Germany, Italy & Spain) would you be happy? Or would you rather go out honestly in the Quarters again?
or should that be
"If an obvious dive is punished by a three-match ban, the players would not do it anymore. I would support it."
Look at Chelsea - Atkinson gave a goal. He's an honest guy, he didn't want to get it wrong. The ball was nowhere near going over the line. The last few controversial issues with this have been goals that SHOULD have stood that didn't. Any of those refs could have gambled and been deemed 'quality' for getting it right. Why would Atkinson gamble? look at Mata. That's why he gambled. A guy who knew for a fact that it didn't go in celebrated like it did, as did his teammates. And Atkinson figured it was worth going with their reaction. Their lies.
Ashley Young said something about it being up to the ref to get it right. Really? 22 players do everything they can to lie to the man, and it's his fault for getting it wrong?
Robbie Fowler once deliberately missed a penalty that he thought shouldn't have been given. Imagine Rooney had shown his utter contempt for Young's cheating by shooting wide? I bet Young would never dive again. OK I accept that this is very unlikely to happen, but the point here is that peer pressure is the key. Change that and the consensus about what is "the done thing" and what's not and it would make a big difference.
I'm not holding my breath, however. There is a complete lack of leadership in the game and diving and cheating and outrageous refereeing errors will continue to get worse until, finally someone has the courage to take action. Of course, when that happens everybody will say, "..don't understand why it didn't happen sooner." Ho hum.