I think the way we've been playing over the last six weeks to 2 months (generally) has seen us miss out the two guys in the middle in our build up play. We seem to see balls going to the flanks or straight up top and completely bypass Hollands and Stephens. I can only attribute this to Yan's amazing ariel ability, but I think we're maybe becoming a bit one dimentional, whereas at the start of the season we worked the ball through the middle which gave the Stephens and Hollands partnership the chance to shine.
As an aside, I thought when Hughes was in the midlle it released Hollands to go forwards alot more and we looked really good.
Jensen created more, could dribble with the ball, got forward more and took our dead balls. It is worth noting that Curbs tended to play him in left sided midfield, preferring more energy in the centre of the park.
Unfair when compared in that way, as they are at different standards. But if Jensen did get forward more and took free kicks, he still only scored one in ten.
Dale has only just turned 22, played less than a hundred games, uprooted to the other end of the country, just had a baby, and on his way back from a serious injury. He has the tools to be a very good technical player, and hopefully playing consistently with see him flourish, exactly the same way Solly has flourished by playing every week.
I don't dispute Dale's (or Danny Hollands') talent but it isn't working, probably as you say because they are against a 3, so what is the answer?
Go 4-5-1 ourselves maybe which would mean dropping an 18 league goal striker as I don't think BWP could be the "one" although Yann looks born to it to me. The French Bartlett and that is a compliment.
Where we're you ***** when we were smashing 4-0 a week before Xmas putting us in the position we are in now.
Yeah Stephens hasn't hit the heights from before but we are now coming up against teams fighting for their lives comin with specific gameplans to Nullify us.
We're not fifth in the league ffs like under parky and still weren't happy we're top by a country mile. Stop the nit picking for not picking sake .
We've not had a player of Stephens class in CM since god knows when he's only 22
Lovely to watch at times, picking the ball up on the perpendicular spinning and playing it out wide for JJ, Green or the top two. But whereas for Racon, who did fuck all of effective merit nine games out of ten, Stephens does often but he shares a little lack of awareness to where Hollands is. Too often when the game is scrappy or breaks down, he is yards from Hollands creating a cavernous space. In league one we usually get away with it, but it does mean we struggle to dominate where our midfield line is, and it drops back. In the champ we'd get hurt many weeks with that kind of play.
He comes alive when there's a shooting opportunity near the box. Like he did twice at Bury, one being a goal and the other being beautifully kept down and creeping past the post. Unfortunately he comes alive defensively, and follows the ball leaving massive spaces in the middle. Personally I'd prefer JJ inside, and someone like Liam Lawrence on the left who just eats space up on the counter: apart from LL's wages being ludicrous, and him playing on the right!
Having said that Stephens has qualities that Semedo, or Racon will never have. If he learns to organise his team-mates on the right, stay central under pressure and only close down on the right in near goal sits..... he'll easily make it in the champ..... just we'll lose a lot of goals round Xmas when matches become battles and he's learning.
Actually, just because a handful of people are discussing a player doesn't mean they all want him banished from the country forever, everyone knows he's 22, and we're in league one. I thought it was quite refreshing to have a balanced discussion about a player as everyone has different opinions on players, which is why i added mine about hollands. Doesn't mean i'm going to boo them, or not go at the weekend, just mentioning my thoughts. Don't know why you're getting your knickers in a twist.
Actually, just because a handful of people are discussing a player doesn't mean they all want him banished from the country forever, everyone knows he's 22, and we're in league one. I thought it was quite refreshing to have a balanced discussion about a player as everyone has different opinions on players, which is why i added mine about hollands. Doesn't mean i'm going to boo them, or not go at the weekend, just mentioning my thoughts. Don't know why you're getting your knickers in a twist.
Good shout! It seems that some people assume that you want a player shot if you criticize him. If we cant discuss a player, mostly constructively, then we may as well pack up and go home.
Where we're you ***** when we were smashing 4-0 a week before Xmas putting us in the position we are in now.
Dale was injured then, indeed the best run of form we had was in November, when we scored goals for fun, with Hughes in midfield.
It's not sniping, it's constructive criticism, just because a team is top of the table it doesn't mean that everyone is playing brilliantly and is beyond reproach. Yes he has a good shot, and has scored 3 excellent goals, but it's not as if he's scoring long range rockets every week. Since he came back from injury, I can't think of a game where he has run midfield and controlled play. You saw the panic in the Colchester defence in the 1st half when Solly ran with the ball, whereas none of our midfielder seemed able or willing to do that.
I just find it refreshing we now have a midfielder who is not scared to shot from the edge of the box, Anyone who thinks we have a better CM in the squad than him really doesn't watch us often enough, i'm not gettin into some debate about it. In my opinion we have one hell of a player there, once he builds a little more strength he really will be something. I think its telling he is prob the only one of our midfield four who a prem club would take a gamble on, not sure what it is he's got but he's got it.
He can maybe be considered as a 'luxury player' by some as he doesn't run around like a headless chicken or put in wreckless challenges, or fist pump on the sideline. Which may be why some ppl will never be happy with him and some will love him. Some ppl want not losing football some want to be entertained by free flowing attacking football, I'm of the latter which is why I like stephens and everything he brings to the team, sure you couldn't have two of him in the middle as you need balance. I would rather see us attempting to be creative and wining more than we lose than playing not to lose and drawing more than we win or lose.
I just find it refreshing we now have a midfielder who is not scared to shot from the edge of the box, Anyone who thinks we have a better CM in the squad than him really doesn't watch us often enough, i'm not gettin into some debate about it. In my opinion we have one hell of a player there, once he builds a little more strength he really will be something. I think its telling he is prob the only one of our midfield four who a prem club would take a gamble on, not sure what it is he's got but he's got it.
He can maybe be considered as a 'luxury player' by some as he doesn't run around like a headless chicken or put in wreckless challenges, or fist pump on the sideline. Which may be why some ppl will never be happy with him and some will love him. Some ppl want not losing football some want to be entertained by free flowing attacking football, I'm of the latter which is why I like stephens and everything he brings to the team, sure you couldn't have two of him in the middle as you need balance. I would rather see us attempting to be creative and wining more than we lose than playing not to lose and drawing more than we win or lose.
I like flair players - some of my favourite Charlton players have been people like Colin Walsh, Paul Mortimer and Jensen, I just don't see the creativity coming out of Stephens at the moment. Yes, he'll spray the occasional nice looking sideways pass around, but in deep positions, and they often don't always find our players anyway. I don't see the killer ball being played, indeed the best passes last night were Solly's to Jackson, after his great run, and Hamer's brilliant kick out to Wiggins to set up another attacking move. I also don't see the incisive runs into the box, the one twos, the faints and dribbles that I would expect from a talented flair player, as he is usually so deep. Against Bournemouth, he contributed virtually nothing going forward, being swamped in the midfield battle.
Same midfield that has won the last 3 games without conceding. The ponly thing I would change is to push Stephens up the field where he can punish teams and let Hollands sit a little deeper to win the ball and play simple balls to a red shirt. Stephens retained possession well but was to deep, get him further up the pitch where the sideways balls will be to Green and Jackson and not Solly and Wiggins on the half way line.
As one poster has already mentioned earlier in this thread I think Stephens will thrive in the Championship where teams give you more time and space on the ball. Wouldn't be surprised if Powell builds the midfield unit around him next year with Hollands being the player who has to make way. The comparison to Carrick is a good one both in his style of play and physique.
Saying that I think every player in this team has earned the right to prove themselves in the Championship next season (if promoted of course, which looks to be a certainty but who knows?) but if Hollands and Stephens do not learn to play together then I can see Hollands being the one replaced with a more experienced, dynamic player who can help bring on Stephens.
I just find it refreshing we now have a midfielder who is not scared to shot from the edge of the box, Anyone who thinks we have a better CM in the squad than him really doesn't watch us often enough, i'm not gettin into some debate about it. In my opinion we have one hell of a player there, once he builds a little more strength he really will be something. I think its telling he is prob the only one of our midfield four who a prem club would take a gamble on, not sure what it is he's got but he's got it.
He can maybe be considered as a 'luxury player' by some as he doesn't run around like a headless chicken or put in wreckless challenges, or fist pump on the sideline. Which may be why some ppl will never be happy with him and some will love him. Some ppl want not losing football some want to be entertained by free flowing attacking football, I'm of the latter which is why I like stephens and everything he brings to the team, sure you couldn't have two of him in the middle as you need balance. I would rather see us attempting to be creative and wining more than we lose than playing not to lose and drawing more than we win or lose.
Unfortunately he does run around like a headless chicken when we're without ball. Out of position too often for me. But also for me I like to see him in this team, and this div, but he needs to improve his defensive positioning a great deal.
Agree with the comments about not 'dropping' but giving him and Hollands a rest, one on Saturday and one at the next game maybe.
I'd also like to see some new formations being experimented with, possibly in a few weeks when, touch wood, promotion is all but confirmed.
4-5-1 could allow us to dominate the midfield more and having an extra player sitting would probably take the problem of Hollands/Stephens not getting forward enough away.
I'd also like to see a 4-2-3-1, for the same reason and because a lack of pace on the wings means we could maybe work well with a more narrowed formation.
Maybe we could have gone to 3-5-2 last night, with Cort coming on for one of the midfielders and the 2 full backs - who provide all the width anyway - playing up the park, to give us 5 in midfield?
Agree with the comments about not 'dropping' but giving him and Hollands a rest, one on Saturday and one at the next game maybe.
I'd also like to see some new formations being experimented with, possibly in a few weeks when, touch wood, promotion is all but confirmed.
4-5-1 could allow us to dominate the midfield more and having an extra player sitting would probably take the problem of Hollands/Stephens not getting forward enough away.
I'd also like to see a 4-2-3-1, for the same reason and because a lack of pace on the wings means we could maybe work well with a more narrowed formation.
Far too much time playing Football Manager 2012 i think for you young man..
I think one of Hollands/Stephens plus one out of Hughes/Russel (Russel seems the more likely) would be better than either Hollands AND Stephens or Hughes AND Russel. Hollands and Stephens both seem the type who like to get involved attacking, but one of them needs to sit back and let the other play, but both end up trying to do both jobs and succeeding at neither. Get a really defensively minded/skilled mid in next to them and either of them would find their best form again, I'm sure.
If we were to play a 5 man midfield it would make sense to pull JJ in with Stephens and Hollands. Think Haynes would excel in the more advanced winger role the 5 man mid creates, with Kermo in the middle. Not sure about the other side tho. BWP wouldnt be suited. Perhaps it would suit Green better tho it would be a shame to drop BWP. Still, in the interest of combating the oppositions tactics of flooding the midfield it may be necessary. I guess this is what CP is paid for
Ran our team earlier in the season. When he was out hollands blossomed with a more defensive partner. Now he is back looks a different player, besides that scorcher he has not done a thing. Thought he was a ball playing midfielder but he drops so deep and that must be what he is told to do. No idea what he does but he isn't helping Hollands thats for sure.
not the player he was before his injury, but then we're not the same team nor playing the same football. Maybe that has something to do with it as well?
Think the problem is that Hollands and Stephens may be our best CM's but not neccessarily our best pairing. The 11 best players don't make the best team.............
Comments
As an aside, I thought when Hughes was in the midlle it released Hollands to go forwards alot more and we looked really good.
Go 4-5-1 ourselves maybe which would mean dropping an 18 league goal striker as I don't think BWP could be the "one" although Yann looks born to it to me. The French Bartlett and that is a compliment.
Where we're you ***** when we were smashing 4-0 a week before Xmas putting us in the position we are in now.
Yeah Stephens hasn't hit the heights from before but we are now coming up against teams fighting for their lives comin with specific gameplans to
Nullify us.
We're not fifth in the league ffs like under parky and still weren't happy we're top by a country mile. Stop the nit picking for not picking sake .
We've not had a player of Stephens class in CM since god knows when he's only 22
Lovely to watch at times, picking the ball up on the perpendicular spinning and playing it out wide for JJ, Green or the top two. But whereas for Racon, who did fuck all of effective merit nine games out of ten, Stephens does often but he shares a little lack of awareness to where Hollands is. Too often when the game is scrappy or breaks down, he is yards from Hollands creating a cavernous space. In league one we usually get away with it, but it does mean we struggle to dominate where our midfield line is, and it drops back. In the champ we'd get hurt many weeks with that kind of play.
He comes alive when there's a shooting opportunity near the box. Like he did twice at Bury, one being a goal and the other being beautifully kept down and creeping past the post. Unfortunately he comes alive defensively, and follows the ball leaving massive spaces in the middle. Personally I'd prefer JJ inside, and someone like Liam Lawrence on the left who just eats space up on the counter: apart from LL's wages being ludicrous, and him playing on the right!
Having said that Stephens has qualities that Semedo, or Racon will never have. If he learns to organise his team-mates on the right, stay central under pressure and only close down on the right in near goal sits..... he'll easily make it in the champ..... just we'll lose a lot of goals round Xmas when matches become battles and he's learning.
If we cant discuss a player, mostly constructively, then we may as well pack up and go home.
It's not sniping, it's constructive criticism, just because a team is top of the table it doesn't mean that everyone is playing brilliantly and is beyond reproach. Yes he has a good shot, and has scored 3 excellent goals, but it's not as if he's scoring long range rockets every week. Since he came back from injury, I can't think of a game where he has run midfield and controlled play. You saw the panic in the Colchester defence in the 1st half when Solly ran with the ball, whereas none of our midfielder seemed able or willing to do that.
He can maybe be considered as a 'luxury player' by some as he doesn't run around like a headless chicken or put in wreckless challenges, or fist pump on the sideline. Which may be why some ppl will never be happy with him and some will love him. Some ppl want not losing football some want to be entertained by free flowing attacking football, I'm of the latter which is why I like stephens and everything he brings to the team, sure you couldn't have two of him in the middle as you need balance. I would rather see us attempting to be creative and wining more than we lose than playing not to lose and drawing more than we win or lose.
i think holland plays better with a more defensive player e.g. hughes/russell
Hollands and Stephens have played together 21 times in which we have taken 43 points
Hollands and Hughes/Russel have played together on 10 occassions and we've taken 23 points
Hollands has played with Pritchard 4 times and we've taken 12 points.
Does make you wonder why Pritchard was dropped?? ;o)
More teams will employ a 5 against us so we need an answer.
The first game of the season stephens bombed forward making runs behind the defence. Him and hollands seemed to have swapped roles from some reason.
Saying that I think every player in this team has earned the right to prove themselves in the Championship next season (if promoted of course, which looks to be a certainty but who knows?) but if Hollands and Stephens do not learn to play together then I can see Hollands being the one replaced with a more experienced, dynamic player who can help bring on Stephens.
I'd also like to see some new formations being experimented with, possibly in a few weeks when, touch wood, promotion is all but confirmed.
4-5-1 could allow us to dominate the midfield more and having an extra player sitting would probably take the problem of Hollands/Stephens not getting forward enough away.
I'd also like to see a 4-2-3-1, for the same reason and because a lack of pace on the wings means we could maybe work well with a more narrowed formation.