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Tranmere v. Charlton 1-1 Post Match Views

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Comments

  • Is it worth getting Hayes back in? Looked good at the start of the season, and he provided some valuable assists. Him and BWP looked good together, maybe Yan needs a rest, yes he wins some big headers but we need a new dimension and way of playing to get the best out of BWP again. Thats just my view... I know we're top, and I'm not moaning, far from it. I just want to get us scoring again, and get Bradley firing.
    I'm sure powell and his staff are doing all they can to come up with the right formula. he changed it saturday and in the second half and it looked better but our peformance was not good in midfield either in the first half. i understand your frustration at the forwards not scoring but i feel we just have to have faith in the people that have us 6 points clear in febuary. if hayes is the right man he will be picked. thats my opinion
  • When Powell & Dyer move on, which they inevitabley will at some point.
    I vote they should be replaced by Grapevine 49 & Scoham.
  • Bill

    People are not panicking about people panicking they have a different maybe more realistic expectation. It seems you went to Saturdays game and I am happy to accept your view of the game and the players performances. My problem is there seems to be a perpetual view we have the right to dominate any and every game regardless of the opposition and without free flowing penetrating football all is lost.

    There is not one side in League 1 this season that has performed to that level. Only Brighton and to a lesser extent Southampton in recent years have played anywhere near a strong open attacking game. Sheff United are making a decent fist of it but many of their players were in the Championship last season. The League 1 game is attritional. We are "attritional plus".

    Stevenage v Spurs gave a perfect example of how difficult it is to play against an attritional side and just look at the array of talent Spurs had available yet nearly every player on the pitch, Bale and Parker included, looked positively ordinary. Spurs looked like they had had enough of it after just one game. We, to greater or lesser degree, have much the same every week

    Many comments are from people expressing a view based on a commentary of the game. It is not for me to inhibit people expressing their views but it is easy to get overly frustrated in such scenarios and many unwittingly or not just repeat their personal preferences on players even though they have no real idea how that player played in any given game. It is also odd how non participants often almost vilified for earlier performances are now seen as saviours to the crisis.

    When you read through the comments and match them to the players marks allocated by those who went, more often than not, you will struggle to find any correlation between the two. It really is a case of that old banking term "Words and Figures Differ". Comments on Tranmere are interesting, when comparing Powells' post game views he is either being a very naughty boy or he is sniffing something he shouldn't (in which case he is a very, very naughty boy).

    On another website its main contributor enters into multiple negative comments on the manager and his players often based on "others" opinions. It is not difficult to see on whose opinions he chooses to focus. His endless stream of negativity can only be viewed as the pursuit of some weird personal agenda. That is up to him but it is not for me thanks.

    A modest suggestion - we have had a couple of new contributors put together some excellent reports on recent games and perhaps a thread classified as match reports would more appropriate for all of those who actually went to the game.

    I have no idea how any player performed on Saturday because I was not there - I do know the result and suspect as with most games at this level both sides will have had opportunities to have won the game. I know the team remains undefeated in the league in 2012 with 4 wins out of 6 and based on the plan of 2 points per game we remain 8 points over target.

    The Sheffield games were just over 4 weeks ago.

    I commiserate with those who now consider this slump is really getting out of hand and no doubt our luck will very soon run out. On the other hand may I ask you to spare a thought for those other 21 League 1 managers (+ 2 ex managers) who I suspect (it is only a suspicion mind) would probably wish they were in the same slump.

    Chin up lads and lasses it will all turn out alright in the end. How? I don't know it is a mystery.



    Grapevine49
    I don't often get wound up by a comment but I have to say Grapevine that you have me well and truly wound up.

    I was at Prenton Park, I don't think I have any particular favourite player and I do read all the post match player marks and attached comments, so I feel I can refute some of your opinion.

    The performance on Saturday was mediocre, most Lifers who gave marks were in agreement on most players, there was a divergence of opinion on Green's contribution. As for CP, there is no way he is going to publicly criticise his players in such circumstances, they weren't that bad, he is of course going to emphasise any positives, i.e. one more point.

    I criticised the performance because it was not good enough for a team that wishes to remain in 1st place, if we are to be Champions or even runners up then the team have to improve, at present they are relying on points gained from an excellent 1st half of the season and a continued reasonable defence. Our striker are not scoring, this problem has to addressed and it wasn't on Saturday, other managers might like our points total but would not want our current inability to score.

    We all have varied opinions and as fans we might think we know the remedy to the problems, I respect your reasoned opinion, even though you weren't there, and ask that you respect those of us who were and don't pillory us with your reasonable critique.

    Right I'm unwound now over to you (: or is it :)
  • edited February 2012
    Really feel we need a big win soon, or this we could find ourselves crawling over the finishing line. If it was me I would give kermo a rest and play Hayes, especially with a very physical stevenage side to play on Saturday. However, i cant see Powell doing that so hopefully kermo and BWP can get back among the goals in this one.

    This is posted in the wrong thread and i cant seem to delete it, so just ignnore!!
  • Bill




    Grapevine49
    I don't often get wound up by a comment but I have to say Grapevine that you have me well and truly wound up.

    if we are to be Champions or even runners up then the team have to improve, at present they are relying on points gained from an excellent 1st half of the season and a continued reasonable defence.

    Sorry LL, I hestitate to disagree, as you put in so much hard work.
    However, I disagree that we have to improve to gain automatic promotion.
    We've beaten Sheff W away & Sheff U & Hudds at home in the last 6 weeks.
    Improve on what ?
    You mean we need to win by more goals & the strikers must score. Sorry, that's not right. It may be nice to improve, but we don't need to. We are beating all our rivals, even without the strikers scoring.
  • Bill




    Grapevine49
    I don't often get wound up by a comment but I have to say Grapevine that you have me well and truly wound up.

    if we are to be Champions or even runners up then the team have to improve, at present they are relying on points gained from an excellent 1st half of the season and a continued reasonable defence.

    Sorry LL, I hestitate to disagree, as you put in so much hard work.
    However, I disagree that we have to improve to gain automatic promotion.
    We've beaten Sheff W away & Sheff U & Hudds at home in the last 6 weeks.
    Improve on what ?
    You mean we need to win by more goals & the strikers must score. Sorry, that's not right. It may be nice to improve, but we don't need to. We are beating all our rivals, even without the strikers scoring.
    I suppose looking at it objectively, I tend to only see away games and we have been very good on the road and I have seen some great performances this season, but on Saturday it really was poor and remembering spring slumps in past seasons I'm just worried that we'll have another one and miss out. I completely agree with you on some really good results in the past 6 weeks but beating the Rochdales and Tranmeres is just as important, it is no good sitting back and saying that we have done the hard work and it is just the easy bit now.

    I just don't want them to throw it away.
  • We will not throw it away. I'm as convinced of that as I possibly could be. I've only missed about 5 games this season. We are the best team, with the best players & the best attitude. I just can't see that changing. This team have the feel of the Kinsella , Brown, Robinson era. I can't see them bottling it & I can't see them switching off.
    Sure, we will wobble at some stage, it's virtually unheard of not to.
    But I cannot see one logical reason, why we won't make the automatics.
  • edited February 2012
    Bill

    People are not panicking about people panicking they have a different maybe more realistic expectation. It seems you went to Saturdays game and I am happy to accept your view of the game and the players performances. My problem is there seems to be a perpetual view we have the right to dominate any and every game regardless of the opposition and without free flowing penetrating football all is lost.

    There is not one side in League 1 this season that has performed to that level. Only Brighton and to a lesser extent Southampton in recent years have played anywhere near a strong open attacking game. Sheff United are making a decent fist of it but many of their players were in the Championship last season. The League 1 game is attritional. We are "attritional plus".

    Stevenage v Spurs gave a perfect example of how difficult it is to play against an attritional side and just look at the array of talent Spurs had available yet nearly every player on the pitch, Bale and Parker included, looked positively ordinary. Spurs looked like they had had enough of it after just one game. We, to greater or lesser degree, have much the same every week

    Many comments are from people expressing a view based on a commentary of the game. It is not for me to inhibit people expressing their views but it is easy to get overly frustrated in such scenarios and many unwittingly or not just repeat their personal preferences on players even though they have no real idea how that player played in any given game. It is also odd how non participants often almost vilified for earlier performances are now seen as saviours to the crisis.

    When you read through the comments and match them to the players marks allocated by those who went, more often than not, you will struggle to find any correlation between the two. It really is a case of that old banking term "Words and Figures Differ". Comments on Tranmere are interesting, when comparing Powells' post game views he is either being a very naughty boy or he is sniffing something he shouldn't (in which case he is a very, very naughty boy).

    On another website its main contributor enters into multiple negative comments on the manager and his players often based on "others" opinions. It is not difficult to see on whose opinions he chooses to focus. His endless stream of negativity can only be viewed as the pursuit of some weird personal agenda. That is up to him but it is not for me thanks.

    A modest suggestion - we have had a couple of new contributors put together some excellent reports on recent games and perhaps a thread classified as match reports would more appropriate for all of those who actually went to the game.

    I have no idea how any player performed on Saturday because I was not there - I do know the result and suspect as with most games at this level both sides will have had opportunities to have won the game. I know the team remains undefeated in the league in 2012 with 4 wins out of 6 and based on the plan of 2 points per game we remain 8 points over target.

    The Sheffield games were just over 4 weeks ago.

    I commiserate with those who now consider this slump is really getting out of hand and no doubt our luck will very soon run out. On the other hand may I ask you to spare a thought for those other 21 League 1 managers (+ 2 ex managers) who I suspect (it is only a suspicion mind) would probably wish they were in the same slump.

    Chin up lads and lasses it will all turn out alright in the end. How? I don't know it is a mystery.

    Grapevine49
    Personally I remain confident that we will be going up this year. It's been a fantastic season and I've enjoyed (almost) every minute of it and I hope to continue doing so. However, there are signs of a decline in the standard of our performance which need to be taken seriously. Nobody could reasonably expect Charlton to play like Barcelona (or even Spurs) or to blow the opposition away in every game. But many of us have seen this slowdown before. It happened last year and memorably in 93/94 when we went on a disastrous run after looking certainties for a play-off place at the very least. Then there was our 2000 Championship winning team who finally stumbled across the finishing line after being way out in front and the many years under Curbs when we could hardly win a game after February, not to mention our record run of winless games only three years ago. So, while I remain optimistic, I'm not complacent and I'd rather not have to go through an end of season slump yet again. Not this year when it is so important that we go up. Don't say it can't happen - it has, many times - and I think that it is absolutely right to consider where things can be improved so that it does not happen now. (But I still think we'll be alright!)
  • Just watched the 3 mins highlights... so not a tremendous insight...

    But Green looked nice and neat combining well... And BWP is clearly woefully low on confidence, even though his chance was offside it was like bartlett against Fulham away years back, where it was easier to score and he just got himself in a muddle ... a first goal by BWP against rochdale tonight would be ideal just to fire him back up ready for stevenage next week...

  • A major crtisism of this team is that they have not mastered the art of the slump. Ok, their performances can and have dropped (all teams do this btw through a long season) but if they were true slump masters they would be losing games. Look at Sheff Wednesday to see how it's done. You can also look at Huddersfield and MK Dons and see how they have dropped behind - they are not so bad at slumping either.
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  • edited February 2012
    Bill

    My intent was not to cause offence but try and bring a little perspective. I understand the angst of previous seasons. Is it possible things could go awry? Yes, but that does not mean we should transfer the foibles of other squads onto this group. They are not the same people.

    As I have pointed out elsewhere many of this squad were acquired because they knew League 1 but they are still a relatively new group with a few learning to meet the pressures/ challenges of competing for a championship. They will make mistakes and have bad games. It is football but this group has to date shown in that eventuality they can secure results.

    It is a strength we should appreciate not a weakness to be attacked.

    You and others assert that is not good enough but while I agree it is not ideal it may in truth be just exactly that! This club built its own meteoric rise up the leagues back in 1930's largely on 1-0 wins (so my Dad told me), the Don Revie Leeds side started out the same way - they just happened to kick anything that moved at the same time. Arsenal under George Graham were similar. We have not attained their standards but please give credit where credit is due.

    You indicate I pilloried your opinion on the game and I accept my earlier comments were a tad ambiguous but my words " It seems you went to Saturdays game and I am happy to accept your view of the game & the players performances" suggest entirely the contrary. You did however comment on "people panicking at people panicking". I offerred a view, some people were placing a different & more realistic expectation on performances.

    You feel the club is in danger of falling back because you view recent performances as unacceptably mediocre. If I accept your assessment for Tranmere (I already said I did) how far do you go back, MKD, Bury, Exeter, Sheff U, Sheff W, Brentford? Do you view us as mediocre throughout 2012? How do you explain 5 wins & 2 draws out of 7 league games securing 80% of the available points. Were we mediocre in the Sheffield games? They were just a month ago. There is nothing wrong with 1-0 wins - good defending is an important part of the game.

    Performances against Bury, MKD (CP criticised 2nd half display) Tranmere (included a 2 week hiatus and multiple forward changes [Clarke, Wright Phillips, Haynes]), could have been better. Yet we secure 55% of the points on which basis we gain another 26 pts this season. That may just be good enough. A good manager set targets people can achieve. Powell has set his target for this season. The squad "by hook or by crook" are delivering to and above plan.

    I suggested a post game thread distinction between those who went to the game and those who did not. There is little more frustrating than listening to your side play a game. Armed with a keyboard some will vent opinions sometimes to a point of desperation based on information from commentators/ pundits who would have Arlott spinning in his grave. To project such "opinion" onto the progress of a player or a team is frankly a little foolish. It would be like a manager buying a player on the basis of You Tube/ Video clips. Hang on ..........Mr Pardew?.

    So I acknowledge many comments arise through a sense of frustration perhaps for some a little desperation but this is the time for patience and support. Maybe because I split my early years of supporting Charlton with playing and coaching I expect opposing sides to compete, to have their good players and know we will have our good games and our bad games. Often in our crowd I sense a disquiet the visiting side has come to do anything more than kick the ball back to our lads when it goes out of play. The anguish if we make a mistake or let the "others' attack our goal is almost palpable.

    I exaggerate but how would fans today react to a player like "Daisy" Edwards as he stepped on the ball for the umpteenth time. We accepted he was not the best, knew moaning would change nothing, but supported him because when he stopped falling over the ball he was a good player and played for us. That was enough. It should be enough now!

    Compare that to the criticism of Kermorgant where some question his recent effectiveness though as you state "the forwards get minimal service from their team mates" Some seek to recall Hayes" (a decent player) who some slaughtered after the Halifax game. Does no one think how having to play with a different strike partner 3 games in a row may impact Kermorgant? If you had played as a striker you would know to recognize that.

    I apologize for the length of this piece but I have some "disquiet" of my own. I have little doubt in the ability of the manager and our playing squad to now achieve the target they set out. On the basis they are allowed to get on and do their jobs without unreasonable expectation I believe they will get the job done.

    My concern is whether the fans and supporters will be a help or hindrance to that process. I would like to think we can all play a positive supporting role in achieving a common goal.

    I think the expression is COYR



    Grapevine49
  • The fact is that even if they fall apart a bit they will still most likely gain promotion - I did the BBC predictor with a worst case scenario viewpoint (losing to Stevenage, Carlisle, Preston, Huddesfield and Oldham) and a few disapointing draws and we still got to 90 points! We have some very winnable home games remaining and there is no way we are going to lose too many of these, no matter how badly we are playing.
  • edited February 2012
    Grapevine, I don't think I've ever disagreed with your comments. I agree 100% & only wish I had the patience to comment, in as much detail, as you. Well said.
  • edited February 2012
    There is definately a change in the air, like the first day of spring, after Sheff Wed losing Saturday and us equalising away from home in a game we would have lost (ok so i know we always draw with Tranmere) with last years squad.

    I have been a gloater and optimist since mid-October but, a win tonight by any score then surely, even if not mathmatically promotion becomes the stuff of realists and not optimists. Everyone outside of the club, (with the exception of those in S6, scanning the horizon for our "blip" they have predicted but has yet to arrive) believes we are already up, I suspect in the next couple of weeks we too will believe and not hope, we are a very hard team to beat and that will be enough to see us through...Up the Addicks!
  • Recent games have made promotion look more likely - dropping MK Dons and close to dropping Wednesday -win tonight should do that. But we have also seen Sheffield Utd present themselves as a real threat to the title. However, I still think it is ours to lose and our run in looks decent with 9 of our 16 remaining games at the Valley, with only Stevenage to play there out of the top 8-9 sides.
  • edited February 2012

    My concern is whether the fans and supporters will be a help or hindrance to that process.
    Great piece, Grapevine.

    Everybody, when you go to games and you're frustrated because maybe the team is not performing to your expectations ......... ask yourself:

    Am I a help or hindrance?
  • OK I'll try and stop being negative, I think the majority of us do give the team support, we certainly did at Tranmere so I hope the rest of you will tonight, if we win tonight then I'll believe we can do it.
  • OK I'll try and stop being negative, I think the majority of us do give the team support, we certainly did at Tranmere so I hope the rest of you will tonight, if we win tonight then I'll believe we can do it.
    Well said, Lancs.
  • edited February 2012
    Grapevine

    I really don't think there's as much between us as you seem to think. You didn't cause offence (not to me at any rate) and I didn't think you pilloried my opinion either (and even if you did, you are perfectly entitled to do so, that's what this forum is all about). I have said on other threads and repeated here that I am confident we will get promotion and that I fully intend to enjoy every moment of this fantastic season. I support the team, as I always have done, with complete commitment. We differ only on the interpretation of our recent form and I do actually see both points of view. The results show quite clearly that we are on an unswerving path to promotion - how could anyone say otherwise when we've lost only 2 games all season and are on the verge of notching up the highest tally of away wins in our history as well as defeating all our rivals one by one? There is an alternative view, however, which is that we have been pushing our luck recently. We have drawn when we could easily have lost and won when we could easily have drawn (or lost). Our forwards have stopped scoring and since Boxing Day we have gained precisely two goals from open play. True, we have continued to pick up points but I don't think Chris Powell has winning ugly as his game plan. We're not tying to win 1- 0; we are doing so because part of the team is not functioning as it should. And that surely has to be a concern? Apart from anything else, strikers in scoring form would give us options in how we approach matches. At the moment we effectively have no back up plan - we rely simply on not conceding ourselves and hoping that someone on our side will score (neither Don Revie nor George Graham, as far as I recall, had this to cope with). If it goes wrong what do we do? Well, on Saturday we had to rely on a defender not only to keep the other side out but to score for us too and against Bury we managed to score with a 35 yard thunderbolt in the final minute. One day our luck will run out. Far from not giving our defenders any credit, I praise them to the skies because without them we would be in deep trouble.

    So why, given this rather negative interpretation, am I most definitely not panicking and still expect us to get promotion? It is because I have faith in the management team to get things sorted, because I believe that our players, including the strikers, are too good for the current goal drought to continue and because I just want to believe. I'm backing the boys to get 3 goals tonight!
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