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Cost of Policing Football Matches

edited February 2012 in General Charlton
I may have missed it on another thread, hope not, regarding the topic of policing costs which was brought to the fore in last nights BBC 'Inside Out' programme and briefly in the 'Late Kick Off'. For those that missed it QPR were 3rd, Chelsea were 2nd but not surprisingly Millwall were so disproportionately number one in the drain on public money in policing their matches in London. At an annual a cost of £760k Millwall pay only £176k towards this meaning the police budget has to meet over 75% of the costs of ensuring public order is maintained. Unbelievable! It would be interesting to know what our costs are by comparrison. Should there be an overall pot so every club pays an equal share to the Football authorities to pay the police, do we stay as we are or is the maintenance of law and order outside our football grounds nothing to do with football clubs? Your thoughts?

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    Our costs would be lower than they are if the police realised that most of the matches they turn up mob-handed to are in fact slightly less likely to have trouble than a meeting of the W.I.
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    It should stay as it is. Okay, policing football costs money. But so does policing everything, golf matches, London 2012, Glasto, Trooping The Colour, etc, etc. If football clubs were charged for officers outside grounds, where would it end? A charge to motorists for having patrol cars on the roads maybe?
    BTW, I got the distinct impression that the whole topic had been led by the BBC, from the FoI request to wheeling out various rent-a-gob morons from the likes of the Police Federation.
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    Surprised SLL doesn't have an opinion on being top of this league!
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    edited February 2012
    I thought the football league were right originally when they said how many squillions they pay in tax already and why should they have to pay more, then saw how much that millwall ought to pay and I just thought, well fuck them and make the clubs pay up

    There was something on the same report on how small festivals get stuffed with policing bills that are way out of proportion with what they were about and there was nothing they could do about it
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    You wouldn't mind but it is not as if they are attracting bigger gates than the other London clubs .Arsenal's attendances would be about 6 times higher.

    Millwall is the only ground I know where the away fans are let into South Bermondsey station and allowed to exit the area before the Home fans . This would be unthinkable anywhere else ,but at Wall I can understand why the Police might want to do this from a risk assesment perspective .
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    Must be great to send out an invoice for something where you tell the "customer" what it is they have to buy from you and dictate your own costs.

    Maybe it should be opened up to competition. If the Met's quote is too high you should be able to go and get a quote from Kent plod, etc.
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    What isn't generally known is that all the refreshments and items sold in the home ends and club shop come directly from the recycling plant behind. Makes them a bit irritable and agitated but generally is cost effective for the club and police.
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    I remember years ago a club took the local police force to court arguing that they shouldn't have to pay anything towards policing. Think it was one of the Sheffield clubs but couldn't swear to it.
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    Slightly off topic, but relevant I think. Many moons ago I went to see Maidstone Utd play Scunthorpe on a Tuesday night at Dartford. There were more Police in the ground than Scunthorpe fans (I counted them). I asked the club about this and was told they had to pay all the costs for Policing within the ground, and the number of officers involved was dictated by the Kent police force themselves, as Offy says. I may be being unfair, but it seemed to me that a memo had gone around seeing who fancied a bit of trouble free overtime on a Tuesday night, and however many stuck their hand up was the number the Kent police decided was necessary?
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    If it costs the Police £760K to police Millwall and lets say £400K to Police Charlton then surely Millwall should foot the difference between the two clubs on the basis that if Charlton have respectable fans (and have higher attendances) who generally do not cause trouble and are cost effective to Police then there's no reason why Millwall fans can't be the same. Until Millwall fans shape up it seems sensible that their club should pay the additional overheads.
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    Ideally an independent body should be assessing the category of football matches and allocating resources appropriately.

    But that would put an end to the policing gravy train and extra overtime hours, so it won't happen.

    Why at certain games, which would attract no trouble at all, the police decide to treat it like Leeds or Birmingham, is anyones guess.

    With the walkway, which should & could be done by stewards, there is barely any need for more than a handful of coppers at the station. Only need a few dozen to pick up the opposing mob when they arrive at London too.

    Jayajosh - if every Millwall lad were to stop going, who would pay for the policing of the opposition firms that would still come & cause trouble at either the ground, in local pubs or back at the pubs around the London stations?
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    If it costs the Police £760K to police Millwall and lets say £400K to Police Charlton then surely Millwall should foot the difference between the two clubs on the basis that if Charlton have respectable fans (and have higher attendances) who generally do not cause trouble and are cost effective to Police then there's no reason why Millwall fans can't be the same. Until Millwall fans shape up it seems sensible that their club should pay the additional overheads.
    & remember, this is policing OUTSIDE the ground. Why are Millwall FC liable for adults causing trouble away from their premises when they may not even support Millwall, may not have even gone to the game, etc.

    Will the police start billing the gangs of Peckham, Lewisham, Tooting, Brixton, etc for time they spend policing the streets, investigating crimes etc?

    Shall we change to a private police service, where you pay for police services as & when you require them?

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    Jints
    You are correct. The case was Harris v Sheffield United Football Club Ltd [1988] 1QB 77. I think the issue is whether these are 'special police services' which have been requested (and therefore have to be paid for) or ordinary law and order which come out of general taxes.

    I suspect that clubs now have stewards inside grounds (rather than police) as they are cheaper.

    (I already have my coat on)
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    edited February 2012
    Come on SLL you're not adopting the usual seige mentallity of 'no one likes us are you' ? I think it would be far more equitable if Millwall were to at least pay half the policing bill, after all your fans are proud of their 'hard' reputation which comes at a price. Or alternatively as I have suggested before, you play all your home games behind closed doors and problem solved.
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    Who pays for policing the Notting Hill Carnival?

    Who pays for the policing of protests (students etc)?

    Policing costs are met by the taxpayer, sad? unfair? but true.

    Why should football clubs pay when organisers of protests or the NHC don't.

    They pay for police inside the stadium that should be enough.
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    Ideally an independent body should be assessing the category of football matches and allocating resources appropriately.

    But that would put an end to the policing gravy train and extra overtime hours, so it won't happen.

    Why at certain games, which would attract no trouble at all, the police decide to treat it like Leeds or Birmingham, is anyones guess.

    With the walkway, which should & could be done by stewards, there is barely any need for more than a handful of coppers at the station. Only need a few dozen to pick up the opposing mob when they arrive at London too.

    Jayajosh - if every Millwall lad were to stop going, who would pay for the policing of the opposition firms that would still come & cause trouble at either the ground, in local pubs or back at the pubs around the London stations?
    And who would pay for the independent assessment body and who would they be made up of? - ex policeman who have knowledge of what is required? Sort of goes round in circles.
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    Ideally an independent body should be assessing the category of football matches and allocating resources appropriately.

    But that would put an end to the policing gravy train and extra overtime hours, so it won't happen.

    Why at certain games, which would attract no trouble at all, the police decide to treat it like Leeds or Birmingham, is anyones guess.

    With the walkway, which should & could be done by stewards, there is barely any need for more than a handful of coppers at the station. Only need a few dozen to pick up the opposing mob when they arrive at London too.

    Jayajosh - if every Millwall lad were to stop going, who would pay for the policing of the opposition firms that would still come & cause trouble at either the ground, in local pubs or back at the pubs around the London stations?
    And who would pay for the independent assessment body and who would they be made up of? - ex policeman who have knowledge of what is required? Sort of goes round in circles.
    The savings made from the reduced overtime could pay for the independent panel....& yes, you raise a good point of who would be on the panel....probably ex-coppers...make it worse...scratching eachothers backs.

    The FSF could get involved, they have someone following & looking at policing of football at the moment on twitter.

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    At Charlton there is a Safety Advisory Group made up of Club staff, Ambulance staff, Local Authority staff, Police, etc etc. There will also soon be a person representing supporters on the Group again soon.

    Yes, the police still get the final say on police matters but at least there is a debate and all parties do work together rather than in opposition.
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    Moan about police thread?

    I think it's right clubs pay.
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    Can't agree with that Cray, for the reasons Southampton mentioned. Add to that policing anything from royal weddings to village fetes, where would you draw the line? Not having a pop at the police, individual coppers are not responsible for it.
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    I think it is wrong for the reasons given by Southampton Addick.
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