Let them go and then we'd never have to suffer a Labour government again. Sadly it won't happen as the silent majority want to keep the Union.
You didn't see question time this week then? Our fellow fan Kelvin smuggly tried this argument only to be told that on only one occasion in history did Labour have to rely on this to win a majority. Had to backtrack double quick and blamed his researcher.
And on a sidenote, If Great Britain did split, What would happen to the Union Jack?
Simple - replace the blue with the green to represent wales cos wales never has been represented cos their dragon on green/white split flag made it impossible to integrate it into the Union Jack...
Green instead of blue wouldnt be a massive difference to me...
And on a sidenote, If Great Britain did split, What would happen to the Union Jack?
Simple - replace the blue with the green to represent wales cos wales never has been represented cos their dragon on green/white split flag made it impossible to integrate it into the Union Jack...
Green instead of blue wouldnt be a massive difference to me...
Wouldn't work, the Scottish flag is an integral part of the Union Jack. Its the blue and the white X you see.
And on a sidenote, If Great Britain did split, What would happen to the Union Jack?
Simple - replace the blue with the green to represent wales cos wales never has been represented cos their dragon on green/white split flag made it impossible to integrate it into the Union Jack...
Green instead of blue wouldnt be a massive difference to me...
Wouldn't work, the Scottish flag is an integral part of the Union Jack. Its the blue and the white X you see.
New flag could be; White background with a red cross on it. I'd give Wales its independence at the same time.
LOL, I was saying to a mate the other day that if Scotland goes independent, then we should push for an English referendum to become independent of Wales!! :-)
I have always felt that being independent would be detrimental more to Scotland than to the rest of the UK.
Many of Salmond's foxes however have been shot in recent years.
1. Biggest corporate f*ck up in history - Royal Bank of Scotland - bailed out by the UK Government. If Scotland were independent as Salmond would have it, the Scottish economy would be bankrupt like Iceland
2. The comparison with Ireland that he always gave - The Celtic Tiger that he thought Scotland would become is put into focus by the economic woes of our Irish neighbours
3. The belief he had that Scotland could join the Euro is looking pretty forlorn.
I do not under-estimate Salmond who in political skills terms is by far and away the best in the UK. He cleverly alienates the little Englanders, driving them into the "let them go" camp. He plays the "English Tories trying to tell us what to do" card skillfully.
I would like to see the Unionist cause be led, not by the tarnished flag in Michael Moore of the Lib Dems, but rather one of the heavy weights of Labour. Alistair Darling would do for me.
I would like to see the Unionist cause be led, not by the tarnished flag in Michael Moore of the Lib Dems, but rather one of the heavy weights of Labour. Alistair Darling would do for me.
Its a real shame John Reid has turned the role down as he is in my opinion the one Scottish politician who would be a match for Salmond . Indeed I feel he would have been a good PM for the UK when Blair resigned , in the modern age he is very good on the media.
I have lots of friends north of the border and the consensus is that they do not want independence but they do want Salmond fighting their corner in the wider UK , Richie8@s analysis earlier in the thread is correct.
I think the reality of splitting and the consequences of doing so will concentrate minds.
Some of the opinions on here are outrageously I'll informed. For the record, Scottish independence would not be "economic suicide" for Scotland, although it certainly wouldn't be the 6th richest country as Mr Salmond suggests. Wages/living standards would remain the same, not better, not worse. It's incredible that some of you genuinely believe the English economy supports Scotland. And re the example of RBS - see the Belgian banks with major French operations jointly bailed by the French and Belgian gov'ts - I hate Salmond and everything he stands for, my preference is "devolution max", but there's no doubt he's more astute than the three clowns that lead the Westminster parties. The biggest threat to the Union in 300 years is Cameron sticking his nose in.
Utter tosh re Cameron. The Labour party opened the door with a develution which is grosly unfare to England, with a formula that hasnt been looked at since the 1970z. The mid-lothian question is also ignored---if Scots MPs care so much about Scotland naff off out of votes on English matters.
Money---£billion in a year from oil. Cost to England to sub Scotland £10 billion.
As said to me onmy door step by the Labour MP for Eltham * England will get regional asemblies" there it is England to be split up ---how they truely hate this country
PS we are better off together
PSS the worst thing possible for England is "develution max"
Utter tosh re Cameron. The Labour party opened the door with a develution which is grosly unfare to England, with a formula that hasnt been looked at since the 1970z. The mid-lothian question is also ignored---if Scots MPs care so much about Scotland naff off out of votes on English matters.
Money---£billion in a year from oil. Cost to England to sub Scotland £10 billion.
As said to me onmy door step by the Labour MP for Eltham * England will get regional asemblies" there it is England to be split up ---how they truely hate this country
PS we are better off together
PSS the worst thing possible for England is "develution max"
I think you mean the West Lothian question - asked by the member for West Lothian - although perhaps it's another one about Hearts?
Up to the Scots, as far as I'm concerned. Hope they vote to stay in the UK.
Any intelligent Scot knows that Scotland is better off in a Union with England. What Salmond wants is political power with control over the budget and spending/tax raising, while still being subsidised by England. The EEC is proving that no small nation is better off in a large union unless it totally toes the Franco/German line.
This sums up the importance they put on Independence.
A recent survey found that 65% of Scots would vote for independence if they were £500 better off, while 66% would oppose it if they would be worse off.
So its all down to a few hundred quid. Braveheart my arse.
I doubt that the Scots will vote for independence, all things considered there is too much to lose, they will however vote for the Devo Max thing which is only on the ballot paper (or will be) to give Salmond a get out when he loses the main vote. At least though the SNP are folowing through on the promise to hold an election on devolution which they promised in the last election. And Cameron if he's got any sense will keep his mouth shut - someone needs to remind him how popular the Conservatives are in Scotland and why.
The Tories up here are about as popular as syphilis.That is what Salmond wants,looks the big man and keeps the money from down south coming in.I hate him and sturgeon with a vengance,want to put the beer prices up! Scotland is just about doable with a bucket full!!
I have always felt that being independent would be detrimental more to Scotland than to the rest of the UK.
Many of Salmond's foxes however have been shot in recent years.
1. Biggest corporate f*ck up in history - Royal Bank of Scotland - bailed out by the UK Government. If Scotland were independent as Salmond would have it, the Scottish economy would be bankrupt like Iceland
With most RBS accounts in England, I suspect that the whatever-was-left-of-the-UK government would be propping up the lame duck as much as the Scots government. Same goes for Lloyds TSB and the clustfk that is Halifax Bank of Scotland.
The main issue though, is the Euro. The SNP were always pinning their hopes on the kind of a bonanza from generous Europe that Eire benefited from. That's not going to happen now, so they should jack it in. Also, the SP has proved itself to be incapable of coherent government time and again, so I cannot imagine that a vote now would garener anymore than 20% support and that would largely be the ned element.
I have always felt that being independent would be detrimental more to Scotland than to the rest of the UK.
Many of Salmond's foxes however have been shot in recent years.
1. Biggest corporate f*ck up in history - Royal Bank of Scotland - bailed out by the UK Government. If Scotland were independent as Salmond would have it, the Scottish economy would be bankrupt like Iceland
With most RBS accounts in England, I suspect that the whatever-was-left-of-the-UK government would be propping up the lame duck as much as the Scots government. Same goes for Lloyds TSB and the clustfk that is Halifax Bank of Scotland.
The main issue though, is the Euro. The SNP were always pinning their hopes on the kind of a bonanza from generous Europe that Eire benefited from. That's not going to happen now, so they should jack it in. Also, the SP has proved itself to be incapable of coherent government time and again, so I cannot imagine that a vote now would garener anymore than 20% support and that would largely be the ned element.
Oh I am sure that the rest of the UK would have to get involved in saving RBS, just as we gave a direct loan to Ireland to help them prop up the Irish Banking system (or their economy). As a huge revenue earner for Scotland though, if Scotland were outside the UK, it would have a massively detrimental effect. That said, I don't think an independent Scotland would ever have been able to sustain, albeit for a brief period, the largest bank in the world.
I doubt that the Scots will vote for independence, all things considered there is too much to lose, they will however vote for the Devo Max thing which is only on the ballot paper (or will be) to give Salmond a get out when he loses the main vote. At least though the SNP are folowing through on the promise to hold an election on devolution which they promised in the last election. And Cameron if he's got any sense will keep his mouth shut - someone needs to remind him how popular the Conservatives are in Scotland and why.
Cameron has said that if the vote goes ahead under the UK law then he will only allow one question on the ballot paper (same as the two recent referendums). If the vote goes ahead not under UK law then it wont be legally binding (as the Scottish government has no mandate to pass legilsation on this matter) and it will therefore be a massive waste of money. Salmond wants option B as he can then ask the questions he wants and can blame Westminster for not 'doing what the people of Scotland want' when the people vote for powers short of full independence.
I've got one word for the SNP if they truly are thinking of an independence vote: Quebec
I suspect, like most on here, that Salmond is far, far cleverer than that - which is why he's doing his damnedest to ensure that the 'cake and eat it' option is on the ballot when (if) it finally takes place. He knows full well they're dead in the water if they lose (and they most certainly would, if it were the only option on the ballot) a full independence vote with nothing left to fall back on. Couple that with the rest of the union being given a vote on whether to retain Scotland as part of the union (which they would almost certainly lose, given the natural jingoistic streak of the English) and the SNP would never recover (much like the PQ in Quebec)
Comments
Tbh I couldn't give two boots if the union completely dissolved ,
Green instead of blue wouldnt be a massive difference to me...
Bad idea though
Many of Salmond's foxes however have been shot in recent years.
1. Biggest corporate f*ck up in history - Royal Bank of Scotland - bailed out by the UK Government. If Scotland were independent as Salmond would have it, the Scottish economy would be bankrupt like Iceland
2. The comparison with Ireland that he always gave - The Celtic Tiger that he thought Scotland would become is put into focus by the economic woes of our Irish neighbours
3. The belief he had that Scotland could join the Euro is looking pretty forlorn.
I do not under-estimate Salmond who in political skills terms is by far and away the best in the UK. He cleverly alienates the little Englanders, driving them into the "let them go" camp. He plays the "English Tories trying to tell us what to do" card skillfully.
I would like to see the Unionist cause be led, not by the tarnished flag in Michael Moore of the Lib Dems, but rather one of the heavy weights of Labour. Alistair Darling would do for me.
Its a real shame John Reid has turned the role down as he is in my opinion the one Scottish politician who would be a match for Salmond . Indeed I feel he would have been a good PM for the UK when Blair resigned , in the modern age he is very good on the media.
I have lots of friends north of the border and the consensus is that they do not want independence but they do want Salmond fighting their corner in the wider UK , Richie8@s analysis earlier in the thread is correct.
I think the reality of splitting and the consequences of doing so will concentrate minds.
I remember being surprised at the time. If this is the case then maybe it would be a good move for them?
Money---£billion in a year from oil. Cost to England to sub Scotland £10 billion.
As said to me onmy door step by the Labour MP for Eltham * England will get regional asemblies" there it is England to be split up ---how they truely hate this country
PS we are better off together
PSS the worst thing possible for England is "develution max"
Up to the Scots, as far as I'm concerned. Hope they vote to stay in the UK.
A recent survey found that 65% of Scots would vote for independence if they were £500 better off, while 66% would oppose it if they would be worse off.
So its all down to a few hundred quid. Braveheart my arse.
The main issue though, is the Euro. The SNP were always pinning their hopes on the kind of a bonanza from generous Europe that Eire benefited from. That's not going to happen now, so they should jack it in. Also, the SP has proved itself to be incapable of coherent government time and again, so I cannot imagine that a vote now would garener anymore than 20% support and that would largely be the ned element.
If the vote goes ahead not under UK law then it wont be legally binding (as the Scottish government has no mandate to pass legilsation on this matter) and it will therefore be a massive waste of money.
Salmond wants option B as he can then ask the questions he wants and can blame Westminster for not 'doing what the people of Scotland want' when the people vote for powers short of full independence.
I suspect, like most on here, that Salmond is far, far cleverer than that - which is why he's doing his damnedest to ensure that the 'cake and eat it' option is on the ballot when (if) it finally takes place. He knows full well they're dead in the water if they lose (and they most certainly would, if it were the only option on the ballot) a full independence vote with nothing left to fall back on. Couple that with the rest of the union being given a vote on whether to retain Scotland as part of the union (which they would almost certainly lose, given the natural jingoistic streak of the English) and the SNP would never recover (much like the PQ in Quebec)