I am not sure Jason is being made a scapegoat. A scapegoat for what? Our success? He didn't have a particularly impactful game yesterday, but playing him in a fairly competitive match means that he is one game nearer being ready if injuries or suspensions start to bite. He still has a role even if it is just to be an older and wiser head in a young team.
I expect some of the players do see our comments, but they are hardened professionals who have to get used to criticism. I suspect Jason will know that he didn't have a particularly good game by his standards at Halifax and will want to put it right. Let's not confuse having a poor game with making someone a scapegoat.
The real scapegoat is Benson who, unless injured, is being made a scapegoat by the Charlton management, Last season he was our highest scorer, he always gave 100% for the team, but now doesn't even get a place on the bench.
As for Jason, I remember him coming to us from Wimbledon, he was one of our best in his day. I was at the Shay yesterday and I yelled a lot of criticism at him, but would never boo him, he had a bad game and as I have mentioned elsewhere there were times in the 2nd half when a certain midfielder ignored making a pass to Jason when he was in a good position to receive one.
Anyway what are we making Jason a scapegoat for - winning 4-0? - I don't think so it is just that he had a bad game and we, as supporters, have a right to say so.
I noticed that pass that wasn't made and remember thinking at the time i could understand why, hence my comment about certain of our players looking frustrated. Time to move on from this i reckon and i'm sure CP is well aware.
Perhaps scapegoating is the wrong word. "Victim of cyber-bullying" is perhaps more accurate. I respect AFKA's attempt to take a balanced view, but let's remember why this discussion started.
Within minutes of a 4-0 victory, Oriental Addick saw fit to start a completely new thread on Jason Euell, with these words:
"As has been mentioned countless times by various posters recently and cemented by his poor showing today, I sincerely hope SCP drops Euell entirely from all playing duties.
Non-existent first touch, no pace, no creativity, minimal link-up play. Offers nothing to the team and his place on the bench should at the very least go to Evina (who had a great game today) or Pritchard.
I respect his previous achievements with the club but we've got no room for passengers."
And a number of people, who had been quietly glowing from a good win, thought that was OTT and told him so.
And then you get people who also like to dish it out, whining that "they are not allowed to criticise", as soon as somebody challenges their opinion.
Of course you can criticise. But if you don't make it constructive and balanced, and start from the viewpoint that SCP manifestly knows what he's doing, then you will get criticised back.
In other words, if you come on here and dish it out, you should be big enough to take it too.
Alanscoachdriver: great riposte to the "Euell" thread. Thank you.
I have never, nor will I ever boo our players. However, to suggest that we can't comment on poor play, poor substitutions, poor tactics etc is ridiculous. I pay my money, and I am entitled to have my opinion. If you want to experience a life where everybody must toe the Party line, try a few years in China or at the moment Syria.
Jason had a shocker yesterday, that doesn't mean that I hate him, or that I haven't appreciated his excellent career, it's a statement of fact. Nobody on this thread is arguing about it. I hope we never reach a point where opinions which are held without malice or bad language are rejected by some Big Brother.
Jason euell isn't a scapegoat & he isn't being booed, if it was Mcoxo or francis giving a similar display they would have(rightly or wrongly)been booed, however because of what euell did years ago he IS given respect & practically every game his name is chanted. He quite obviously isn't up to it, it happens to all players, suddenly you can't do it anymore & it becomes one season too many. For me that season has arrived for JE, he really offers nothing to the team & I thought it was a poor decision to resign him in the summer. Said so at the time check back.
Why are we wrong to express an opinion just because it's a critisism ? If we can only say nice things then whats the point ? It's a public forum for discussion & opinion.
Shall we start a thread listing Jason's strengths and weaknesses or just leave it here. The crux is, everybodies entitled to crticise him and everybodies entitled to crticise people for criticising. This is the right place for all of that.
Euell's performances this season are no different to Jon Fortune's from last season. The pair were fantastic servants to this football club when were in the Premiership, but sadly their legs have gone.
the problem is as soon as someone criticises a player its automatically seen as being out of order and the player in question is labelled a scapegoat. thats rubbish.
last year i was probably one of the worst when it came to simon francis and the year before i thought mooney was useless...cos they continually turned in performances that i saw as not up to scratch for a L1 player, infact more often than not, not good enough for a pro footballer full stop.
As a fan of charlton and a member of CL, i have the right to come on here and give my view on those players just as much as ive come on here this season and given our players praise. People need to stop being so sensitive and labelling the first sign of criticism of a player in a charlton shirt as 'scapegoating'.
Luckily this season every player ive seen so far when ive been to the valley has turned in a performance higher than what ive expected of them...so well done CP and the players.
I think it is the degree of critiscism - Euell had a poor game or wasn't at his best is fine- questioning him having a role in the team (when that is surely for SCP to decide on) and some of the stonger comments were what I objected too. I didn't feel that strength of comment had a place in a player who was part of a 4-0 victory and went above being a fair critique. I thought he was ok - we all see things differently - wasn't expecting him to play as an out and out striker so maybe my expectations were lowered! That is just my opinion though and happy to move on as Bexley Dan suggested.
I hear alancoachdrivers point of view. An hour after the match, there were more posts on the Jason euell thread than there were on the post match views thread. Says it all really.
Charlton finally overcame a side playing their Cup Final.
The potential banana skin avoided .......and how do people celebrate? Yep, they've got to go OTT picking on a player who worked his socks off playing his part for the team.
Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but why sour the moment? Shame.
I think that the reason Jason played is that he can be trusted in the defensive part of the field which many of the posters above have missed. Maybe yesterday a Smith or a Pritchard might have been slightly over eager when lets say we were defending and tried to force the ball across allowing Halifax to score which an experienced player never allows, so although Euell had a difficult game in an attacking sense I believe he didnt make any errors defensively and his positional play helped achieve the defensive result. That is why CP started with Jason
I don't think there is a problem commenting on an individual's performance in a particular game. What I have a problem with is people extrapolating that performance as a critique for attacking his very reason to be at the club, especially when I suspect that the criticism is based on their own pre-existing view about the player and whether it was right to sign him.
I also wonder about reading too much into a "one off" start for a player who needs match sharpness. Look at Hughes who was the subject of major criticism for a cup performance who now is part of the current team who have won 4 out of 4 in the League.
Many on here thought that Jason was past it before he kicked a ball for us when he re-joined and said so. For some, because they had fond memories of his earlier time and feared for him, others voiced worries it but hoped he still brought something positive to the squad. So when he doesn't play well its open season to bemoan the decision to have signed and played him.
Some on here bemoaned the signing of CP as a manager because of his lack of managerial expertise (and because they feared an idol may become fallen). Many who thought he might be too inexperienced raised a concern but hoped for the best. When the team failed to sparkle last season, those who were concerned then put flesh on the bones of their concerns, and there were calls for him to be removed. Not many are doing that now.
I look at this differently. It was important for some players around the edge of the team to get in 90 minutes for match fitness apart from anything else and its extra important for a player of Jason's age. His touch won't be sharp without playing. The only real way to do this is to get him some time on the pitch. He got that yesterday against an opposition which we took seriously enough but with a strong enough team to allow Jason the run out he needed.
I think that the reason Jason played is that he can be trusted in the defensive part of the field which many of the posters above have missed. Maybe yesterday a Smith or a Pritchard might have been slightly over eager when lets say we were defending and tried to force the ball across allowing Halifax to score which an experienced player never allows, so although Euell had a difficult game in an attacking sense I believe he didnt make any errors defensively and his positional play helped achieve the defensive result. That is why CP started with Jason
Well my post generated a fair few replies and for me the best bit is that there is still lots of love for Jason.
But my post wasn't just about Jason it was about the squad as a whole over the last few years with certain individuals having taken some flack which is unnecessary in my view. The thread about Jason straight after a 4-0 win just tipped me over the edge !!
We need to support our team as a whole and I think the comments here have echoed that.
These are good times so lets enjoy them. It's been a while.
Maybe the reason why there were a lot of posts on here after the game was becasuse:
A) instead of the usual average 800 or so that go to away games there was thousands watching it on TV and therefore got a much wider audiance
it was plain to see to everyone that he had a poor game compared to everyone else.
I & many others also posted on other threads about the result, the team etc - so it wasn't a witchhunt, just something that was blindingly obvious to all that watched the game.
Maybe the reason why there were a lot of posts on here after the game was becasuse:
A) instead of the usual average 800 or so that go to away games there was thousands watching it on TV and therefore got a much wider audiance
it was plain to see to everyone that he had a poor game compared to everyone else.
I & many others also posted on other threads about the result, the team etc - so it wasn't a witchhunt, just something that was blindingly obvious to all that watched the game.
Comments
I expect some of the players do see our comments, but they are hardened professionals who have to get used to criticism. I suspect Jason will know that he didn't have a particularly good game by his standards at Halifax and will want to put it right. Let's not confuse having a poor game with making someone a scapegoat.
I have never, nor will I ever boo our players. However, to suggest that we can't comment on poor play, poor substitutions, poor tactics etc is ridiculous. I pay my money, and I am entitled to have my opinion. If you want to experience a life where everybody must toe the Party line, try a few years in China or at the moment Syria.
Jason had a shocker yesterday, that doesn't mean that I hate him, or that I haven't appreciated his excellent career, it's a statement of fact. Nobody on this thread is arguing about it. I hope we never reach a point where opinions which are held without malice or bad language are rejected by some Big Brother.
Jason euell isn't a scapegoat & he isn't being booed, if it was Mcoxo or francis giving a similar display they would have(rightly or wrongly)been booed, however because of what euell did years ago he IS given respect & practically every game his name is chanted. He quite obviously isn't up to it, it happens to all players, suddenly you can't do it anymore & it becomes one season too many. For me that season has arrived for JE, he really offers nothing to the team & I thought it was a poor decision to resign him in the summer. Said so at the time check back.
Why are we wrong to express an opinion just because it's a critisism ? If we can only say nice things then whats the point ? It's a public forum for discussion & opinion.
LOOKOUT!!
You're nothing more than a N*&i!
What happened to FREE SPEECH?
Shall we start a thread listing Jason's strengths and weaknesses or just leave it here. The crux is, everybodies entitled to crticise him and everybodies entitled to crticise people for criticising. This is the right place for all of that.
Euell's performances this season are no different to Jon Fortune's from last season. The pair were fantastic servants to this football club when were in the Premiership, but sadly their legs have gone.
Happens to the very best. Scapegoat?, no sorry.
What Prague said 100x over
the problem is as soon as someone criticises a player its automatically seen as being out of order and the player in question is labelled a scapegoat. thats rubbish.
last year i was probably one of the worst when it came to simon francis and the year before i thought mooney was useless...cos they continually turned in performances that i saw as not up to scratch for a L1 player, infact more often than not, not good enough for a pro footballer full stop.
As a fan of charlton and a member of CL, i have the right to come on here and give my view on those players just as much as ive come on here this season and given our players praise. People need to stop being so sensitive and labelling the first sign of criticism of a player in a charlton shirt as 'scapegoating'.
Luckily this season every player ive seen so far when ive been to the valley has turned in a performance higher than what ive expected of them...so well done CP and the players.
Mooney and Francis were scapegoats as there were boos when BDL read their names out.
That hasn't (and hopefully won't either) happened to Jason so I wouldn't (yet) use the term scapegoat for him.
Euell is not a scapegoat. His name is sung every game. No one has booed him.
Unfortunately, the comments are not a knee jerk reaction. He has performed equally as poor, every game he has featured in.
As Shirty 5 says, it is akin to Jon Fortune last season. Their legs are gone . Game over.
If we can't see the facts for what they are it's a shame.
If we can't accept that past heroes have had their day, then we may as well bring back Killer, Firmani, Leary.
Let's have some honesty, without being disrespectful.
Charlton finally overcame a side playing their Cup Final.
The potential banana skin avoided .......and how do people celebrate? Yep, they've got to go OTT picking on a player who worked his socks off playing his part for the team.
Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but why sour the moment? Shame.
I think that the reason Jason played is that he can be trusted in the defensive part of the field which many of the posters above have missed. Maybe yesterday a Smith or a Pritchard might have been slightly over eager when lets say we were defending and tried to force the ball across allowing Halifax to score which an experienced player never allows, so although Euell had a difficult game in an attacking sense I believe he didnt make any errors defensively and his positional play helped achieve the defensive result. That is why CP started with Jason
Maybe the reason why there were a lot of posts on here after the game was becasuse:
A) instead of the usual average 800 or so that go to away games there was thousands watching it on TV and therefore got a much wider audiance
I & many others also posted on other threads about the result, the team etc - so it wasn't a witchhunt, just something that was blindingly obvious to all that watched the game.