Funnily enough I would say, honestly, that 85% of tradesmen (and women) that I have ever had dealings with have a 'cash' or 'cash in hand' price. Loads of said tradespeople live in bricks and mortar houses.
I'd say that 99% of tradespeople pay taxes. They may not pay everything they are supposed to, but most of them pay most of it.
Anyway, aside from the obvious ease for keeping sales "off-record", there are plenty of other valid reasons why tradespeople will offer a discount for cash payment. Or are you suggesting that they're all bent?
You know this thing about taxes. Well most of us pay income tax via PAYE, but we also have other taxes to pay such as value added tax on goods we buy, this tax is hard to avoid.
Okay I've tried not to get involved with Seth latest post but I've spent large amounts of my time this year chasing rogue traders from the travelling community. Including two incidents this week alone.
Seth, I can say with absolute certainty that the default position of travellers is to leave as little a paper trail as is possible - its the default position not the other way around. Im not going into details but for example I know of a recent example where a bill of £800 became £2000 because the old boy refused to pay cash, due to the "vat & extra admin". For 2 hours work.
Please dont suggest they are no worse than the average builder who might do a little bit of the books, thats just not the case.
Floyd, I take it you are calling me a troll, and you intend it as personal abuse. However coming from you it is a) water off a ducks back, and b) a compliment.
Floyd, I take it you are calling me a troll, and you intend it as personal abuse. However coming from you it is a) water off a ducks back, and b) a compliment.
Council tax? not abuse at all, but if you want to take it as such, help yourself. you dont know me. you are clearly not involved in a discussion but just want to hi jack the thread to make your point regardless of what else is discussed. Which you are entitled to do, me duck
Bournemouth, I am pretty confident you're right about the default position of travellers, and Off It I also reckon that tradespeople do pay taxes...but as you have said there may still be a bit of 'slippage' there. i also accept that travellers are at the fringe of ordered society, and they are less inclined to comply with taxes. However for us in the settled community to paint the situation as black and white, as in we're pure as the driven snow and pay every penny piece due, and travellers are evil personified and never pay anything at all is simply not credible.
As I have said earlier, I have many many times paid a bill 'cash in hand' and while there may be legitimate reasons for that, it is also a handy way for some people to avoid paying tax.
As for mr personal abuse AKA Floyd Montana, well what about council tax? Certainly the majority of travellers are unlikely to pay it, for clearly obvious reasons, and yes, when they settle for a time, and benefit from council services they ought to pay it, no dispute there, but even with council tax there are likely to be travellers who do pay. On Dale Farm there is a legitimate section, I bet some of them have been obliged to pay up, after all many of them send their children to a local school so those families are easy to track down and pin down.
Seth this could be on one of those endless loop things but a couple of points ,
Im not in a contract at the moment(so not earning) but i have spent today doing my VAT return. Seeing if my tax is up todate(please God they owe me money). I pay my poll tax by DD as i do my TV Licence and utilities. MY car is taxed + MOTd + insured---------------------please feel free to check anyone of the Dale Farm "travellars" and see if they have actually paid any one of those --------------anyone----------------------they have no intension to pay and never will. Why? because when they ruck up (offer them your front garden?) the poor bastards that have to collect these non paid bills will be smashed to a pulp going on a travellers site.
A couple of people on here work for local authorities. Ask em about going to travellers sites ? and laughingly these "travellers" say on TV the sites are shit as the toilets dont work-------------who nicked all the copper ? who nicks it off the council vans when they go to do a repair ?
Bournemouth, I am pretty confident you're right about the default position of travellers, and Off It I also reckon that tradespeople do pay taxes...but as you have said there may still be a bit of 'slippage' there. i also accept that travellers are at the fringe of ordered society, and they are less inclined to comply with taxes. However for us in the settled community to paint the situation as black and white, as in we're pure as the driven snow and pay every penny piece due, and travellers are evil personified and never pay anything at all is simply not credible.
As I have said earlier, I have many many times paid a bill 'cash in hand' and while there may be legitimate reasons for that, it is also a handy way for some people to avoid paying tax.
As for mr personal abuse AKA Floyd Montana, well what about council tax? Certainly the majority of travellers are unlikely to pay it, for clearly obvious reasons, and yes, when they settle for a time, and benefit from council services they ought to pay it, no dispute there, but even with council tax there are likely to be travellers who do pay. On Dale Farm there is a legitimate section, I bet some of them have been obliged to pay up, after all many of them send their children to a local school so those families are easy to track down and pin down.
Thanks Seth AKA mr Precious. I'm glad you agree with my point that those who settle should pay council tax. and as one whose wife is employed solely to teach 14 and 15 year old ''traveller'' children to read and write English, there is NO correlation between tax paying and school enrollment so instead of getting all precious, try discovering what the situation is like in the real world
Floyd, I take it you are calling me a troll, and you intend it as personal abuse. However coming from you it is a) water off a ducks back, and b) a compliment.
Council tax? not abuse at all, but if you want to take it as such, help yourself. you dont know me. you are clearly not involved in a discussion but just want to hi jack the thread to make your point regardless of what else is discussed. Which you are entitled to do, me duck
Well thats a relief, 'troll' is not abuse at all. How can you say i have hi-jacked a thread, I seem to be in a minority here anyway? If by hi-jack you mean diverting some folk away from the 'they're all scum, give 'em a kicking' jolly up they have been wallowing in earlier, then yes, the recent discussion(sic) about taxes has been a bit of a diversion.
Maybe you could start a thread called 'lets mindlessly abuse travellers', if you do I promise not to post on it.
Strange how some people think these people should be moved on because they don't pay tax, but defend the rights of non-doms who also pay no tax here...
Floyd strangely enough I teach traveller children too, and there IS a correlation between school enrolment and the ability of local authorities to track down the families of those children and make council tax demands. Of course a demand is no guarantee it will be paid, but then again there are instances (yes a smaller percentage) of bricks and mortar folk not paying council tax either.
Strange how some people think these people should be moved on because they don't pay tax, but defend the rights of non-doms who also pay no tax here...
Floyd strangely enough I teach traveller children too, and there IS a correlation between school enrolment and the ability of local authorities to track down the families of those children and make council tax demands. Of course a demand is no guarantee it will be paid, but then again there are instances (yes a smaller percentage) of bricks and mortar folk not paying council tax either.
Amongst your repeated red herrings about tax payers (there is always a tiny minority who get away with breaking the rules) at least half of those at Dale Farm are illegally resided. If, as you say, you teach traveller children, then do please enlighten me as to how a link is made between attendance and council tax demands. Because where we live that is absolute fantasy. And teachers have no knowledge of council tax demands - so what are you saying?
seth plum, so you are a teacher !!! well that explains it you really are a complete tosser , get yourself a propper job
you don't have to work for a living like the real working classes do you ? you think that you can dictate things like you dictate to your gypsie children ! Tosser
Acceptance at schools often requires documentary proof in the LA I work for, and the documentary proof is often the council tax demand. It helps to stop some families lying about their addresses in order to get into certain schools.
seth plum, so you are a teacher !!! well that explains it you really are a complete tosser , get yourself a propper job
you don't have to work for a living like the real working classes do you ? you think that you can dictate things like you dictate to your gypsie children ! Tosser
I can see why you hate teachers; they clearly never taught you proper English.
Being called a tosser by you is quite a compliment. Thank you.
Acceptance at schools often requires documentary proof in the LA I work for, and the documentary proof is often the council tax demand. It helps to stop some families lying about their addresses in order to get into certain schools.
''Often require'' eh? So not always. So tell us the exceptions -oh yes travellers and illegals awaiting immigration decisions. Well, IF what you say if true, you are a massive exception to the general rule in the UK Do you have illegal immigrant children in your school, awaiting decisions? What school are you at and how, as a teacher, do you get your overview of council tax correlation> Because frankly you are talking nonsense.
seth plum, so you are a teacher !!! well that explains it you really are a complete tosser , get yourself a propper job
you don't have to work for a living like the real working classes do you ? you think that you can dictate things like you dictate to your gypsie children ! Tosser
Raymondao, do I take it you would like to seek me out at the Valley to talk? Or would you like to seek me out to abuse me further and possibly use violence?
Acceptance at schools often requires documentary proof in the LA I work for, and the documentary proof is often the council tax demand. It helps to stop some families lying about their addresses in order to get into certain schools.
''Often require'' eh? So not always. So tell us the exceptions -oh yes travellers and illegals awaiting immigration decisions. Well, IF what you say if true, you are a massive exception to the general rule in the UK Do you have illegal immigrant children in your school, awaiting decisions? What school are you at and how, as a teacher, do you get your overview of council tax correlation> Because frankly you are talking nonsense.
I'd rather not say which particular school I work at, so if you choose not to believe me I won't be able to provide you with chapter and verse, because I wish to keep my place of work private. However, schools do ask for proof of address via council tax bills (for the reasons I have stated above). Because I cannot provide you with further proof, you can assume I'm talking nonsense and there will be nothing I can do about it, but I assure you, schools that have an intake policy based on proximity do indeed ask for council tax bills as proof.
Acceptance at schools often requires documentary proof in the LA I work for, and the documentary proof is often the council tax demand. It helps to stop some families lying about their addresses in order to get into certain schools.
''Often require'' eh? So not always. So tell us the exceptions -oh yes travellers and illegals awaiting immigration decisions. Well, IF what you say if true, you are a massive exception to the general rule in the UK Do you have illegal immigrant children in your school, awaiting decisions? What school are you at and how, as a teacher, do you get your overview of council tax correlation> Because frankly you are talking nonsense.
I'd rather not say which particular school I work at, so if you choose not to believe me I won't be able to provide you with chapter and verse, because I wish to keep my place of work private. However, schools do ask for proof of address via council tax bills (for the reasons I have stated above). Because I cannot provide you with further proof, you can assume I'm talking nonsense and there will be nothing I can do about it, but I assure you, schools that have an intake policy based on proximity do indeed ask for council tax bills as proof.
Look I'm sorry you dont want to accept this point, but does your school accept illegal immigrants awaiting immigration status. Yes or no. Does your school accept travellers. Yes or no? How do you, as a teacher, know the link between these entrants and council tax demands? And how do you, as a classroom teacher, know the situation in the rest of the country?
Acceptance at schools often requires documentary proof in the LA I work for, and the documentary proof is often the council tax demand. It helps to stop some families lying about their addresses in order to get into certain schools.
''Often require'' eh? So not always. So tell us the exceptions -oh yes travellers and illegals awaiting immigration decisions. Well, IF what you say if true, you are a massive exception to the general rule in the UK Do you have illegal immigrant children in your school, awaiting decisions? What school are you at and how, as a teacher, do you get your overview of council tax correlation> Because frankly you are talking nonsense.
Do you think that such children should go uneducated?
Comments
Seth, I can say with absolute certainty that the default position of travellers is to leave as little a paper trail as is possible - its the default position not the other way around. Im not going into details but for example I know of a recent example where a bill of £800 became £2000 because the old boy refused to pay cash, due to the "vat & extra admin". For 2 hours work.
Please dont suggest they are no worse than the average builder who might do a little bit of the books, thats just not the case.
not abuse at all, but if you want to take it as such, help yourself. you dont know me.
you are clearly not involved in a discussion but just want to hi jack the thread to make your point regardless of what else is discussed.
Which you are entitled to do, me duck
Bournemouth, I am pretty confident you're right about the default position of travellers, and Off It I also reckon that tradespeople do pay taxes...but as you have said there may still be a bit of 'slippage' there. i also accept that travellers are at the fringe of ordered society, and they are less inclined to comply with taxes. However for us in the settled community to paint the situation as black and white, as in we're pure as the driven snow and pay every penny piece due, and travellers are evil personified and never pay anything at all is simply not credible.
As I have said earlier, I have many many times paid a bill 'cash in hand' and while there may be legitimate reasons for that, it is also a handy way for some people to avoid paying tax.
As for mr personal abuse AKA Floyd Montana, well what about council tax? Certainly the majority of travellers are unlikely to pay it, for clearly obvious reasons, and yes, when they settle for a time, and benefit from council services they ought to pay it, no dispute there, but even with council tax there are likely to be travellers who do pay. On Dale Farm there is a legitimate section, I bet some of them have been obliged to pay up, after all many of them send their children to a local school so those families are easy to track down and pin down.
I'm glad you agree with my point that those who settle should pay council tax.
and as one whose wife is employed solely to teach 14 and 15 year old ''traveller'' children to read and write English, there is NO correlation between tax paying and school enrollment so instead of getting all precious, try discovering what the situation is like in the real world
Well thats a relief, 'troll' is not abuse at all. How can you say i have hi-jacked a thread, I seem to be in a minority here anyway? If by hi-jack you mean diverting some folk away from the 'they're all scum, give 'em a kicking' jolly up they have been wallowing in earlier, then yes, the recent discussion(sic) about taxes has been a bit of a diversion.
Maybe you could start a thread called 'lets mindlessly abuse travellers', if you do I promise not to post on it.
Strange how some people think these people should be moved on because they don't pay tax, but defend the rights of non-doms who also pay no tax here...
If, as you say, you teach traveller children, then do please enlighten me as to how a link is made between attendance and council tax demands. Because where we live that is absolute fantasy.
And teachers have no knowledge of council tax demands - so what are you saying?
seth plum, so you are a teacher !!! well that explains it you really are a complete tosser , get yourself a propper job
you don't have to work for a living like the real working classes do you ? you think that you can dictate things like you dictate to your gypsie children ! Tosser
I can see why you hate teachers; they clearly never taught you proper English.
Being called a tosser by you is quite a compliment. Thank you.
it would be fun to chat further tomorrow at the game
Well, IF what you say if true, you are a massive exception to the general rule in the UK
Do you have illegal immigrant children in your school, awaiting decisions?
What school are you at and how, as a teacher, do you get your overview of council tax correlation>
Because frankly you are talking nonsense.
no violence ...i want a spelling lesson
Name three more difficult tasks...
A grammar lesson wouldn't go amiss either.
I'd rather not say which particular school I work at, so if you choose not to believe me I won't be able to provide you with chapter and verse, because I wish to keep my place of work private. However, schools do ask for proof of address via council tax bills (for the reasons I have stated above). Because I cannot provide you with further proof, you can assume I'm talking nonsense and there will be nothing I can do about it, but I assure you, schools that have an intake policy based on proximity do indeed ask for council tax bills as proof.
Thank goodness you do at least have a sense of humour.
Does your school accept travellers. Yes or no?
How do you, as a teacher, know the link between these entrants and council tax demands?
And how do you, as a classroom teacher, know the situation in the rest of the country?
Do you think that such children should go uneducated?