Why, because I hate a boring to watch, IMHO, minority sport that thinks it's better morally and socially than football.
The way the Barnet Council have bent over backwards to help a rugby side while screwing their local and long standing football team is just another example of this.
Why, because I hate a boring to watch, IMHO, minority sport that thinks it's better morally and socially than football.
The way the Barnet Council have bent over backwards to help a rugby side while screwing their local and long standing football team is just another example of this.
No, because open minded means unprejudiced.
Interesting that a sport can 'think' - I'll remember that next time I'm sitting next to opposition supporters sharing a round of drinks with them as we watch the game.
Open minded does not mean not having firm opinions though.
Prejudiced means pre-judged but you have used the wrong word. I haven't pre-judged Rugby. My opinion is based on observation and experience over many years.
Your comment on sharing a drink is a classic example of the "rugby is socially and morally better than football" attitude that permeates the whole sport.
Why, because I hate a boring to watch, IMHO, minority sport that thinks it's better morally and socially than football.
The way the Barnet Council have bent over backwards to help a rugby side while screwing their local and long standing football team is just another example of this.
Why, because I hate a boring to watch, IMHO, minority sport that thinks it's better morally and socially than football.
The way the Barnet Council have bent over backwards to help a rugby side while screwing their local and long standing football team is just another example of this.
Why, because I hate a boring to watch, IMHO, minority sport that thinks it's better morally and socially than football.
The way the Barnet Council have bent over backwards to help a rugby side while screwing their local and long standing football team is just another example of this.
Why not hate Barnet council instead?
Or even better.....as well.
Agree, always room for more hate in the world : - )
I'm disappointed with how this thread has turned out.
I have always had a soft spot for Barnet and used to follow Welling to away games there. Their big traditional rivals Enfield have long since pretty much disappeared and Cineworld has replaced the traditional Southbury Ground .
Since moving north of the River five years ago I probably attend about six games a year and enjoy my visits . They are a good community club who remind me a bit of a lower league version of ourselves . The Ground has seen better days but is conviently located . The club own most of the houses around it and land around the Cricket pitch but cannot develop the facilities because it borders Greenbelt . The current crisis is because the lease on some car parking land is up for renewal and the Council will not allow access anymore from midway through next season .
Their problem is most of their fans really support Arsenal or Spurs so the political pressure is not there in the way it was for us . Barnet was apart from the last 20 years a non league club and have only had one disastrous season in the third tier when Barry Fry and the ticket tout Stan Flashman who was their Chairman almost bankrupted them
The Chairman Tony Kleanous has a plan b however . Some years ago he purchased an excellant training facility in Mill Hill and branded it the Hive . On this site he already has planning permission to build a League capacity stadium . Geographically this would move them away from Barnet Town and completely away from the Council as the site is technically in Harrow .
I suspect this will be thier ultimate destination if the Council remain unreasonable .
It may be a better solution for them in th elong run but it is sad as Barnet have a long and rich tradition, mostly as a non league side and Underhill is part of that. It was reasonable to bring in Rugby as an example of the council treating 2 clubs differently- the debate shouldn't be about hating Rugby but about Barnet and fairness.
It may be a better solution for them in th elong run but it is sad as Barnet have a long and rich tradition, mostly as a non league side and Underhill is part of that. It was reasonable to bring in Rugby as an example of the council treating 2 clubs differently- the debate shouldn't be about hating Rugby but about Barnet and fairness.
went there last year for our F.A cup tie. Seemed a nice but run down place and how can the council charge them £1 million a year for a ground that holds less than 4,000?
I have always had a soft spot for Barnet and used to follow Welling to away games there. Their big traditional rivals Enfield have long since pretty much disappeared and Cineworld has replaced the traditional Southbury Ground .
Since moving north of the River five years ago I probably attend about six games a year and enjoy my visits . They are a good community club who remind me a bit of a lower league version of ourselves . The Ground has seen better days but is conviently located . The club own most of the houses around it and land around the Cricket pitch but cannot develop the facilities because it borders Greenbelt . The current crisis is because the lease on some car parking land is up for renewal and the Council will not allow access anymore from midway through next season .
Their problem is most of their fans really support Arsenal or Spurs so the political pressure is not there in the way it was for us . Barnet was apart from the last 20 years a non league club and have only had one disastrous season in the third tier when Barry Fry and the ticket tout Stan Flashman who was their Chairman almost bankrupted them
The Chairman Tony Kleanous has a plan b however . Some years ago he purchased an excellant training facility in Mill Hill and branded it the Hive . On this site he already has planning permission to build a League capacity stadium . Geographically this would move them away from Barnet Town and completely away from the Council as the site is technically in Harrow .
I suspect this will be thier ultimate destination if the Council remain unreasonable .
Cheers for the post Richard. I'm glad to see that the club should be O.K.
Its all money really isn't it. Maybe the council think a rugby club and rugby fans will bring in more money than league 2 football and Barnet's fans. Larger crowds, more families, willing to make a day of it in the local area.
Its sad when any club is moved out of its historical home but maybe this move could benefit Barnet. Moving to the Hive would see Barnet closer to areas like Mill Hill and Queensbury, I imagine they would keep most of the support they already have and maybe pick up a few more fans in these areas. My other half lives close by in Mill Hill Broadway and if this move to the Hive goes ahead I know he'd be more interested in seeing a few games. Hopefully other people would feel the same.
This isn’t about the Rugby club but about a businessman, the local council and a bit of prime housing space in North London<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
My inlaws house backs onto Underhill and Father in Law a Barnet supporter he paints a very different picture of the situation…
Underhill was purchased from the council for £10k about 10 years ago a ridiculously low figure for a bit of Green Belt land, this has been investigated several times by auditors and the police. Despite purchasing the ground Tony Kleanthous made it quite clear that Barnet needed a new ground as this was insufficient, despite all this 'we need to move' talk he also purchased the nearby Cricket Club and houses to 'expand Underhill'. The feeling amongst residents is that as soon as Barnet find their new ground the site will be sold off as a brownfield site and open to housing development (anyone want to guess Mr Kleanthous other business interests?!) which they believe was the goal from the get go, and that questionable actions went on at council level, which have never been proven.
Interestingly there is also clause in the purchase contract for Underhill that the council will receive 60% profit from sale of the ground if Barnet moved out of the area of their own accord, however if it could be proven that the Council forced the football club out then all the money would end up in the Barnet FC holding company anyone want to guess the timeline on the clause or the owner of the holding company?!
Just to muddy the waters a little more Kleanthous purchased a 44 acre ’training ground’ in Harrow and proposed to build a state of the art training centre and a stadium for the local non league club there which has been approved and is being funded by several grants from the local council and the FA and a chunk from Barnet FC… which seems like a very nice thing to do for the local non league club doesn’t it?!
Mr Kleanthous has been looking for a return on his investment for a while so an nice spat with the council using the Rugby club means he call sell off Underhill for development (I wonder which company he might use to do this?) and with the money develop the stadium he already has planning permission for in Harrow… Council look like the bad guys & don’t get any money, Barnet fans get a brand new stadium 5 miles down the road and Mr Kleanthous gets a big fat profit.
As for Saracens their original home ground is Southgate, approx 3 miles from Barnet. They are minted, owned by the richest man in South Africa and local North London businessman, they first expressed an interest in Copthall stadium back in 1997 but had to play home games at Southgate, then shared with Enfield FC and then Watford. They have submitted planning permission for £18million worth of improvements for the Barnet Copthall stadium which would mean a total rebuild and new grounds for the sides that currently play there, including that the current athletics & hockey teams can remain there and use the facilities http://www.copthallrevival.co.uk/ from the council point of view they have tenants that will rebuild the place and manage it for the local community and so it saves them a pretty penny.They’re desperate to offload the place and the money drain it has become… however planning permission has not been granted yet.
It is interesting how events and motives can be viewed and that T views Mr Kleanous differently to myself . Yes he is a Property devoloper but he is also a genuine Bees fan and well respected in the game .
Barnet is (unsurprisingly ) a Tory Borough and has been for many years . The one gap in this in living memory was between 1994 and 1998 when there was a Lab /Lib Coalition , it was during this time that the deal to sell Underhill was made to reassure the club that they were wanted in the Borough . The plan then long term was to either develop Underhill or move Barnet to Copthall themselves. This is why the 60% safeguard was put in , the hike in the lease for the car park could be seen as 'forcing ' them out .
Kleanous wisely needed a plan b and that is why he purchased and developed the Hive which is geographically closer to Barnet than central Harrow although within the Borough of Harrow .I'm told that the facilities there are excellant and it is regularly used by International teams playing at Wembley . They also have a good Football in the Community scheme .Of course I suspect he saw the Stadium there as an alternative for Underhill if communication with the Council failed.
He has spent Millions on a new south stand at Underhill to make it suitable to continue to house league football.
Comments
The way the Barnet Council have bent over backwards to help a rugby side while screwing their local and long standing football team is just another example of this.
Interesting that a sport can 'think' - I'll remember that next time I'm sitting next to opposition supporters sharing a round of drinks with them as we watch the game.
Which would you prefer?
Prejudiced means pre-judged but you have used the wrong word. I haven't pre-judged Rugby. My opinion is based on observation and experience over many years.
Your comment on sharing a drink is a classic example of the "rugby is socially and morally better than football" attitude that permeates the whole sport.
.
Or even better.....as well.
You brought up the rugby comparison : - )
I have always had a soft spot for Barnet and used to follow Welling to away games there. Their big traditional rivals Enfield have long since pretty much disappeared and Cineworld has replaced the traditional Southbury Ground .
Since moving north of the River five years ago I probably attend about six games a year and enjoy my visits . They are a good community club who remind me a bit of a lower league version of ourselves . The Ground has seen better days but is conviently located . The club own most of the houses around it and land around the Cricket pitch but cannot develop the facilities because it borders Greenbelt . The current crisis is because the lease on some car parking land is up for renewal and the Council will not allow access anymore from midway through next season .
Their problem is most of their fans really support Arsenal or Spurs so the political pressure is not there in the way it was for us . Barnet was apart from the last 20 years a non league club and have only had one disastrous season in the third tier when Barry Fry and the ticket tout Stan Flashman who was their Chairman almost bankrupted them
The Chairman Tony Kleanous has a plan b however . Some years ago he purchased an excellant training facility in Mill Hill and branded it the Hive . On this site he already has planning permission to build a League capacity stadium . Geographically this would move them away from Barnet Town and completely away from the Council as the site is technically in Harrow .
I suspect this will be thier ultimate destination if the Council remain unreasonable .
This isn’t about the Rugby club but about a businessman, the local council and a bit of prime housing space in North London<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
My inlaws house backs onto Underhill and Father in Law a Barnet supporter he paints a very different picture of the situation…
Underhill was purchased from the council for £10k about 10 years ago a ridiculously low figure for a bit of Green Belt land, this has been investigated several times by auditors and the police. Despite purchasing the ground Tony Kleanthous made it quite clear that Barnet needed a new ground as this was insufficient, despite all this 'we need to move' talk he also purchased the nearby Cricket Club and houses to 'expand Underhill'. The feeling amongst residents is that as soon as Barnet find their new ground the site will be sold off as a brownfield site and open to housing development (anyone want to guess Mr Kleanthous other business interests?!) which they believe was the goal from the get go, and that questionable actions went on at council level, which have never been proven.
Interestingly there is also clause in the purchase contract for Underhill that the council will receive 60% profit from sale of the ground if Barnet moved out of the area of their own accord, however if it could be proven that the Council forced the football club out then all the money would end up in the Barnet FC holding company anyone want to guess the timeline on the clause or the owner of the holding company?!
Just to muddy the waters a little more Kleanthous purchased a 44 acre ’training ground’ in Harrow and proposed to build a state of the art training centre and a stadium for the local non league club there which has been approved and is being funded by several grants from the local council and the FA and a chunk from Barnet FC… which seems like a very nice thing to do for the local non league club doesn’t it?!
Mr Kleanthous has been looking for a return on his investment for a while so an nice spat with the council using the Rugby club means he call sell off Underhill for development (I wonder which company he might use to do this?) and with the money develop the stadium he already has planning permission for in Harrow… Council look like the bad guys & don’t get any money, Barnet fans get a brand new stadium 5 miles down the road and Mr Kleanthous gets a big fat profit.
As for Saracens their original home ground is Southgate, approx 3 miles from Barnet. They are minted, owned by the richest man in South Africa and local North London businessman, they first expressed an interest in Copthall stadium back in 1997 but had to play home games at Southgate, then shared with Enfield FC and then Watford. They have submitted planning permission for £18million worth of improvements for the Barnet Copthall stadium which would mean a total rebuild and new grounds for the sides that currently play there, including that the current athletics & hockey teams can remain there and use the facilities http://www.copthallrevival.co.uk/ from the council point of view they have tenants that will rebuild the place and manage it for the local community and so it saves them a pretty penny. They’re desperate to offload the place and the money drain it has become… however planning permission has not been granted yet.
PS Rugby is still boring : - )
It is interesting how events and motives can be viewed and that T views Mr Kleanous differently to myself . Yes he is a Property devoloper but he is also a genuine Bees fan and well respected in the game .
Barnet is (unsurprisingly ) a Tory Borough and has been for many years . The one gap in this in living memory was between 1994 and 1998 when there was a Lab /Lib Coalition , it was during this time that the deal to sell Underhill was made to reassure the club that they were wanted in the Borough . The plan then long term was to either develop Underhill or move Barnet to Copthall themselves. This is why the 60% safeguard was put in , the hike in the lease for the car park could be seen as 'forcing ' them out .
Kleanous wisely needed a plan b and that is why he purchased and developed the Hive which is geographically closer to Barnet than central Harrow although within the Borough of Harrow .I'm told that the facilities there are excellant and it is regularly used by International teams playing at Wembley . They also have a good Football in the Community scheme .Of course I suspect he saw the Stadium there as an alternative for Underhill if communication with the Council failed.
He has spent Millions on a new south stand at Underhill to make it suitable to continue to house league football.