the elephant in the "curbs interview room" is that he sued his previous employers after he resigned not many chairman are going to see that as a selling point and its a fact that is so in the public gaze .In my view hes a good decent man (not a great manager but a good one )who d be ideal for a birmingham /notts forest ..he deserves another job ..if uwe rosler can get a job in british football then so can curbs
This and the England interview maybe gave him ideas that he is above managing in the Championship. Love the bloke for what he did for my club though!
Still think we would be in a much healthier position if we pulled out the stops and got Billy Davies as a replacement but it's all hindsight now.
We did. He was offered it, he was staying at The Marriot. He said he'd give us an answer the next morning. He didn't call us & when we called him, he had buggered off back oop north.
Seems to be an unlikeable so and so, which is why Forest got rid & was none too popular at Derby either.
The reason he said no was because he didn't like the structure he would have had to manage under -ironically pretty much the same structure he had with Forest -which he accepted but spoke out against at every opportunity. Pulling out the stops was putting the right man above the structure but Murray at this time was thinking he was the reason for Charlton's success rather than Curbs.
He must be an idiot considering he bought Charlton the best of times the last 60 years. Bought players like Kinsella, Mendonca, Bent, Robbinson etc, took us to the Premiership.
I do accept peoples opinion but that is just ridiculous.
I was actually calling Bexley Dan an idiot not Curbs!
The reason he said no was because he didn't like the structure he would have had to manage under -ironically pretty much the same structure he had with Forest -which he accepted but spoke out against at every opportunity. Pulling out the stops was putting the right man above the structure but Murray at this time was thinking he was the reason for Charlton's success rather than Curbs.
When did Richard Murray ever say/give the impression that he was the reason for our success rather than Curbs?
The moment he forgot the reasons for our success - good manager and supportive chairman and decided on a new structure making the manager a coach (which was never going to attract the necessary calibre). I will and have defended Murray from vitriol as I believe he is a Charlton man and he did everything for the good of the club. As well as being chairman in one of our most successful periods. But I will always maintain he made a massive mistake with that structure which unfortunately we have paid for ever since. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I do believe and did then that the key to a strong team is to appoint the right manager and let him get on with it. Yes, Davies may not be likeable- many good managers are'nt, but I believe he had the attributes to take the club on from Curbs.
We'll never know for sure though.But if we cant speculate on here, where can we?
The moment he forgot the reasons for our success - good manager and supportive chairman and decided on a new structure making the manager a coach (which was never going to attract the necessary calibre). I will and have defended Murray from vitriol as I believe he is a Charlton man and he did everything for the good of the club. As well as being chairman in one of our most successful periods. But I will always maintain he made a massive mistake with that structure which unfortunately we have paid for ever since. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I do believe and did then that the key to a strong team is to appoint the right manager and let him get on with it. Yes, Davies may not be likeable- many good managers are'nt, but I believe he had the attributes to take the club on from Curbs.
We'll never know for sure though.But if we cant speculate on here, where can we?
Your points are well made, but your accusation was that Murray was taking credit for the success. Personally I think it was a team effort - Curbs and Muzzer made a good team, along with Varney, clearly they knew each other well, trusted one another and that's important. Muzzer gave Curbs full rein to get in whichever players he wanted, but unlike other managers you never heasrd Curbs moan about the financial constraints that he had to work under. As for the new structure, I think it was designed to allow Murray to take a more back seat role. By then Varney had left and I would assume that Murray wanted to spend more time with his other business/family and social commitments and felt that was the right time to implement it. Bear in mind that the management structure is highly successful - but in mainland Europe where it has been in place for years and where all parties know where the ground lies. The problem was I think not so much that in British football it was revolutionary, but that Dowie paid lip service to it when he joined and then didn't work under it and then Pardew presumably made it clear that he wanted to be in sole charge. By then Les Reed had left and there was only Andrew Mills to pay off.
But that Murray was trying to implement a new mangement structure is hardly evidence in my opinion that he was taking too much control, to me it looks the opposite.
Also my accusation was not that Murray was publically taking credit (although there was a bit of self congratulation creeping in to his interviews), but not fully appreciating the reasons for it. His good Chairmanship was to identify Curbishley's qulaities, take the bold step of appointing him as sole manager when Gritt may have been the more popular choice and then supporting him to do his job. Davies and Taylor both wanted more power to manage as Curbs had - I don't think Taylor was the man for the job but I also don't think there was anybody remotely close to Davies as being right for us at that time. Given that fact, my view is that Murray had to do what was necessary to get him but the structure took precedence over the manager. For all the rights and wrongs of this structure or that, getting the right person was key and we didn't. Dowie did indeed play lip service to the structure which ended in his sacking - despite not being as good a candidate IMO as Davies by a long way- Dowie did have the team playing with some fight and spirit which evaporated when Uncle Les took over. We will never know what would have happened if Dowie wasn't sacked when he was. My guess is he would have been sacked eventually but had he been sacked later in the season when Pardew took over, we may have gained more points and Pardew could have saved us. An interesting thought and maybe in a parallel universe where that happened, Pardew is still a Charlton legend.
Putting it simply; The many-worlds interpretation is a postulate of quantum mechanics that asserts the objective reality of the universal wavefunction, but denies the actuality of wavefunction collapse, which implies that all possible alternative histories and futures are real—each representing an actual "world" (or "universe"). It is also referred to as MWI, the relative state formulation, the Everett interpretation, the theory of the universal wavefunction, many-universes interpretation, or just many worlds.
Would that be me or the jammy Muttley who has just enjoyed watching Charton win both the League and Champions League this season? I really hate that Muttley. Mind you I can't complain, the Muttley who just saw us relegated to League 2 is worse off than me.
Varney left two years after the aborted change of Management set up.
Murray has said, publically, that Davies was offered the job, was offered more money when he asked for it, and he was told he could have the job but turned it down. When asked why he turned the job down the reason he gave was that Curbishley was too hard an act to follow wnd he (Davies) believed that the club would struggle in the season following Chrbishley's departure.
It has to be said that he was hardly wrong about his prediction, and despite not having a great reputation in some of the places he's been he did win promotion with Derby and took Forrest from a relegation dog fight to playoffs in two successive seasons.
Mutley, you might be right, he might have changed our fortunes, but I am confdent that there was nothing else we could have done to persuade him to join us. We will never know what the truth of the matter was, but what I am sure of is that we as good aas begged him to come and he still said no.
I heard slightly differently -people sometimes answer questions diplomatically. That's all I'll say. We'll never know whether more could have been done to get him - it wasn't and we didn't.
Curbishley offered to help find a new manager, curbs offered to work his last year, murray turned it down , obviously cos he thought he knew better And murray forced the management structure on dowie Curbs carried us and that's a FACT
Dont agree that Curbs is "not the brightest spark" as somebody said above. Obviously he isn't an oxbridge candidate but who is? just cos hes a cockney boy people get the wrong impression - i actually think the fella is pretty switched on and intelligent and makes well-considered decisions unlike most in football these days. I think he always spoke a hell of a lot of sense about football and people etc, and I think his intelligence has continued to shine through since he left us. He has not jumped at any old managerial job which wasn't the right opportunity. He can see when its not suitable - i specifically remember him saying he wouldnt want to go to newcastle, for example, because he knew you were on a hiding to nothing there. Big Sam made that mistake. And he's completely justified in not wanting to go and manage somebody like Blackburn or wigan or hull. Small clubs terrible support no real potential to develop. Why bother moving all the way up there for that? Nothing in it for him except £££.
Some people say he is a bottle job for not taking certain jobs cos 'if he was good enough he'd be able to do a good job', but as far as i'm concerned in 95% of the cases (maybe mourinho could be an exception) you've got to be the right fit to do a good job as manager. Whether that means having the right personality for the fans / club, knowing or being from the area, having played for them in the past or be connected in some way - whatever it is. But that's why so many managers - who are often good managers - fail so often, because they take any old job which isn't the right fit for them. It's not so different from the real world. Lots of intelligent people out there but they don't all fit in at every company or in every workplace. I think Curbs has shown he has more intelligence than most by being able to spot when he's not the right fit for a job. Villa is one he potentially would be - ex player, spine of english 'curbs-type' players, their supporters aren't too bad in my opinion (every clubs got their dickheads but on the whole theyre not birmingham scum or geordies with ridiculous expectations), but the bigger clubs like them don't want him cos he's not flash.
... remember when i was about 10 in about 1995 i was in the club shop in the close season and my mum was outside waiting in the car. Curbs wandered over to her (she didn't even recognise him) and asked her if she was okay did she need any directions. Charming bloke, true gent, intelligent fella - I bloody love that man.
The one shining quality of the gentleman is his integrity.
Some on here see it is a criticism of him that he stood up to the West Ham board, or that he stupidly missed out on financial gain for the sake of a (legal) battle of principles. I see him as a man who is true to his word. A rare commodity in Football.
Agree with PaulS and Floyd. I never met Curbs but everyone i have met who had dealings with him (and they are a very diverse bunch) have had nothing but praise for his integrity and intelligence.
I was at a Q&A session with Curbs about nine months ago and among the things he said was that just before he decided that he would not be renewing his contract he asked Richard Murray for £5ml as he had both Jimmy Bullard and Steve Sidwell lined up for the following season.
He was refused........................ The rest is history!
I was at a Q&A session with Curbs about nine months ago and among the things he said was that just before he decided that he would not be renewing his contract he asked Richard Murray for £5ml as he had both Jimmy Bullard and Steve Sidwell lined up for the following season.
He was refused........................ The rest is history!
Well, if true and i've no reason to think it's not, it's got to be said that for however brilliant RM was in our rise, he really made some shocking decisions in the latter years. Not having a pop because i'm sure they were all made with the best of intentions and i'm sure he's cursing them in hindsight even more than us.
Worse than the above murray tried to play hardball with tim cahill thinking he'd rather stay down here and agree lesser terms with us than move up north to everton .... One that got away
Worse than the above murray tried to play hardball with tim cahill thinking he'd rather stay down here and agree lesser terms with us than move up north to everton .... One that got away
Being realistic, he was never going to choose us over Everton anyway.
Comments
We did. He was offered it, he was staying at The Marriot. He said he'd give us an answer the next morning. He didn't call us & when we called him, he had buggered off back oop north.
Seems to be an unlikeable so and so, which is why Forest got rid & was none too popular at Derby either.
When did Richard Murray ever say/give the impression that he was the reason for our success rather than Curbs?
The moment he forgot the reasons for our success - good manager and supportive chairman and decided on a new structure making the manager a coach (which was never going to attract the necessary calibre). I will and have defended Murray from vitriol as I believe he is a Charlton man and he did everything for the good of the club. As well as being chairman in one of our most successful periods. But I will always maintain he made a massive mistake with that structure which unfortunately we have paid for ever since. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I do believe and did then that the key to a strong team is to appoint the right manager and let him get on with it. Yes, Davies may not be likeable- many good managers are'nt, but I believe he had the attributes to take the club on from Curbs.
We'll never know for sure though.But if we cant speculate on here, where can we?
Your points are well made, but your accusation was that Murray was taking credit for the success. Personally I think it was a team effort - Curbs and Muzzer made a good team, along with Varney, clearly they knew each other well, trusted one another and that's important. Muzzer gave Curbs full rein to get in whichever players he wanted, but unlike other managers you never heasrd Curbs moan about the financial constraints that he had to work under. As for the new structure, I think it was designed to allow Murray to take a more back seat role. By then Varney had left and I would assume that Murray wanted to spend more time with his other business/family and social commitments and felt that was the right time to implement it. Bear in mind that the management structure is highly successful - but in mainland Europe where it has been in place for years and where all parties know where the ground lies. The problem was I think not so much that in British football it was revolutionary, but that Dowie paid lip service to it when he joined and then didn't work under it and then Pardew presumably made it clear that he wanted to be in sole charge. By then Les Reed had left and there was only Andrew Mills to pay off.
But that Murray was trying to implement a new mangement structure is hardly evidence in my opinion that he was taking too much control, to me it looks the opposite.
Putting it simply; The many-worlds interpretation is a postulate of quantum mechanics that asserts the objective reality of the universal wavefunction, but denies the actuality of wavefunction collapse, which implies that all possible alternative histories and futures are real—each representing an actual "world" (or "universe"). It is also referred to as MWI, the relative state formulation, the Everett interpretation, the theory of the universal wavefunction, many-universes interpretation, or just many worlds.
Varney left two years after the aborted change of Management set up.
Murray has said, publically, that Davies was offered the job, was offered more money when he asked for it, and he was told he could have the job but turned it down. When asked why he turned the job down the reason he gave was that Curbishley was too hard an act to follow wnd he (Davies) believed that the club would struggle in the season following Chrbishley's departure.
It has to be said that he was hardly wrong about his prediction, and despite not having a great reputation in some of the places he's been he did win promotion with Derby and took Forrest from a relegation dog fight to playoffs in two successive seasons.
Mutley, you might be right, he might have changed our fortunes, but I am confdent that there was nothing else we could have done to persuade him to join us. We will never know what the truth of the matter was, but what I am sure of is that we as good aas begged him to come and he still said no.
And murray forced the management structure on dowie
Curbs carried us and that's a FACT
The one shining quality of the gentleman is his integrity.
Some on here see it is a criticism of him that he stood up to the West Ham board, or that he stupidly missed out on financial gain for the sake of a (legal) battle of principles. I see him as a man who is true to his word. A rare commodity in Football.
We could call it the Murray Mint,
I was at a Q&A session with Curbs about nine months ago and among the things he said was that just before he decided that he would not be renewing his contract he asked Richard Murray for £5ml as he had both Jimmy Bullard and Steve Sidwell lined up for the following season.
He was refused........................ The rest is history!
Being realistic, he was never going to choose us over Everton anyway.