Have to agree with B.D. There are so many reasons we are not as good as spain, just lay the blame at the door of coaching is wrong.
So, if you two want to continue this wind-up, how about producing a more plausible reason than ''genetics'', or the very lame ''there are so many reasons'' Name a few. Your lazy, ('about time we stop thinking there is a reason') defeatist attitude encapsulates the problem with football in this country. Do you think the rugby, cycling, athletics, cricket teams have this pathetic attitude?
Bearing in mind earlier you stated that only Spain are a good football team, despite Germany being World champions and the others I mentioned with coaching statistics all having won more championships than england. EVEN GREECE who only have 180,000 registered players.
So are you saying that genetics aren't a major factor, the most important factor? Of course they are. By your logic, the arabs will just buy in thousands of qualified coaches and win everything. Utter guff.
Murdoch do you honestly believe we would be a match for a team like the Dutch? They have been the form team since the World Cup, 8 wins, 2 draws and a hell of a lot of goals. And have been playing some decent stuff. Probably not ideal to compare us to them since they (arguably) overacheived at the WC so lets take another side that have, like us, underacheived in recent years.
Italy have transformed the way they have played recently under Prandelli, take the match against Estonia on Friday, they won 3-0, 82% possession, 17 shots and I think I saw a stat on twitter saying they made 839 passes. I know you will argue it's only Estonia but can you see England dominating like that against any side? I think over the past few years that has happened on very few occasions and at international level that is the way you have to play, possession is king and our players/domestic leagues are not conducive for that.
You will have to do better than that Dan. You still havent named a reason. I mean, why dont the Arabs just eat chorizo and breed with Brazilians?. Total tosh
95% genetics 5% coaching. Great stuff. Keep it up!
It tastes great, you have one in the evening, what harm could it do? Then it happens...It just happens, believe me, I've been there. It's a dark place. Be careful... very dark.
It tastes great, you have one in the evening, what harm could it do? Then it happens...It just happens, believe me, I've been there. It's a dark place. Be careful... very dark.
I need to get out of this office.
the worst is when you eat it and then go and play with some stiff legged robotic non chorizo eaters - the frustration is immense. Go home Murdoch, go for a 10 mile run then go to sleep - do not, under any circumstances attempt a kick about with the kids.
Murdoch do you honestly believe we would be a match for a team like the Dutch? They have been the form team since the World Cup, 8 wins, 2 draws and a hell of a lot of goals. And have been playing some decent stuff. Probably not ideal to compare us to them since they (arguably) overacheived at the WC so lets take another side that have, like us, underacheived in recent years. Italy have transformed the way they have played recently under Prandelli, take the match against Estonia on Friday, they won 3-0, 82% possession, 17 shots and I think I saw a stat on twitter saying they made 839 passes. I know you will argue it's only Estonia but can you see England dominating like that against any side? I think over the past few years that has happened on very few occasions and at international level that is the way you have to play, possession is king and our players/domestic leagues are not conducive for that. I don't think we could match the Dutch or Italians with the team we put out on Saturday. I must say they are incredible stats for Italy. Didn't know that cheers. If we had our first choice team out we would give the Dutch a game. If the Italians are back to there most depressing best we would always struggle against that style, you couldn't really say until you've seem them up against a better side. Would be an amazing turn around for them if they had.
It tastes great, you have one in the evening, what harm could it do? Then it happens...It just happens, believe me, I've been there. It's a dark place. Be careful... very dark.
I need to get out of this office.
the worst is when you eat it and then go and play with some stiff legged robotic non chorizo eaters - the frustration is immense. Go home Murdoch, go for a 10 mile run then go to sleep - do not, under any circumstances attempt a kick about with the kids.
The phones are silent, I am off.
The treadmill is calling. I need run hard whilst viewing some orange faced milf in Lycra flirting with her PT.
Murdoch do you honestly believe we would be a match for a team like the Dutch? They have been the form team since the World Cup, 8 wins, 2 draws and a hell of a lot of goals. And have been playing some decent stuff. Probably not ideal to compare us to them since they (arguably) overacheived at the WC so lets take another side that have, like us, underacheived in recent years.
Italy have transformed the way they have played recently under Prandelli, take the match against Estonia on Friday, they won 3-0, 82% possession, 17 shots and I think I saw a stat on twitter saying they made 839 passes. I know you will argue it's only Estonia but can you see England dominating like that against any side? I think over the past few years that has happened on very few occasions and at international level that is the way you have to play, possession is king and our players/domestic leagues are not conducive for that.
we try to play at an international pace but dont keep the ball for long enough and try to patiently carve teams open. we make a few passes and then go direct....which if your going to do, the pace has to be how it is at domestic level. this is where i believe redknapp would come in useful. he took tottenham into europe and made then play in exactly the same fashion to which they do in the prem...it took teams like Inter by suprise. Would like to see England do that.
Redknapp isn't a tactician, players have admitted in the past he doesn't talk to them at all about tactics, they are told 5 mins before they head out who they will be picking up at corners. He is however a good man manager (as much as it pains me to say it, although clearly just didn't like Bent).
At International level you need more than just pace, teams like Inter were undone because they just aren't good enough to cope with pace. At international level the top defenders can deal with that and they have managers good enough to employ tactics to stop it.
You will have to do better than that Dan. You still havent named a reason. I mean, why dont the Arabs just eat chorizo and breed with Brazilians?. Total tosh
95% genetics 5% coaching. Great stuff. Keep it up!
This is no wind up monty. My question about the arabs and the coaching remains. If i'm understanding you right, you are saying that coaching is more important than natural ability (or genetics as you like to call it) and therefore, taken to a logical conclusion, if you have thousands of the best coaches in the world employed in saudi arabia, you will win the world cup. Don't think so.I'd say that natural ability is 95% of it. France had a great crop that came through, as Spain have now . The other super powers are always there or there abouts. Have France suddenly got less coaches? We are second tier and always have been and we can look for as many different excuses as we like but the fundamental fact remains that as a nation we are not naturally the best at football. Coaching will help of course but to mock the 'genetics' stuff because of your obsession with coaching is a bit misguided. Don't take this the wrong way but have you got a lot of balls and cones? plenty of umbro?
Redknapp isn't a tactician, players have admitted in the past he doesn't talk to them at all about tactics, they are told 5 mins before they head out who they will be picking up at corners. He is however a good man manager (as much as it pains me to say it, although clearly just didn't like Bent).
At International level you need more than just pace, teams like Inter were undone because they just aren't good enough to cope with pace. At international level the top defenders can deal with that and they have managers good enough to employ tactics to stop it.
Would like to see Mark Hughes offered the job myself.
Wouldn't want to see Redknapp put under that much pressure at his age, it would do him no good.
Badges don't win competitions, or make you a good Coach. The culture chage needed in England to chage attitudes won't happen for generations. There is optimism on here that we could beat some of the better nations........we can't and we don't......our national team has been going further and further downhill.
Redknapp isn't a tactician, players have admitted in the past he doesn't talk to them at all about tactics, they are told 5 mins before they head out who they will be picking up at corners. He is however a good man manager (as much as it pains me to say it, although clearly just didn't like Bent).
At International level you need more than just pace, teams like Inter were undone because they just aren't good enough to cope with pace. At international level the top defenders can deal with that and they have managers good enough to employ tactics to stop it.
Would like to see Mark Hughes offered the job myself.
Wouldn't want to see Redknapp put under that much pressure at his age, it would do him no good.
Or Neil Warnock. He would lay it out straight. Lampard, you fat Jesse, sort it out. Terry, you cheating scumbag, concentrate! ETC....they need to be brought down a peg or two
Give it to Redknapp. There's no till for him to get his hands into and he has proved himself time and again that he can get teams playing and to be fair, Spurs did well in the Champions League and had a tight defence. He's also got a vast amount of experience of English players, plays attacking football and would clearly love the job. Why go anywhere else?
It would be as close as we could get to Spain's tic-tac, getting Harry's tic on board. After 90 minutes of an intense qualifier his head could fall off.
Mourinho would only make us less popular with the 'family', than we already are. Never good to have a wind up merchant in charge when everyone already hates you.
Murdoch do you honestly believe we would be a match for a team like the Dutch? They have been the form team since the World Cup, 8 wins, 2 draws and a hell of a lot of goals. And have been playing some decent stuff. Probably not ideal to compare us to them since they (arguably) overacheived at the WC so lets take another side that have, like us, underacheived in recent years.
Italy have transformed the way they have played recently under Prandelli, take the match against Estonia on Friday, they won 3-0, 82% possession, 17 shots and I think I saw a stat on twitter saying they made 839 passes. I know you will argue it's only Estonia but can you see England dominating like that against any side? I think over the past few years that has happened on very few occasions and at international level that is the way you have to play, possession is king and our players/domestic leagues are not conducive for that.
I don't think we could match the Dutch or Italians with the team we put out on Saturday.
I must say they are incredible stats for Italy. Didn't know that cheers.
If we had our first choice team out we would give the Dutch a game. If the Italians are back to there most depressing best we would always struggle against that style, you couldn't really say until you've seem them up against a better side. Would be an amazing turn around for them if they had.
Are you there Murdoch? Italy are losing 1-0 to Ireland on the box at the moment. It is raining though so i don't think you can blame the coaching.
I watched the Lloyds Team (made up of brokers and underwriters) play one of the Singaporean league sides the other day.
The singaporeans kept the ball at the back and mindfield for about 20 mins and baiscally ran the lloyds team into the ground before comfortably winning 2-0.
Admitedly the heat and humidity had a lot to do with it, but the technique displayed by many of the asians is miles ahead of british players due to good coaching, relying on skill over physical attributes.
The problem with the english team is that it seems once you get in and you are part of the clique you cannot be dropped. This is what needs to change.
We should have taken this Euro qualification and the subsquent WC qualifiaction to blood a whole new team aimed at winning the Next WC.
No pressure qualifying for Euros just identify the best young players under 25, by the time the WC came around they would be reaching their peak.
The problem is the gulf in performance between many players at club level and then in international games that really matter.
If you watch the best of Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney et al during the season at their clubs they often play like world- beaters and often look like they could walk into most teams in the world the way they can influence a game with moments of sheer brilliance. It is hard then to freeze them out because of this potential but then so frustrating when they cant seem to do it with the 3 lions on their chests.
The problem is the gulf in performance between many players at club level and then in international games that really matter.
If you watch the best of Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney et al during the season at their clubs they often play like world- beaters and often look like they could walk into most teams in the world the way they can influence a game with moments of sheer brilliance. It is hard then to freeze them out because of this potential but then so frustrating when they cant seem to do it with the 3 lions on their chests.
I watched the Lloyds Team (made up of brokers and underwriters) play one of the Singaporean league sides the other day.
The singaporeans kept the ball at the back and mindfield for about 20 mins and baiscally ran the lloyds team into the ground before comfortably winning 2-0.
Admitedly the heat and humidity had a lot to do with it, but the technique displayed by many of the asians is miles ahead of british players due to good coaching, relying on skill over physical attributes.
The problem with the english team is that it seems once you get in and you are part of the clique you cannot be dropped. This is what needs to change.
We should have taken this Euro qualification and the subsquent WC qualifiaction to blood a whole new team aimed at winning the Next WC.
No pressure qualifying for Euros just identify the best young players under 25, by the time the WC came around they would be reaching their peak.
Insurance-men?? Playing away in Singapore?? Are you sure?? Walking down the street in Singapore I was left drenched in sweat feeling faint. Asians are better than British?? Don't take any competetive tornaments seriously unless we are dead certs to win??? Ha ha!!
Everyone raved about the coaching techniques the French adopted, 'follow the French model'. Whenever Zidane was injured they struggled. When he retired they fell to pieces. It's not all about coaching.
The problem is the gulf in performance between many players at club level and then in international games that really matter.
If you watch the best of Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney et al during the season at their clubs they often play like world- beaters and often look like they could walk into most teams in the world the way they can influence a game with moments of sheer brilliance. It is hard then to freeze them out because of this potential but then so frustrating when they cant seem to do it with the 3 lions on their chests.
because they play at club level with players who have the missing ingredient we don't have in the england team - players with craft, guile and skill. We have lots of similar types of good players but not the other type. Scholes and Gasgoine are the only 2 who have got anywhere near it in the last 25 years and as for our forwards - worst bunch in my lifetime.
I watched the Lloyds Team (made up of brokers and underwriters) play one of the Singaporean league sides the other day.
The singaporeans kept the ball at the back and mindfield for about 20 mins and baiscally ran the lloyds team into the ground before comfortably winning 2-0.
Admitedly the heat and humidity had a lot to do with it, but the technique displayed by many of the asians is miles ahead of british players due to good coaching, relying on skill over physical attributes.
The problem with the english team is that it seems once you get in and you are part of the clique you cannot be dropped. This is what needs to change.
We should have taken this Euro qualification and the subsquent WC qualifiaction to blood a whole new team aimed at winning the Next WC.
No pressure qualifying for Euros just identify the best young players under 25, by the time the WC came around they would be reaching their peak.
Insurance-men?? Playing away in Singapore?? Are you sure?? Walking down the street in Singapore I was left drenched in sweat feeling faint. Asians are better than British?? Don't take any competetive tornaments seriously unless we are dead certs to win??? Ha ha!!
Everyone raved about the coaching techniques the French adopted, 'follow the French model'. Whenever Zidane was injured they struggled. When he retired they fell to pieces. It's not all about coaching.
spot on Murdoch - the playmaker in a ny team is the most important - haven't had one for years at Charlton and look at us now. Funny - because the same people that are bemoaning the loss of Semedo are also whining that we don't have enough 'technique' in the English game.
For Lampard and Gerrard, they've had players round them who have made them look good, be it Makele, Essien or Alonso, they've done the dirty work which allowed both them to run around like headless chickens, which they can get away with in the Premiership.
As for Rooney, he's consistently performed for England, with the exception of the last world cup
Chelsea stopped being so effective after they lost Robben and when Joe Cole and Benayoun were injured they were very stodgy and couldn't break teams down.
Alonso pulled the strings for Liverpool - correct.
Rooney's a good player but can't take people on and not a great finisher - he's a nr.10 but doesn't have any top draw number 9's to play with or any real craft in the midfield to link up with.
Comments
You still havent named a reason. I mean, why dont the Arabs just eat chorizo and breed with Brazilians?. Total tosh
95% genetics 5% coaching. Great stuff. Keep it up!
Italy have transformed the way they have played recently under Prandelli, take the match against Estonia on Friday, they won 3-0, 82% possession, 17 shots and I think I saw a stat on twitter saying they made 839 passes. I know you will argue it's only Estonia but can you see England dominating like that against any side? I think over the past few years that has happened on very few occasions and at international level that is the way you have to play, possession is king and our players/domestic leagues are not conducive for that.
I don't think we could match the Dutch or Italians with the team we put out on Saturday.
I must say they are incredible stats for Italy. Didn't know that cheers.
If we had our first choice team out we would give the Dutch a game. If the Italians are back to there most depressing best we would always struggle against that style, you couldn't really say until you've seem them up against a better side. Would be an amazing turn around for them if they had.
we try to play at an international pace but dont keep the ball for long enough and try to patiently carve teams open. we make a few passes and then go direct....which if your going to do, the pace has to be how it is at domestic level. this is where i believe redknapp would come in useful. he took tottenham into europe and made then play in exactly the same fashion to which they do in the prem...it took teams like Inter by suprise. Would like to see England do that.
The culture chage needed in England to chage attitudes won't happen for generations.
There is optimism on here that we could beat some of the better nations........we can't and we don't......our national team has been going further and further downhill.
Agreed.
Or Neil Warnock. He would lay it out straight. Lampard, you fat Jesse, sort it out. Terry, you cheating scumbag, concentrate! ETC....they need to be brought down a peg or two
2 points based on the thread.
I watched the Lloyds Team (made up of brokers and underwriters) play one of the Singaporean league sides the other day.
The singaporeans kept the ball at the back and mindfield for about 20 mins and baiscally ran the lloyds team into the ground before comfortably winning 2-0.
Admitedly the heat and humidity had a lot to do with it, but the technique displayed by many of the asians is miles ahead of british players due to good coaching, relying on skill over physical attributes.
The problem with the english team is that it seems once you get in and you are part of the clique you cannot be dropped. This is what needs to change.
We should have taken this Euro qualification and the subsquent WC qualifiaction to blood a whole new team aimed at winning the Next WC.
No pressure qualifying for Euros just identify the best young players under 25, by the time the WC came around they would be reaching their peak.
The problem is the gulf in performance between many players at club level and then in international games that really matter.
If you watch the best of Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney et al during the season at their clubs they often play like world- beaters and often look like they could walk into most teams in the world the way they can influence a game with moments of sheer brilliance. It is hard then to freeze them out because of this potential but then so frustrating when they cant seem to do it with the 3 lions on their chests.
As for Rooney, he's consistently performed for England, with the exception of the last world cup
Chelsea stopped being so effective after they lost Robben and when Joe Cole and Benayoun were injured they were very stodgy and couldn't break teams down.
Alonso pulled the strings for Liverpool - correct.
Rooney's a good player but can't take people on and not a great finisher - he's a nr.10 but doesn't have any top draw number 9's to play with or any real craft in the midfield to link up with.