Where do we go from here?

lancashire lad

Having watched the defeat at Walsall I feel very negative about the future of CAFC.

OK I know we didn't have anything to play for and Walsall did, I know that the wind made it difficult but Walsall coped with it. I know that it is the end of season and there is money in the coffers

BUT

When CP took over he had a team that for the majority of the time in L1 had been in the top six, since taking over, or just prior,  the team has been improved by a number of loan signings and the purchase of BWP and we languish in mid table mediocrity with Walsall having done the double over us. I do not advocate the rehire of Parkey or the return of Curbs but I do not have faith in our current management team:

Keith Peacock - lovely guy and Charlton legend but has not really shone as a club manager.

Chris Powell - a lovely guy and Charlton legend who did well as a coach at Leicester, but a coach isn't a manager.

Alex Dyer - an ex Charlton player who has no experience of coaching at 1st team level

These are the people that are managing our team, how do they compare to the managers of Norwich, Leeds, Millwall, Brighton, Southampton or Huddersfield which are teams that have, or might be, successful in gaining promotion from L1. With the exception of Gus Poyet the others all have more managerial experience so we have to hope that CP can do a GP, but can he, from what I saw at Walsall the answer is no, what I saw on Saturday was;

Goalkeeper - couldn't kick the ball and didn't have the nous to roll it our to his defenders to take forward, also Walsall's 'keeper whilst having difficulties with the windy conditions did a lot better.

Defence - poor as usual, how many clean sheets have they kept as opposed to Southampton who have kept about 17

Midfield - 2 loanees who will disappear after next week, Stewart who must have been confused as he passed to red shirts more than blue and Racon playing out of position but playing well.

Attack - Benson missed an openish goal at the beginning of the game, OK it hit the post but it still missed the goal, he does give 110% but he got little help from BWP who has gone from one of the division's top scorers to someone who just wasn't interested.

These are the people to whom we entrust the management of our team, the purchase of new players and retention of the best of the current lot so that we mount a promotion challenge next season - I don't think so.

Finally I know I don't get to see many games and have based this critique on away games at Rochdale & Walsall but if we are to succeed next season these are the games that we have to win.

Being a legend and lovely isn't enough

Please tell me how I am wrong!

creepyaddick

The home game against Rochdale looked a lot better than recent performances so going on that, hopefully with a few new faces we can turn it around

creepyaddick

I think Poyet had more experience, as I heard from several places it was him and not Wise who was the driving force at both Swindon & Leeds, topped up with a bit of premiership at Spurs

BlackForestReds

Regarding CP - he was second choice after Eddie Howe, and he chose to stay put rather than go to Charlton for more money and a supposedly better opportunity. Ok he decamped a few days after that for the bright lights of Burnley, but that illustrates how difficult it is to attract experienced managers to this division. He realised that better offers would come his way, so good managers are going to consider career prospects when managing teams in L1, and most of those that have done well - Lambert, Poyet etc have been inexperienced when managing teams in this division. So I don't see why CP shouldn't be successful as well - but he's got to stamp his authority on the team and make it identifiably his.

Where we go from here depends on how much the new owners have to spend - the last few seasons we have scrambled around acquiring players either cheaply, or on free transfers and chucked a few loans in here and there and the rest of the team has been made up of reserve team players stepping up and making the grade. That's hardly a recipe for success. We need a decent long term plan that drafts in a few players who will dominate the division and that means our new owners are going to have to start spending. This is as much a test of their credibility and ambition as it is of CP's fitness and ability to manage.

If they lack the ambition and don't spend then we are going to know soon and we'll get to spend the close season debating the merits of players who are out of contract elsewhere or maybe stepping up from L2 or non-league. The make do and mend philosophy that has governed player transfers has to end if we are going to make a serious push for promotion next year.

 

 

 

 

LargeAddick

I think we may be surprised on how much we do spend. Just got to hope that CP spends it wisely.

ShootersHillGuru

Any reason to suppose that Large ?

Scoham

You might turn out to be right, but I don't think we can judge what he might do next season based on his time so far.

Just bringing in 3 or 4 quality players could make a huge difference. A solid keeper and centre back, a hard working but creative midfielder and a good partner for BWP would make this team much better. We should at least be able to sign better players than we can afford last summer.

Replace Powell and it's an even bigger job for the new manager. Powell's had half a season to get to know the squad and make changes on and off the pitch. Also makes the job even less attractive if managers know they could lose their job within 6 months.

You say the defence was as poor as usual, how much did Southampton's cost compared to ours? In midfield he's clearly attempted to improve the quality and types of players we have in there. Up front it seems to be the best partnership with what we have. The summer is a much better time to improve the squad.

I'm not saying Powell definitely will do a good job, I'd just like to see him given a decent amount of time. It goes back to the question when Parky was here - what manager out there almost guarantees an improvement over the manager we already have?

BigRedEvil

Said a few weeks ago after the Hartlepool game he's have been in charge for 23 league games, and I would have hoped we would've got a few wins out of Rochdale/Bristol/Walsall/Oldham/Huddersfield/Hartlepool.

We have one win, another one which would've been apart from 2 sendings off...Oldham we played the whole game pretty much with 10 men, and beaten by a late goal by a side unbeaten in 20 odd games going for promotion. Not sure about how we did vs Walsall, but that's 5 points from a possible 15 since the Southampton game, we've been playing better but seeing as half of them won't be here after Saturday it's difficult to read that much into it and some sendings off haven't helped, but it still is relegation form...under Powell we stand at 6 wins from 22 league games...I suppose we have to back him with money but I fear if he doesn't start well he will be out the door within a few weeks next season. These guys in charge shown they can be ruthless in sacking Parky so they'll do it again....

Marriott110

i have an undying love for CP, but he was hurt a little by the whole of Parky's staff leaving. these player's knew the Parky way of long ball and rush to support the strikers with big 'target men' like Pawel Sodje burton etc. but Powell want's football and he's no doubt had a hard task trying to get alan mcormack to play good attacking football, i feel were more on the up with cp's reputation to get us higher standard players i mean i really doubt if bwp would of joined phil parkinson's Charlton im judging chris Powell on who he's bringing in over the summer and who he's got in now. - Sullivan Bessone stewart Parrett bwp. all of these are good enough for this league imo, 

it's the only summer i've felt confident, i don't feel were going to lose our best players. and we can spend a little bit. so hopefully with chris powell's team then we will only move forward. only lambert worked miracles without his own squad last year. give the man time.

Saga Lout

If the money is there, I feel there has to be a more determined approach by our board and management - if they decide on certain players they should do everything to secure them, not accept that they will snub us for a "better offer". The board has ambitions - it should be made clear to the players we want to bring in that there is no better offer in League 1 and it should be stressed that the club will not be in League 1 past the end of next season- enabling players to achieve their career goals with Charlton will be key in attracting the players we want.

MrOneLung

Down to the lake, I fear.

razil

I'm not against offering financially better contracts than the competition, but these should be only be high rewards for achievements

MrLargo

Marriott110 4:23AM

..... .but Powell wants football and he's no doubt had a hard task trying to get alan mcormack to play good attacking football....

You are very right, but it is worth noting that the board also "wants football" and this was one of the reasons for getting rid of Parky, and something Powell was instructed to introduce on his appointment. I think it's a great shame that CP seems to have already lost the goodwill of some supporters - all I have learnt from his reign so far is that the players Parky brought in (under severe financial constraints) were not capable of playing attractive football, which I don't think is any reflection on CP's managerial ability. After a miserable few weeks between the Posh and Saints home games, I have seen significant signs of improvement in recent weeks, in terms of performance level if not results, following the arrival of Parrett and Stewart.

I am genuinely confident that a reasonable level of expenditure in the summer will see us challenging at the right end of the table next season, playing exciting football in the process.

Marriott110

i never thought he (Parky) was the right man, but due to our constraints we had to go for him. i respect him for carrying the club and almost returning us to the championship with no money. just hope chris powell will lead us. it'd be understood if faith was lost. but history shows that majority of big teams get out of the pit of league 1 on the 3rd try. 

AFKABartram

@Marriott110 - nice posts, welcome to the site.

Don't disagree with too much you say. I do have a nagging doubt that he is simply not going to be adaptable enough to the requirements of third division football, and i'm nervous that this so called belief there will be a fair bit of investment this summer will either lead to disappointment if it does not emerge, or more worryingly, wasted on the wrong type of player to what are our short-term requirements. As previously noted, Sheff W pushed the boat out a bit last summer, and it never worked for them.

Marriott110

@afkabartram thanks, 

but i think chris powell will spend wisely ( or at least i hope!) i think he knows what we need and he'll go get it. 

cp's said money will be spent

slater said money will be spent 

i just hope we'll take some risks like norwich did with holt etc and they got to the big time. although they have a really good manager imo. 

harveys_gardener

When the board decided Parky could not improve the club, they looked at alternatives.  In our division Poyet, Clark  and Adkins were at equivalent size clubs so out of reach.  I think they rightly looked at Howe and Tisdale, I'm not sure why the latter wasn't in the frame but we know the Howe story.  Otherwise there were few candidates and of those unattached most had at least one failure on their c.v. so we next looked at young coaches.  I'm sure anyone compiling a shortlist from promising assistants would have Chris Powell near the top and he was rightly chosen.  I'd have chosen an experienced No 2, but CP has his own man so only time will tell.  I only hope any money spend will be on players under 28.

oldbloke

Good Point HG, We need to start buying players between 23-28 who have a few years in them and some ambition not people making a buck before retirement.

DRF

"Wanting footbal" is the same as "demanding passion" A totally meaningless phrase thrown out by those who want to appeal to the fans, whilst not actually committing to anything that can be evaluated.

charltonbob

Lanc Lad I wouldn't worry about making a judgement from 2 games, in fact be grateful you haven't sat through the rubbish of a full season. What happens in the summer money wise? well not too many people have the faintest but I for one am not at all confident that CP will spend it wisely. Look at his loans, Bessone, is he any better than any other full back in the division ? Very average, Stewart (trial) & Parrot ? just alternatives to what we have but are they any better definately not. Ecclestone ? the best loan we've got but Powell wouldn't play him until the last couple of games of the season, whats that all about ???? He's going back to Liverpool & we start playing him now !!! bizarre!  Nouble ?  Powell claims that he's been fantastic for us, that quote alone is a good enough reason for CP to be relieved of his duties. I always was against his appointment because of inexperience but as somebody else has mentioned, with an experienced man alongside him it could of made a difference, instead we got Alex Dyer.

Chris Powell is Charlton through & through & a great ex player........this doesn't make him managerial material. Ok we took a chance fair enough but it hasnt worked out, do we have to wait another year for the board to realise this ?

Anyone who trots out the old "it isn't his team, let him buy x amount of players" are living in cloud cuckoo land. If he can't manage then he can't manage!    

ShootersHillGuru

Charltonbob. Not sure I can agree with your assessment of Powells signings loan or otherwise. BWP is a Powell signing. Better than what we had ....you bet. Stewart and Parrett well again I would suggest both are of a standard above what we had. I do agree Eccleston was not perhaps used effectively but that's just our opinion. Bessone is / was better than Fry so all in all I find your post going against the evidence. Just my opinion of course.

MuttleyCAFC

The Walsall result was disapointing but as others have said, we expect to see a radically different Charlton team starting next season. Usually, the summer period gives you a few months to relax and not worry about football, but I think this summer is so important it could be quite a tense time. Basically we will know from the activity over the period whether we are going to be super strong, strong or same old same old. I think all of these are possible.

 

Withe every good signing our confidence will grow. If we lose our better players and struggle to bring in the players we want, we are going to get frustrated. As for Powell, I not going to claim he is the best manager we could have- he clearly is still learning his trade. But if he gets the players he needs I don't think it is going to be rocket science to put out a strong competetive side. The only way I can see that this will happen is if we more than compete financially - I would feel less confident that he can wheel and deal as well as Parky if he isn't backed.

 

So it comes down to money as it usually does in football.

ShootersHillGuru

Agree that the signings made will be crucial to any success next season but in terms of backing the manager I also think that the timing of any signings is going to be important. If we are prepared to do our business early so that any or at least most of the new squad are in place for the majority of pre season then I think we stand a better chance of hitting the ground running. For financial reasons we have not been able to do this in recent seasons and the ability of the team to gel has been a significant factor. I also believe that getting players in late is the worst case scenario as they do not get a proper pre season and it's widely felt players that don't get that are often more prone to injury. I fully understand that some targets will have many irons in the fire and this may prolong negotiations and options but I really do hope that this is the only reason that we get players in late on rather than trying to save a few weeks wages which if the case would speak to our real financial clout. Most fascinating close season for years in store I think. I hope it comes out with more answers than questions.

kings hill addick

If we are banking on loan signings rom teams in the Premier League then we have to exoect them to come in late. The Prem teams will not want to release anyone until they have a good idea of what they are going to have by the close of the window. Also I suspect they will want to send them to Championship clubs if they can as they will play against better players most weeks.

I do think we need a couple of exciting signings before the end of June though as they will need to cinvince the 3,000 or so season ticket holders that haven't renewed yet that they mean business.

Time will tell.

MuttleyCAFC

Agree, the loans will come in a bit later but the sooner the signings (and that includes the current players we keep hold of) are completed the better as far as I'm concerned. I rememeber last season that we went in to pre season last season with question marks whether we could put out a team there were so many gaps. We did start the season reasonably well but if this was the case in the summer I would certainly feel disheartened.

Michael Slater did make us a promise that there will be investment in the team and until there is evidence to the contrary, I am happy to take him at his word. 

harveys_gardener

If we are banking on loan signings from teams in the Premier League then we have to exoect them to come in late. The Prem teams will not want to release anyone until they have a good idea of what they are going to have by the close of the window.

As far as permanent signing go, I think Vetere and Slater should be saying "this is our offer - it's on the table until 30th June only" otherwise we will release half our squad and have potential targets conducting dutch auctions for their service right up to deadline day.

 

charltonbob

Vetere ?  Is he actually part of our club ? I've heard nothing but rumours so far ?

ken from bexley

Have to agree with the comments about getting in players early, last seasons pre-seasons were a wasted opportunity. Players drafted in days before KO, no wonder the strikers looked bemused!

Powell in his latest email to fans claims"When we come back in June, everything will be done the way I want it," he said on Friday. "You can implement plenty of things within your squad from the first day of pre-season. he goes on " "I've earmarked a few signings, but obviously you have to get them over the finishing line and that is no small feat. We're well under way in that process - it won't happen straight away, but we'll get there."

Of course talk is cheap!. Let's see the "significant investment", in the next few weeks..., to give CP the tools to do the job! 

BigRedEvil

Good to see CP with that comment saying the process of signing players is well under way, alot different from the past few years.

dylanthedog

Agree with Charltonbob.

Also loaning Sullivan seemed only to benefit Millwall, and deprive Worner of experience.

Covered End

Disagree. Sullivan has been released by Millwall so I can't see any great benefit for them. other than not paying his wages whilst with us.

Worner looks to be on his way to Aldershot, so if we had decided we weren't keeping him, then there was no point playing him. Made more sense to play Sullivan to see if we may want to pick him up on a free.