I've been thinking about what has happened - and my theory for what its worth is that for the first few games Chrissy Powell worked on motivation and trying to improve the manner in which the team played football and this produced some results. But then he recognised that the main problem of many players not performing to their ability had to be tackled - and I suspect that this involved being fairly brutal with some players and telling them what their deficiencies were and what they had to do to tackle them. The result is that this has confused some players and others have gone off in a sulk (and there certainly a few players who have gone somewhat cold on Chrissy) - and hence the current situation. That said I don't think it was before time - for too long we have had a bunch of players who have been performing way below their best (and certainly below their pay grade - as in both League 2 and 3 we have been top payers) and seem to make no noticeable progress in addressing their deficiencies. That we have had managers who have allowed this state of affairs to carry on for too long is to their detriment not Chrissy Powell's - and if he is telling them in private to shape up or ship out he is doing absolutely the right thing.
"GH that was a while ago Airman said that and he is head of communications and a politician."
Haven't been "head of communications" since 2003 . . .
Anyway, I was really talking about the atmosphere at The Valley. Of course the supporters on the staff are flattened by the results like everyone else, but it would have been unimaginably worse without the takeover because nobody could see a way forward for the club regardless of how the team was doing.
[cite]Posted By: sm[/cite]I've been thinking about what has happened - and my theory for what its worth is that for the first few games Chrissy Powell worked on motivation and trying to improve the manner in which the team played football and this produced some results. But then he recognised that the main problem of many players not performing to their ability had to be tackled - and I suspect that this involved being fairly brutal with some players and telling them what their deficiencies were and what they had to do to tackle them. The result is that this has confused some players and others have gone off in a sulk (and there certainly a few players who have gone somewhat cold on Chrissy) - and hence the current situation. That said I don't think it was before time - for too long we have had a bunch of players who have been performing way below their best (and certainly below their pay grade - as in both League 2 and 3 we have been top payers) and seem to make no noticeable progress in addressing their deficiencies. That we have had managers who have allowed this state of affairs to carry on for too long is to their detriment not Chrissy Powell's - and if he is telling them in private to shape up or ship out he is doing absolutely the right thing.
I think you raise some good points, the players have not performed to their best since Curbs left, simple as and if he's told them that then that's fine. Personally, if he doesn't change things around and we win at least a couple and play well for the rest of the season then he hast to go. You can't stay if the team has gone from playoffs to being 12 points short and freefalling down the table. I know he's a new manager but our current form is relegation form and that's not good enough, if it picks up give him a chance and really support him and give him full backing for next season and see what happens, but only if things improve.
The board either have to "back him or sack him" - it's no good being half-hearted about it. As hardened businessmen, I shouldn't think our board will have a problem with that. Rightly or wrongly, they certainly shipped PP out quick enough.
Investing in a football club should only be done with money you can afford to lose. Assuming a Euromillions win on Friday (it could happen!) would I be prepared to take that gamble? I don't know - after the last series of results it's looking like a huge gamble.
I agree that it is a results business (as is any business for that matter) but before making your judgement as to whether Powell's management is likely to be effective or not I'd want to know a lot more about what is going on within the team (and quite frankly we don't know enough) . If for example he has a number of obstructive employees, as may well be the case, it would only be fair to judge the manager when said employees are out of the way. In the commercial world no one sensible would expect such situations, which have been allowed to fester for years, to be turned around in a matter of weeks. For obvious reasons this is not a matter on which the Board and/or Chrissy could be expected to go public - you just don't get into a slanging match with employees. Chrissy regularly states that he was employed on the basis of a specific strategy - the Board has to give him the chance to implement it.
Perhaps it is worth remembering that Leeds United sacked Brian Clough after 42 days after a string of bad results, under pressure from the fans, and resistance from the team while he was trying to change the way they played and ship out dead wood. Given what Clough subsequently achieved (and Leeds didn't for that matter) was that a smart management move??
[cite]Posted By: sm[/cite]......Leeds United sacked Brian Clough after 42 days after a string of bad results, under pressure from the fans, and resistance from the team while he was trying to change the way they played and ship out dead wood
Pressure from the fans, etc?
There you have it, folks .....Chris Powell could be the new Brian Clough.
But don't tell CP.
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: sm[/cite]......Leeds United sacked Brian Clough after 42 days after a string of bad results, under pressure from the fans, and resistance from the team while he was trying to change the way they played and ship out dead wood
Pressure from the fans, etc?
There you have it, folks .....Chris Powell could be the new Brian Clough.
But don't tell CP.
;o)
The new Brian Clough, More chance of being like Ida Clough :-) That's for you old school Corrie fans.
[cite]Posted By: CH4RLTON[/cite]I can't understand how we went from Eddie Howe 1st Choice to Chris Powell 2nd choice. Yes they are both "young" managers but that is where is similarities end. Surely there was solid criteria set from the board that needed to be met. All in all it was a bad choice most 'legend appointments' are. I do disagree with the “experienced manager” point to a certain extent though and I agree that we needed to bring someone in a with a long term strategy, just think Powell was not right man to do that given he has never managed a club before.
Regards,
Eddie Howe was as inexperienced in management as CP when he took over at Bournemouth, where he was a legend with 250+ games behind him for the Cherries. Based on your notion that you shouldn't appoint an inexperienced young manager, what a dumb mistake Bournemouth took in hiring him.
[cite]Posted By: sm[/cite]I agree that it is a results business (as is any business for that matter) but before making your judgement as to whether Powell's management is likely to be effective or not I'd want to know a lot more about what is going on within the team (and quite frankly we don't know enough) . If for example he has a number of obstructive employees, as may well be the case, it would only be fair to judge the manager when said employees are out of the way. In the commercial world no one sensible would expect such situations, which have been allowed to fester for years, to be turned around in a matter of weeks. For obvious reasons this is not a matter on which the Board and/or Chrissy could be expected to go public - you just don't get into a slanging match with employees. Chrissy regularly states that he was employed on the basis of a specific strategy - the Board has to give him the chance to implement it.
that's far too sophisticated an argument for the fire him now brigade (and CL is in no way the worst for that kind of sentiment)............
[cite]Posted By: rikofold[/cite]What Grumpy and Oggy said.
In terms of giving Powell money, outside of the transfer window I'd say he's shown considerable more shrewdness in the loan market than Parky ever did. To a man the players Powell's brought in have improved the squad and can play football. Says to me the man can spot a player, and will get the right ones even in a limited market. Couple it with his evident vision of how he wants to play, open the transfer market and I think we'll see a very different Charlton side next year.
That's the biggest load of bollocks I have ever read on here - and that is quite some achievement given some of the drivel posted on CL over the years.
How can any rational person claim that Powell's loans/signings have been better than Parkinson's?
The players that Powell brought in have lost 8 out of the last 11 games - how does that demonstrate a shrewd policy or even a smidgeon of vision?
Professional football is about winning, sorry to bring that up, and if you are not winning for 11 games in a row then you are obviously not doing the job you were brought in for.
You can't argue with BWP but FFS none of Powell's other loanees have even been on the winning side yet (apart from Bessone, once) - so how can they possibly be viewed as a success? They can't.
By contrast Parky brought in some very, very decent loans to the club, Borrowdale was excellent last season and in comparison to Frank Nouble you would have to say that Lee Martin is like Lionel Messi.
This evisceration of Parkinson by some people drives me up the bloody wall, the bloke left us in 5th in the L1 table and two points off the autos, we are now 13th and 20 points off the autos, his sacking was quite obviously a crazy, knee-jerk move by the board.
As I have said elsewhere, this promise of "jam tomorrow" by the board and Powell is a very high-risk move because by around late September "tomorrow" is going to arrive.
Love to understand the thinking of those who read the opening post and think "I know, I'll reply talking about Parky !"
In reply to the opening question, at the moment no I wouldn't. But then again I personally doubt Powell will have much input on what players the club brings in. I'm not convinced BWP was done to CP.
The question is more likely to be are the club comfortable with CP coaching the players and formulating a winning mentality ? At the moment, the answer to that is also no.
[cite]Posted By: rikofold[/cite]What Grumpy and Oggy said.
In terms of giving Powell money, outside of the transfer window I'd say he's shown considerable more shrewdness in the loan market than Parky ever did. To a man the players Powell's brought in have improved the squad and can play football. Says to me the man can spot a player, and will get the right ones even in a limited market. Couple it with his evident vision of how he wants to play, open the transfer market and I think we'll see a very different Charlton side next year.
That's the biggest load of bollocks I have ever read on here - and that is quite some achievement given some of the drivel posted on CL over the years.
How can any rational person claim that Powell's loans/signings have been better than Parkinson's?
The players that Powell brought in have lost 8 out of the last 11 games - how does that demonstrate a shrewd policy or even a smidgeon of vision?
Professional football is about winning, sorry to bring that up, and if you are not winning for 11 games in a row then you are obviously not doing the job you were brought in for.
You can't argue with BWP but FFS none of Powell's other loanees have even been on the winning side yet (apart from Bessone, once) - so how can they possibly be viewed as a success? They can't.
By contrast Parky brought in some very, very decent loans to the club, Borrowdale was excellent last season and in comparison to Frank Nouble you would have to say that Lee Martin is like Lionel Messi.
This evisceration of Parkinson by some people drives me up the bloody wall, the bloke left us in 5th in the L1 table and two points off the autos, we are now 13th and 20 points off the autos, his sacking was quite obviously a crazy, knee-jerk move by the board.
As I have said elsewhere, this promise of "jam tomorrow" by the board and Powell is a very high-risk move because by around late September "tomorrow" is going to arrive.
All i want for my team is for us to WIN.I don't care if the manager is a Charlton legend, played 500 games for Palace or is horrible to his Mum. I also don't care if we WIN by playing like Stoke City or we scrape a 1-0 after being outplayed for 89 minutes. I just want us to WIN a few more games this season. I am not like Grumpy a draw, playing well is not as good as a WIN playing badly. Can't believe some of the posts on here. Some of you are so protective of Powell it is incredible. Still believe that Powell needs time to turn it around, but lets just judge him as we would any Charlton Manager,forget he used to play for us.
DP you forget that who ever is our manager has to the "right type". Denise Wise wasnt-----PDC wasnt. Even players like Bowyer----arnt.
i (like you) now dont give a arts arse what the guy has or hasnt done ENOUGH of the "right Charlton type" ---------------that actually means a LOSER over the last 6 seasons.
Winners dont have to be knobheads but we just dont have the time / money to hold some "moral" objection to who gets us out ofthis God awful division.
CP may still do it --------MAY. This is our worst EVER run at this low level, and im not sure that i want to risk our future with the money going to CP to spend.
Since Curbs, after every manager leaves it's got worse, Dowie, Reed, Pardew and Parky it's got worse after they've gone.
There's a great episode in Seinfeld where George does the opposite of his every instinct.
Get off CP's back, give the bloke a chance and let him build a team, we haven't had one of those for a while. Come on Slater have some nuts and do the opposite of what everyone expects you to do.
As it stands now the board would be taking a massive gamble giving CP funds to build a winning team, because right now this feels like the Les Reed scenario all over again... Another great Charlton man who was many things, but never a manager...
If some fans think CP has brought in better players/loans than Parky, then why are we on this awful run? I've no doubt Parky had a tighter budget with the wages he could offer, so unfair to even compare them on what players they've brought in...
It's not about being pro Powell or pro Parky, but all those fans who wanted Parky out, and are now saying CP should be given time, do come across as very over protecting... How much of the "time argument" did Dowie, Reed, or Parky get? Where was the hope for stability then?
As with all our managers I want this appointment to work, if it doesn't our recent history proves we'll take a step back again...
The board chose to appoint a novice, and if they weren't prepared to give him time to learn a job he has no experience in, then they're the ones we should be questioning...
[cite]Posted By: joeaddick[/cite]As it stands now the board would be taking a massive gamble giving CP funds to build a winning team, because right now this feels like the Les Reed scenario all over again... Another great Charlton man who was many things, but never a manager...
It's a massive gamble whatever they do. Megson's an experienced manager but no guarantee he'll turn things around at Sheff Wed. Powell will have at least had half a season to learn about the current squad, a new manager won't have much/any time (remember Dowie, came in and let reliable players like Perry go because he thought he could sign better)
[cite]Posted By: D_F_T[/cite]Oggy Red,If we'd have offered Howe a deal he couldn't refuse, he wouldn't have refused now, would he?
Love your simplistic logic, D_F_T .......... he evidently didn't want to come here. Or Palace.
So he chose Burnley.
I can only guess, of course ......... he left Bournemouth because he was ambitious, and chose Burnley because they had a chance of promotion to the Premier through the playoffs, and to augment the team with that financial cushion of the parachute money?
He said at the time his ambition is to manage in the Premiership, so he saw Burnley as the quickest and likeliest route - and it is in his own hands this year.
I doubt he could just be bought by throwing a bigger salary at him than other clubs.
[cite]Posted By: joeaddick[/cite]The board chose to appoint a novice, and if they weren't prepared to give him time to learn a job he has no experience in, then they're the ones we should be questioning...
Everything the Board has said recently indicates that they will give CP time, Joe.
As far as we know, it's only a segment of supporters who appear to have lost patience with a manager who has been in the job just 2 months.
[cite]Posted By: joeaddick[/cite]The board chose to appoint a novice, and if they weren't prepared to give him time to learn a job he has no experience in, then they're the ones we should be questioning...
Everything the Board has said recently indicates that they will give CP time, Joe.
As far as we know, it's only a segment of supporters who appear to have lost patience with a manager who has been in the job just 2 months.
Oggy They also said they would sit down with Parky and see what he needed, he never got the luxury to use whatever budget was finally available, and got the sack instead...
That ruthlessness, and hearing everything Mr Slater has officially said so far, leaves me thinking he'd have no hesitation in sacking Powell...
Comments
There is no possible way you can say that, speculation. They will back CP for now but things can change quickly (PP).
Haven't been "head of communications" since 2003 . . .
Anyway, I was really talking about the atmosphere at The Valley. Of course the supporters on the staff are flattened by the results like everyone else, but it would have been unimaginably worse without the takeover because nobody could see a way forward for the club regardless of how the team was doing.
I think you raise some good points, the players have not performed to their best since Curbs left, simple as and if he's told them that then that's fine. Personally, if he doesn't change things around and we win at least a couple and play well for the rest of the season then he hast to go. You can't stay if the team has gone from playoffs to being 12 points short and freefalling down the table. I know he's a new manager but our current form is relegation form and that's not good enough, if it picks up give him a chance and really support him and give him full backing for next season and see what happens, but only if things improve.
Investing in a football club should only be done with money you can afford to lose. Assuming a Euromillions win on Friday (it could happen!) would I be prepared to take that gamble? I don't know - after the last series of results it's looking like a huge gamble.
Pressure from the fans, etc?
There you have it, folks .....Chris Powell could be the new Brian Clough.
But don't tell CP.
;o)
The new Brian Clough, More chance of being like Ida Clough :-) That's for you old school Corrie fans.
Eddie Howe was as inexperienced in management as CP when he took over at Bournemouth, where he was a legend with 250+ games behind him for the Cherries. Based on your notion that you shouldn't appoint an inexperienced young manager, what a dumb mistake Bournemouth took in hiring him.
that's far too sophisticated an argument for the fire him now brigade (and CL is in no way the worst for that kind of sentiment)............
That's the biggest load of bollocks I have ever read on here - and that is quite some achievement given some of the drivel posted on CL over the years.
How can any rational person claim that Powell's loans/signings have been better than Parkinson's?
The players that Powell brought in have lost 8 out of the last 11 games - how does that demonstrate a shrewd policy or even a smidgeon of vision?
Professional football is about winning, sorry to bring that up, and if you are not winning for 11 games in a row then you are obviously not doing the job you were brought in for.
You can't argue with BWP but FFS none of Powell's other loanees have even been on the winning side yet (apart from Bessone, once) - so how can they possibly be viewed as a success? They can't.
By contrast Parky brought in some very, very decent loans to the club, Borrowdale was excellent last season and in comparison to Frank Nouble you would have to say that Lee Martin is like Lionel Messi.
This evisceration of Parkinson by some people drives me up the bloody wall, the bloke left us in 5th in the L1 table and two points off the autos, we are now 13th and 20 points off the autos, his sacking was quite obviously a crazy, knee-jerk move by the board.
As I have said elsewhere, this promise of "jam tomorrow" by the board and Powell is a very high-risk move because by around late September "tomorrow" is going to arrive.
In reply to the opening question, at the moment no I wouldn't. But then again I personally doubt Powell will have much input on what players the club brings in. I'm not convinced BWP was done to CP.
The question is more likely to be are the club comfortable with CP coaching the players and formulating a winning mentality ? At the moment, the answer to that is also no.
All i want for my team is for us to WIN.I don't care if the manager is a Charlton legend, played 500 games for Palace or is horrible to his Mum. I also don't care if we WIN by playing like Stoke City or we scrape a 1-0 after being outplayed for 89 minutes. I just want us to WIN a few more games this season. I am not like Grumpy a draw, playing well is not as good as a WIN playing badly. Can't believe some of the posts on here. Some of you are so protective of Powell it is incredible. Still believe that Powell needs time to turn it around, but lets just judge him as we would any Charlton Manager,forget he used to play for us.
i (like you) now dont give a arts arse what the guy has or hasnt done ENOUGH of the "right Charlton type" ---------------that actually means a LOSER over the last 6 seasons.
Winners dont have to be knobheads but we just dont have the time / money to hold some "moral" objection to who gets us out ofthis God awful division.
CP may still do it --------MAY. This is our worst EVER run at this low level, and im not sure that i want to risk our future with the money going to CP to spend.
There's a great episode in Seinfeld where George does the opposite of his every instinct.
Get off CP's back, give the bloke a chance and let him build a team, we haven't had one of those for a while. Come on Slater have some nuts and do the opposite of what everyone expects you to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUvKE3bQlY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzxfivZF9Yk&feature=related
If some fans think CP has brought in better players/loans than Parky, then why are we on this awful run? I've no doubt Parky had a tighter budget with the wages he could offer, so unfair to even compare them on what players they've brought in...
It's not about being pro Powell or pro Parky, but all those fans who wanted Parky out, and are now saying CP should be given time, do come across as very over protecting... How much of the "time argument" did Dowie, Reed, or Parky get? Where was the hope for stability then?
As with all our managers I want this appointment to work, if it doesn't our recent history proves we'll take a step back again...
The board chose to appoint a novice, and if they weren't prepared to give him time to learn a job he has no experience in, then they're the ones we should be questioning...
Chris Powell 11 Games and Counting 2010/2011 League One. 3 Draws, 8 Defeats
Phil Parkinson 10 Games 2008/2009. Championship. 3 Draws, 7 Defeats
Love your simplistic logic, D_F_T .......... he evidently didn't want to come here. Or Palace.
So he chose Burnley.
I can only guess, of course ......... he left Bournemouth because he was ambitious, and chose Burnley because they had a chance of promotion to the Premier through the playoffs, and to augment the team with that financial cushion of the parachute money?
He said at the time his ambition is to manage in the Premiership, so he saw Burnley as the quickest and likeliest route - and it is in his own hands this year.
I doubt he could just be bought by throwing a bigger salary at him than other clubs.
Everything the Board has said recently indicates that they will give CP time, Joe.
As far as we know, it's only a segment of supporters who appear to have lost patience with a manager who has been in the job just 2 months.
Oggy They also said they would sit down with Parky and see what he needed, he never got the luxury to use whatever budget was finally available, and got the sack instead...
That ruthlessness, and hearing everything Mr Slater has officially said so far, leaves me thinking he'd have no hesitation in sacking Powell...