[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]Can't see why we have to get involved - it will end badly as it always does.
It's the drive by the USA (overt and covert), together with their minions, to 'democratise' the Arab/Muslim States and thus make the worl a supposed less dangerous place.
[cite]Posted By: Greenie[/cite]Yes, as hard as it may seem, its none of our business.
Surely as memebers of the UN it is our business? I'd go a step further and say we have a responsibility to go in and help.
I agree. If we were being attacked by our own soldiers/dictator, we would want other countries to come in and help us. I think we have a responsibility to help people in need if we can and I believe this situation needs that help.
[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]Yes, and in fact make it more dangerous instead.
How so?
Should we (the allied nations) sit back and watch as Gadaffi slaughters his citizens and in doing so breaks a cease-fire?
Yes, as hard as it may seem, its none of our business.
You try and be Cameron/Obama and making that decision, and literally sentencing millions to their death....perhaps you would think differently if you would have this on your conscience for the rest of your life.
[cite]Posted By: Greenie[/cite]Yes, as hard as it may seem, its none of our business.
Surely as memebers of the UN it is our business? I'd go a step further and say we have a responsibility to go in and help.
I didnt see us rushing to Zimbabwe (regardless of the UN). Its bullshit. Its oil.
My nephew is out in Afgan (he's a Para), hes convinced its all a waste of time and quite frankly he is fed up being a political pawn.
All that happens is our young men and women get slaughtered, we are best out of it, by all means we should defend our own country, I dont think any soldier/airman etc will disagree with that, but the middle east will always be a poinless killing zone for our forces.
The problem is that we were always morally obliged to intervene as we (the allied nations) were actively encouraging revolt. If it was made clear in the first instance that we would no longer be adopting policies of regime change by force- people who decide to rise up would be making informed decsions rather than on an expectation of some help/intervention happening that doesn't. We should also adopt policies of not selling arms to these regimes or do any sort of non humanitarian business with them, but lots of people/comapnies have been made rich in this country from selling arms to the wrong sort of nations.
When we fought the Falklands war, we were fighting against British built jets - the infamous General Belgrano was an American battleship that survived Pearl Harbour.
It is very hard, especially as Libya has a terrible regime but western intervention causes more damage to the region than the problems it solves. Surely History throughout the last century and this has shown us that.
If the Libyan rebels win, take control and form a government and then the opposition decide they don't like them and take up arms against them do we then attack the newly formed rebel government...?
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]luckily they have oil there hence the wests moral issues excuse .......
surely that's a coincidence?
There was no oil in Kosovo but the west still intervened.
If the west were only interested in oil they would just keep out of it or even help Gadaffi. Libya has been selling oil on the market quite happily for years. Why would it be better if the rebels were in charge?
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]luckily they have oil there hence the wests moral issues excuse .......
surely that's a coincidence?
There was no oil in Kosovo but the west still intervened.
If the west were only interested in oil they would just keep out of it or even help Gadaffi. Libya has been selling oil on the market quite happily for years. Why would it be better if the rebels were in charge?
Very true, but how long did it take before the world did something or look at Rwanda, Cambodia and others including Afganistan where we did nothing.
Algarve im not blaming Brown and Blair im just saying they should be sent to Tripoli !! hopefully to meet their good old buddy Gadman and they can all sit on one of his nice new tanks having tea.
Kosovo was like a small out of control camp fire threatening to turn the whole region into a raging out of control forest fire...
The West needed to extinguish it quickly so as to preserve the important economic links they have made with Caspian based countries since the break up of the Soviet Union...
There are more coal, oil and gold and other mineral reserves in that region than have yet been utilised...
[cite]Posted By: RedZed333[/cite]Kosovo was like a small out of control camp fire threatening to turn the whole region into a raging out of control forest fire...
Bo it wasn't. Without western intervention the Serbs would have quickly crushed the Ksovon rebellion. It was purely a humanitarian intervention without any real economic relevance. The economic links with the Caspian based countries argument is surely a joke. I suppose if you cant fit the facts to your worldview you simply have to invent some.
[cite]Posted By: charltonkeston[/cite]
Very true, but how long did it take before the world did something or look at Rwanda, Cambodia and others including Afganistan where we did nothing.
Couldn't agree more. But the fact that we abstained from doing right in some situations is not an argument that we should never do right.
Comments
How so?
Should we (the allied nations) sit back and watch as Gadaffi slaughters his citizens and in doing so breaks a cease-fire?
Yes, as hard as it may seem, its none of our business.
Surely as memebers of the UN it is our business? I'd go a step further and say we have a responsibility to go in and help.
I agree. If we were being attacked by our own soldiers/dictator, we would want other countries to come in and help us. I think we have a responsibility to help people in need if we can and I believe this situation needs that help.
You try and be Cameron/Obama and making that decision, and literally sentencing millions to their death....perhaps you would think differently if you would have this on your conscience for the rest of your life.
Been reading the guardian by anychance? ;-)
I didnt see us rushing to Zimbabwe (regardless of the UN). Its bullshit. Its oil.
My nephew is out in Afgan (he's a Para), hes convinced its all a waste of time and quite frankly he is fed up being a political pawn.
All that happens is our young men and women get slaughtered, we are best out of it, by all means we should defend our own country, I dont think any soldier/airman etc will disagree with that, but the middle east will always be a poinless killing zone for our forces.
surely that's a coincidence?
When we fought the Falklands war, we were fighting against British built jets - the infamous General Belgrano was an American battleship that survived Pearl Harbour.
It is very hard, especially as Libya has a terrible regime but western intervention causes more damage to the region than the problems it solves. Surely History throughout the last century and this has shown us that.
Where does it all end...?
Not one British life should be lost for that piece of sand or its people. Send Brown and Blair out there they loved the guy let them sort it all out.
They have gone GH, get over it, start blamimg someone else.
There was no oil in Kosovo but the west still intervened.
If the west were only interested in oil they would just keep out of it or even help Gadaffi. Libya has been selling oil on the market quite happily for years. Why would it be better if the rebels were in charge?
They were French and Brazilian but we did supply the maps and a few bombs.
I read this week that oil is back on the agenda down there.
There does seem to be a bit of a pattern in these wars we like to fight.
Very true, but how long did it take before the world did something or look at Rwanda, Cambodia and others including Afganistan where we did nothing.
Ghaddafi looks like the baddy in Thunderbirds.
The West needed to extinguish it quickly so as to preserve the important economic links they have made with Caspian based countries since the break up of the Soviet Union...
There are more coal, oil and gold and other mineral reserves in that region than have yet been utilised...
Bo it wasn't. Without western intervention the Serbs would have quickly crushed the Ksovon rebellion. It was purely a humanitarian intervention without any real economic relevance. The economic links with the Caspian based countries argument is surely a joke. I suppose if you cant fit the facts to your worldview you simply have to invent some.
Couldn't agree more. But the fact that we abstained from doing right in some situations is not an argument that we should never do right.