Identifying the problem

Dave2l

There's something seriously wrong with charlton at the moment and I would put a large percentage of it down to the players attitude. There just isn't any fight in team certainly not what is required to win football matches with the ambition of getting promoted. It's been like this for a while whether we win loose or draw, it's just not good enough and I don't see it changing any time soon.

boggzy

[cite]Posted By: Dave2l[/cite]It's been like this for a while whether we win loose or draw

Around 5 years to be exact :-(

Really really strange

siblers

When you look at the attacking options we have we should really be getting results against the likes of Oldham etc but the players just don't seem to be up to it. Would have hoped Powelly would have given them a bit of a shoe up their holes but it doesn't seem to be happening :(

boogica

keeper shite
defence shite
midfield shite
forwards shite bar bwp
sums it up really.

cafcdan18

Not the fans, management, owener, tealadied. THE PLAYERS.

Some not good enough, full stop- Fortune, Doc, Francis, McOxo.
Some not fit to wear the shirt- Racon, Reid.
Some on a really bad run of form- Elliot, Dailly, Waggy.
No passion, desire, fight.
Happy to be negative, get outfought, bullied, embarassed by equally average players.

AddickJoe

No passion or fight!

paulsturgess

It's not difficult. We've got a bad team. Full stop. We need 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 decent players to turn into a decent squad. Doesn't matter whos in charge, we just have a bad team. Earlier in the season I used to think we are okay, if we could just get a half decent striker we would be decent enough. But we have one now who actually looks like he can score and is decent at this level (and even two with Ecclestone), but we are still toss. And its because we are just weak all round. Our better players (Racon / Reid / Semedo / Dailly) are players who could be made to look adequate/half decent if they were playing alongside other genuinely decent players. But that's their limit.

I just hope Chrissy Powell can step up to the plate and produce when it really counts - in the summer.

charlton_carl

Think we lose to many games in the centre of the park.never boss a game in midfield and with the back line we have we will carry on losing games

Dave2l

We need to concentrate on not loosing the next game, take a look at ourselves and understand our situation. Not saying we should give up on promotion as you always need something to aim for, but, if neccesary we should use the remaining season just to fix ourselves because it's what we really need.

Oggy Red

Let's get rid of this myth that we have bad players.

They are good players for this level. No doubt.

But we do have an unbalanced team..... and that's the problem.

Scoham

[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Let's get rid of this myth that we have bad players.

They are good players for this level. No doubt.

But we do have an unbalanced team..... and that's the problem.

As long as we also stop the myth that certain players are "top draw, "class", "too good for this league" etc.

In most cases they are usually somewhere in between. Same with managers.

eldavide

Not sure it is a myth that we have bad players. At any level of football, the team whose player's can't control the ball, can't pass to their team mates,or who loose possession in the tackle will loose the game. Ask yourselves, out of the teams we've lost to recently, (and Swindon, and Brighton), which team is it who can pass, retain possession, and tackle?
There's your problem

addick16

its our desire in midfield. we need players that are willing to go hard for every tackle in the midfield. Other then semedo, i cant name another midfielder who leaves his heart on the pitch every matchday. we need mids that have heart. Waggy has heart but he channels it in the wrong direction, chasing down hopeless balls and losing positioning in the process.

Racon, Reid, mccormack dont have that charlton heart we are missing in the middle of the park...

dabos

All this 'desire' and 'passion' talk is meaningless unless you're actually a decent footballer. Trying a bit harder won't make these guys top League 1 players.

Saga Lout

[cite]Posted By: dabos[/cite]All this 'desire' and 'passion' talk is meaningless unless you're actually a decent footballer. Trying a bit harder won't make these guys top League 1 players.

I can't believe these players have suddenly turned into bad players. They do seem to be lacking in something, whether it be desire and passion or coaching or the correct formation and understanding of their role in the team and the others around them.

Dave2l

One thing is that we have no bounce back ability where if we loose 1 game the loosing run will just continue. 1 Defeat after a good run and it rips us apart...maybe we think we are too good for this league and won't compete in the same way as other teams do.

joeaddick

We have a goalie that is prone to more than the odd error..
We have players that hardly ever close down or cut out crosses...
We have no pace in the middle of defence...
We have 2 overrated regular playing central midfielders who are no threat at attacking or creating, and we only have one out & out consistent goalscorer...

Whether we have good players or bad players, not many would argue that the squad is lacking, yet
not enough was done to address this in January, and I'm not convinced that even if we got two great loan signings, that would be enough to give us the consistency we all seem to crave...

If the board wanted a new manager they should have given him the opportunity to build up his own team rather than tinker about with Parky's, but they were never going to put Powell in that position, because he told us in his January transfer interview, that we didn't have much to spend for new players...

As that was the case we should have stuck with what we had and waited till the summer for a new manager, as that seems to be the time when many fans seem to think we'll get the signings...
I have no idea why so many think that, but I've read it everywhere...

O-Randy-Hunt

What happened to the team that went 4-0 up at half time to peterborough. Beat swindon 3-0 away. 3-0 up away at carlisle by h/t.

We were looking unbeatable back then which weren't to long ago

O-Randy-Hunt

Dabos.

Disagree. Working hard for the 90 minutes makes it so much harder for the oppo. Get in the oppo's faces and stop them from playing IMO is better than having technically good players

Explain why so many teams get results against prem clubs.

Orient against arsenal
Crawler outplaying man united
Stevenage v newcastle

harveys_gardener

[cite]Posted By: O-Randy-Hunt[/cite]Dabos.

Disagree. Working hard for the 90 minutes makes it so much harder for the oppo. Get in the oppo's faces and stop them from playing IMO is better than having technically good players

These sides have all eleven making challenges. We have our back 4 sitting on 18 yard line watching Semedo & Racon chase 4/5 midfielders and a forward dropping deep.

O-Randy-Hunt

Exactly. 11 players willing to fight for each other and get in oppositions faces putting the other team under pressure when not in possession

ShootersHillGuru

Teams with a collective group of players that have been IMHO worse man for man than ours have put us to the sword because these teams have played to a shape and have worked hard for each other. I see none of these qualities in Charlton for possibly three years. I don't see a style of football in Charlton and until we get a well worked system to play we will continue to disappoint. All we do is go out and play game of football. If a team has a shape it can always fall back on that basic system when under pressure or expand the system when dominating. I don't believe that our players are any worse than Exeters or Carlisle but the coaching has been poor under Parky. If Powell can sort this very basic element of football out then we can then start to add to the framework by getting players who will enhance our system instead of just getting any player in a hoping it pays off.

harveys_gardener

Won't accept the "our players aren't good enough" arguement. We have 8 in our squad who've played regularly at a higher level (if some a little long in the tooth), 4 promosing kids, 4 who've done well at other Div 1 clubs and one or two where the jury's out. They need some direction.

Jayajosh

Midfield psycho desperately needed, somebody willing to get into 50/50 tackles and square up to the opposition if it all kicks off, somebody that bloody cares and would play that way because they like playing football and not just taking the money that it generates.

dabos

[cite]Posted By: O-Randy-Hunt[/cite]Dabos.

Disagree. Working hard for the 90 minutes makes it so much harder for the oppo. Get in the oppo's faces and stop them from playing IMO is better than having technically good players

Explain why so many teams get results against prem clubs.

Orient against arsenal
Crawler outplaying man united
Stevenage v newcastle

I don't disagree that working hard for the 90 minutes doesn't make it harder for the opposition. But it's not going to make Semedo/Reid use their weaker foot once in a while or improve the positional sense of most of our players. I don't think an extra 10% effort is going to get us promoted - there are too many deficiencies in the squad for it to be that simple.

[cite]Posted By: harveys gardener[/cite]Won't accept the "our players aren't good enough" arguement. We have 8 in our squad who've played regularly at a higher level (if some a little long in the tooth), 4 promosing kids, 4 who've done well at other Div 1 clubs and one or two where the jury's out. They need some direction.

Whether they've played at a higher level before is a bit irrelevant. They're with us in League 1 now and many of them are performing below the standard that should be expected of a League 1 footballer.

paulsturgess

[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Let's get rid of this myth that we have bad players.

They are good players for this level. No doubt.

But we do have an unbalanced team..... and that's the problem.

They aren't Oggy. They really aren't. Elliot, Francis, Doherty, Dailly, Fortune, Llera, Bessone, Wagstaff, McCormack, Benson... they are all no better than average at this level. They just aren't. Some (Doherty / Llera / McCormack) are poor players at this level.

The only players in the current squad who are arguably "good players" for this level as you suggest are Jackson, Semedo, BWP, and on loan, Ecclestone. Maybe Anyinsah. And whilst they are good players at this level, none of them are exceptional to the extent where they will really stand out and dominate games week in week out in the way players for most successful sides do. E.g. Kinsella and Robbo when we got promoted, Lambert and Lallana for Saints last year, or Andy Reid when we first got relegated and before we flogged him to Sunderland. Or even Bailey in spells last year.

Racon and Reid both have it in their locker to be two of the best players in the division but for whatever reason (apathy, poor coaching, poor teammates, who knows), only infrequently show themselves to be even "good players" at this level, and more often just appear, like most of the others, average to poor.

We have, on the whole, a very mediocre side. The better players listed above mean we are able to sustain the position we are in but it simply isn't anywhere near as good as the top 4 sides in this division. Which is why we never, never dominate games like Brighton, Southampton and Huddersfield do. Even when we spanked Pboro, we pretty much scored with every chance, it wasnt a dominant, masterful performance. They were as bad as we were good.

Last year we had a fitter Dailly, Richardson, Sam, Shelvey, Bailey... They were some of the best players in the division. That's what we don't have this year. Because better sides wanted them. Nobody is knocking on the door trying to sign Wagstaff. Cos he's crap.

joeaddick

[cite]Posted By: paulsturgess[/cite]

[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Let's get rid of this myth that we have bad players.

They are good players for this level. No doubt.

But we do have an unbalanced team..... and that's the problem.

They aren't Oggy. They really aren't. Elliot, Francis, Doherty, Dailly, Fortune, Llera, Bessone, Wagstaff, McCormack, Benson... they are all no better than average at this level. They just aren't. Some (Doherty / Llera / McCormack) are poor players at this level.

The only players in the current squad who are arguably "good players" for this level as you suggest are Jackson, Semedo, BWP, and on loan, Ecclestone. Maybe Anyinsah. And whilst they are good players at this level, none of them are exceptional to the extent where they will really stand out and dominate games week in week out in the way players for most successful sides do. E.g. Kinsella and Robbo when we got promoted, Lambert and Lallana for Saints last year, or Andy Reid when we first got relegated and before we flogged him to Sunderland. Or even Bailey in spells last year.

Racon and Reid both have it in their locker to be two of the best players in the division but for whatever reason (apathy, poor coaching, poor teammates, who knows), only infrequently show themselves to be even "good players" at this level, and more often just appear, like most of the others, average to poor.

We have, on the whole, a very mediocre side. The better players listed above mean we are able to sustain the position we are in but it simply isn't anywhere near as good as the top 4 sides in this division. Which is why we never, never dominate games like Brighton, Southampton and Huddersfield do. Even when we spanked Pboro, we pretty much scored with every chance, it wasnt a dominant, masterful performance. They were as bad as we were good.

Last year we had a fitter Dailly, Richardson, Sam, Shelvey, Bailey... They were some of the best players in the division. That's what we don't have this year. Because better sides wanted them. Nobody is knocking on the door trying to sign Wagstaff. Cos he's crap.

Great post Paul...

Vinnie V.

We need a big hard c### up front. We did not win a header in the oppo's half on tue. You need some one who's going to mix it up with the centre backs. Not just fall over and have a tantrum. This team simply does not have the ball's for the fight. How many of them would you actually be scared of in a fight?

RedArmySE7

I can think of 11 problems.

BigRedEvil

[cite]Posted By: Vinnie V.[/cite]We need a big hard c### up front. We did not win a header in the oppo's half on tue. You need some one who's going to mix it up with the centre backs. Not just fall over and have a tantrum. This team simply does not have the ball's for the fight. How many of them would you actually be scared of in a fight?

I'd say we need someone like that in midfield as well, someone who gets in the face of the opposition and winds them up a bit.