Where do you think Charlton would be today if they still were if Arsenal had still became the team they are today?
Been thinking about that question recently as Tottenham are looking to move east, their fans biggest defence to Arsenal fans slagging them off is 'your a south London club anyway'. We were formed in 1905 turning professional in 1920 with Arsenal moving to north London in 1913 so we obviously co-existed for a period of time but always wondered what it would of been like today and if we would of been allowed to exist alongside them a mile down the road. Personally I think we could of never turned professional with Arsenal still there but then again my knowledge and history of that time and events stretches as far as Wikipedia so would be interesting to hear from somebody more knowledgable.
0
Comments
In the 40s were were equal but they invested in seats at Highbury and grew stronger. We did not invest and remained virtually all standing only apart from the small lovely stand on the west. missed opportunity by the Glicksteins.......
They had gone bust 2 or 3 years before they moved to Highbury, so the die was cast, what is interesting is that we had no interest when we turned professional or looked at becoming a bigger club to take over the Manor Ground.
They'd have played at The Valley.
Therefore Arsenal would have had to stay put on Plumstead common and eventually die out.
Shame they moved to north London really.
Anti-English,cheating, scum.
You can still see terracing from their other ground (the Invicta Ground) across Plumstead Road in the back gardens of Mineral Street - you can peek over the fences and see it - but judging from the street layout that must have been a tiny ground.
But was Charlton's decision to become a senior team (in the summer of 1913) a direct result of Arsenal moving that same summer, or just coincidence? And how did we pull in such massive crowds to The Valley when Woolwich Arsenal struggled a couple of decades earlier?
There's of other London football what-ifs vaguely connected with all this - Arsenal tried to merge with Fulham before the Highbury move, who themselves had first dibs on Stamford Bridge when it was built. Their refusal meant Stamford Bridge's owners decided to form their own club... Chelsea.
More here if you like your football history.
Was it on the common?
Also, I've just realised that the little ditty, I before E except after C is wrong!
How weird is that, You posted what I wanted to know!
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=51.491631,0.088942&spn=0.002819,0.010815&t=h
We moved south before Arsenal moved north.
Be interesting to see what the crowds were for all 3 clubs from 1910 to 1913 then.
I believe Millwall actually turned down the chance to become professional after winning the Southern league or something, Arsenal were offered it and took the chance and the rest is history!
Millwall's move does get overlooked, that must have been an upheaval - the Greenwich Foot Tunnel should never have been built in the first place, it'd have kept them over there ;-)
SLL - where on the Isle of Dogs was Millwall's old ground?
We played in several areas in Millwall area of the Isle of Dogs;
There's a thread on a wall site about a lot of our support living south side anyway as they worked on the docks etc.
Does raise another point to this thread though...if Millwall had stayed on the island and Arsenal went north...Charlton would have had one hell of a catchment area back then!
Edit: According to SLL's map is was their 3rd ground.
Inspector, Wasn't the name relevant to where most of the team worked rather than where they played?
Clearly Arsenal needed to do something. I am slightly mystified about why the gates at Plumstead were so low.
My guess is that an Arsenal fully engaged in the Woolwich area may well have stifled our development.
TCE - true, especially as Arsenal was first called Dial Square FC. (There's now a little plaque outside on Dial Square in the Arsenal development, outside the new pub.)
Perhaps a lot of the working class support at the time were already Millwall & west ham through the docks, and Charlton. Perhaps there wasn't enough working class support in the area to sustain Arsenal?
As above, would be interesting to see what the attendances were. I can only find ours back to 1920 which were 18k!
Was the 1920s millwall's golden ear? :-)
Link
The government closing some of the munitions factories at the Arsenal is mentioned as a factor, which makes me wonder if Arsenal's old support was drawn exclusively from the Arsenal workers. Because we did alright a couple of decades later, and I imagine much of our support would have come from the (cilvilan) factories along the Charlton/ Woolwich riverfront.
Seriously though, some absolutely fascinating stuff in this thread. Someone should start organising tours of the lost football grounds of London. A lucrative little sideline for the Inspector, perhaps?
As for the Arse well if they had stayed in Woolwich i think someone would burnt their ground down they their glory hunting knoblets in side.