I've advocated signing Danny Green for that CM role for quite a while and am astounded that wiki says he was released by us when he was 15! Is this true - you can't always trust wiki can you? Had no idea!
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]I think Henry has it spot on. Seriously wealthy doesn't necessary mean seriously large budget.
We are in the third tier of football. Frankly it would be ludicrous to over spend at this level.
Take QPR for example. Owned by some seriously rich characters. Naturally they've put some money in but they haven't busted the bank to get stellar players in. They have taken several seasons before they've got in right on the field.
I am greatly reassured by what I hear/read from Slater. I think he brings a feeling of security that we haven't had now for four years. He states evolution not revolution. I much prefer the former.
To me the club is moving, maybe inching, forward but it is moving forward again. We need to exercise some patience.
I do not believe that we would have been promoted this season under Parky because the desperation and the general lack of faith in him undermined the confidence of the team. Also generally, the ambience of the club was a depressing one of a big fail and peeling paint.
There is a huge change. It hasn't yet converted to on the pitch performances, in terms of champagne football but two battling home performances are a good start. Before CP came, we could and probably would have lost last night.
Maybe CPs intervention last night with the 4th Official is part of the change. It turned the game around. Mac clearing off the line at the death is also about players stepping up an taking responsibility.
I think that confidence off the pitch will help to build confidence on it. As a consequence I think that promotion this season, never a certainty, is more not less likely.
I still believe there are some seriously wealthy investors involved.[/quote
Most sensible post i have read on here for a while. Also i agree 100% with what Henry says.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]I think Henry has it spot on. Seriously wealthy doesn't necessary mean seriously large budget.
We are in the third tier of football. Frankly it would be ludicrous to over spend at this level.
Take QPR for example. Owned by some seriously rich characters. Naturally they've put some money in but they haven't busted the bank to get stellar players in. They have taken several seasons before they've got in right on the field.
I am greatly reassured by what I hear/read from Slater. I think he brings a feeling of security that we haven't had now for four years. He states evolution not revolution. I much prefer the former.
To me the club is moving, maybe inching, forward but it is moving forward again. We need to exercise some patience.
I do not believe that we would have been promoted this season under Parky because the desperation and the general lack of faith in him undermined the confidence of the team. Also generally, the ambience of the club was a depressing one of a big fail and peeling paint.
There is a huge change. It hasn't yet converted to on the pitch performances, in terms of champagne football but two battling home performances are a good start. Before CP came, we could and probably would have lost last night.
Maybe CPs intervention last night with the 4th Official is part of the change. It turned the game around. Mac clearing off the line at the death is also about players stepping up an taking responsibility.
I think that confidence off the pitch will help to build confidence on it. As a consequence I think that promotion this season, never a certainty, is more not less likely.
I still believe there are some seriously wealthy investors involved.[/quote
Most sensible post i have read on here for a while. Also i agree 100% with what Henry says.
If the central midfield isn't sorted out then this extra 10% of effort will soon dissapate as they relentlessly bang there heads against a brick wall. Wouldn't want to be a striker playing in front of them but i'm remaining positive and hoping the plan is quality from the loan market. If they are wealthy and don't address that position then i will be unimpressed regardless of all the other changes.
I have to say that I'm glad we are not spending stupid money on players who will only want to come to our club because of the salary incentive. I like the idea that we will go about our business quietly and efficiently. We were once a model club that only other clubs could envy and I see no reason why we shouldn't go about our business prudently. Most people loathe clubs that buy success, that's not what the game is about imho.
Timing, Dan ......, you can't just throw money at it and sign any old player randomly.
Many factors to take into account, not least allowing for the new management team to bed in and identify the right players/personalities to fit into the team.
We ahve seen this all before, Curbs spent no money and look what he did with the club, football is a funny old game! Give it time, only then can we see...
You all makevery good and valid points but can I just say that if we don't get things right and get ourselves a team that beats all before it then I shall hold you all personally responsible ;0)
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillTechnicalDirector[/cite]You all makevery good and valid points but can I just say that if we don't get things right and get ourselves a team that beats all before it then I shall hold you all personally responsible ;0)
I'd forgotten about Martin and Seip so fair point but we do have, as WSS has said, the three extra wages from paying off PP, MK and TB (which I'd overlooked as well)
You know, I just don't buy this "we must have this type of player, or that type of player". This is the Premier League mentality and what is wrong with much of football these days in my opinion. What happened to good coaching and individual skills?
The two teams at the top of our league are playing decent football. Neither of them have had a pot to p*ss in for many years. Its good coaching/team management which has made the crucial difference.
Poyet didn't make things happen overnight. He has been steadily improving the way the team plays.
I remember Tigana at Fulham a few years back getting his team to pass the ball, including playing it out from the back. Of course he improved the playing squad but he also improved the existing players.
When Curbs built the play off winning team, it wasn't just down to Mendonca's goals - important though that was. It was the 10 -15% improvement in the existing players like John Robinson and Mark Kinsella.
When he signed Robbo, frankly I couldn't really see a potentially great player there. Indeed his head didn't seem right. Robbo worked at improving his game in one to one sessions with Les Reed. Players like Kins had potential but he was pretty raw and unfocussed at the start. Both the players not only improved to an excellent Championship level, they became good enough to be part of the Premiership team.
Take Powelly himself. His whole career was about gradual and continuous improvement. He became an England International at 31.
We really must read what Slater says. I take him at face value. It is evolution not revolution. We have some great coaches now at the club, and with the work done by Damian Matthew, we have another crop of youngsters coming through. The first team squad needs work both in tactical play but also in improving their individual performances. This is not going to happen over night. What has happened is a change of mood. The feeling around the place has become more upbeat. That in itself has led to improvement on the pitch.
For me the most telling thing about last nights game was the tenacity shown by CP and staff at getting the Ref to change his mind and disallow the goal. It is those things, compounded over time which can make the difference. It is why at Man U, Fergie taps his watch and injury time is known as Fergie time. It is why very few penalties are given against Man U at Old Trafford. These things might be erksome and the subject of criticism by rivals but they are important in creating a winning mentality. That's what we need now, even more than this player or that player - we need a winning mentality and I think we have the people in charge who have that.
So believe, keep the faith, be steadfast and above all try to be patient. The new project has just started. I am looking forward to the journey.
agree with bing. our club is big enough 'in this league' to attrack players that other smaller/poorer clubs cannot. it is these differences that i believe will get us promotion, that and a manager that everyone respects. i have no doubt that is anyone in the squad isn't seen to have the right attitude, regardless of their ability, like curbs, powell will drop them, i hope.
my thoughts on the squad are that they are all 'professionals' with many years of experience. they are expected to give their best for which they are paid very well.
as for the board. they are being cautious rightly. if they release extensive funds now any potential purchases will have a £000+ on the end. after all the new owner are in this for a business proposition. if they were Charlton, we would know who they are already!i would much rather see a gradual climb as in the 90's rather than success blip then back to poverty ala palace. i'm more than happy to see our owners keep a rein on player's wages. bringing 1-2 player's on significantly higher wages could upset the squad and promote disharmony.
Good post Bing. I'd say on Tuesday there were times you could see a real quality midfielder might have made the difference.
However if we don't bring one in on loan, it doesn't mean we cannot get promoted. I'm sure every club in League One could say they need a certain type of player or two to improve their team. One player might make the difference, but the current squad is still good enough to win plenty of games in this division.
With the improvements up front and the pressure of promotion being a must, we're in a better position than we were just over a month ago.
Well said Bing. I also think that if we start throwing money around in a conspicuous way, it will focus too much attention and pressure on us. I like the softly, softly approach myself (this also helps a lot when attempting to buy players and sign them to non-ridiculous contract terms - good point, Prince). I favour a stealth attack on the promotion spots, rather than making all the other clubs focus on us, making playing us an even 'bigger deal' and resulting in them raising their game when they play us.
I believe that there is money, but it is simply not sensible to advertise this fact. Also, given how many things happened in January, we could have made the mistake of signing players before having had the time to properly judge whether they were right for the club. This also gives us far more options in the summer.
I expect something to happen in the form of loans at the end of the month, though. By then, SCP will know exactly what it is that he thinks our squad needs.
Excellent post Bing! I agree with everything you say, afterall if we have a management team that cant coach professional footballers to improve individually or tacticaly then the owners have made a grave mistake.
However I believe that this is not now the case and with SCP, AD, and DM (not forgetting Mr Charlton himself - Keefy), we have a managemet team that can improve the exisiting squad to deliver what we all want.....good football with a passion and pride to wear the shirt.
It also makes sense for the new owners not to go 'splashing the cash', as we know that will lead to over-inflated prices for any player(s) we may be wanting to buy.
Lets see if SCP decides to use the loan market after he has had time with AD alongside him to see where we need to strengthen, or, as you say, can we utilise the existing squad.
If we do see an addition from the loan market then so be it, if not we remain patient and watch the newfound (hopefully) 'winning mentality' spread throghout the entire squad.
A new mental strength added to excellent coaching on a team and individual basis will reap rewards, but it will take time, time, which for now, the new owners sound as though they are willing to give to the new set-up. We as supporters need to echo this on the terraces and trust SCP and co to deliver the goods.
I to am looking forward to the journey!
Any views on us getting a creative midfield player in?
You not really commented on that part of the team much : - )
Do you not see it as an important issue Henry? Everybody i speak to does but there does seem to be a bit of a blind spot when it comes to Racon and Semedo on this board. Everybody's entitled to their opinion of course but those two have been pretty much the only constants in our slide down the league rankings over the last 3 or 4 years.
Any views on us getting a creative midfield player in?
You not really commented on that part of the team much : - )
Do you not see it as an important issue Henry? Everybody i speak to does but there does seem to be a bit of a blind spot when it comes to Racon and Semedo on this board. Everybody's entitled to their opinion of course but those two have been pretty much the only constants in our slide down the league rankings over the last 3 or 4 years.
It's just that you've mentioned it on just about every post you've made. Hence the smiley.
We'd all like 11 players better than we have now but you can't always get what you want, sometimes you get what you need.
Any views on us getting a creative midfield player in?
You not really commented on that part of the team much : - )
Do you not see it as an important issue Henry? Everybody i speak to does but there does seem to be a bit of a blind spot when it comes to Racon and Semedo on this board. Everybody's entitled to their opinion of course but those two have been pretty much the only constants in our slide down the league rankings over the last 3 or 4 years.
It's just that you've mentioned it on just about every post you've made. Hence the smiley.
We'd all like 11 players better than we have now but you can't always get what you want, sometimes you get what you need.
Thats the point - its what we need most. Sorry if i bore you Henry - i'm not as boring as the football we serve up at the Valley though am i? am i?
Any views on us getting a creative midfield player in?
You not really commented on that part of the team much : - )
Do you not see it as an important issue Henry? Everybody i speak to does but there does seem to be a bit of a blind spot when it comes to Racon and Semedo on this board. Everybody's entitled to their opinion of course but those two have been pretty much the only constants in our slide down the league rankings over the last 3 or 4 years.
It's just that you've mentioned it on just about every post you've made. Hence the smiley.
We'd all like 11 players better than we have now but you can't always get what you want, sometimes you get what you need.
Thats the point - its what we need most. Sorry if i bore you Henry - i'm not as boring as the football we serve up at the Valley though am i? am i?
I'm with you and have frequently made the same point.
A 36 year old Kishishev put our midfield into perspective at The Valley.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Well since you mention it.... : - )
May well be what we need but finding the right player that we can afford and who wants to come and whose Club will let him go is another thing.
In the meantime we have to get on with what we have. Players who can be creative AND do the defensive side don't grow on trees.
Personally I think Jackson is the player we need in the middle but that means finding someone more defensive than Reid for wide left. Bassone maybe.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Jackson, the answer to our centre midfield problems?? There are thousands of creative midfielders who also do the defensive side right down to sunday league football - i'm not saying they are all Cesc Fabregas but its a 'type' of player we don't have and will benefit the rest of the side so much when playing at home (in my opinion). All the rest of the issues at the moment are tittle tattle at the moment and i'd be willing to bet my house on us not gaining promotion unless we get it sorted out
But Kish was never a playmaker. He could pass a ball but he and Semedo have similar roles (Kish was much better). Keith Jones was another converted defender who was there to break up play and pass to the other, more creative/attacking players like Kinsella, Jensen, etc.
Best playmakers I've seen for us are: Jenson, Andy Reid and Murphy. Kish was definately a midfield stopper imo, good breaking up play and giving the short pass which is what his role basically was - not a playmaker, so I agree with Henry there.
In the past, for short-term expediency, we have tried a number of so called "creative" midfielders. Virtually none of them either fit enough or not up to much.
Other than the extremely talented Jonjo, the best playmaker we had for some while was Andy Reid but Pardew struggled to find the right formation/team to play around him. Indeed I believe that Parky struggled to find a settled role for Jonjo which is why in the end he tended to play him less and less.
I can see somebody like Bostock coming in and either firing us to the top or crashing and burning.
I still come back to the players we have and getting the best out of them.
Racon is capable of being much more of a playmaker than he shows much of the time. The coaches need to get more from him because I am sure there is more there.
I come back to Waggy who I think could be the player to step up. He is technically competent. He can certain hit a quality ball into the box. He is good on the ball, he has pace, he has a decent scoring record and above all he'll die for the cause. Given the players available to CP, I'd certainly have him in my team!
So if they can get in somebody decent in the short term, that maybe the way to go but if not, I'd look to young Scott.
Comments
but that money is already accounted for.
I think.
If the central midfield isn't sorted out then this extra 10% of effort will soon dissapate as they relentlessly bang there heads against a brick wall. Wouldn't want to be a striker playing in front of them but i'm remaining positive and hoping the plan is quality from the loan market. If they are wealthy and don't address that position then i will be unimpressed regardless of all the other changes.
Many factors to take into account, not least allowing for the new management team to bed in and identify the right players/personalities to fit into the team.
Yes, Boss.
;o)
I'd forgotten about Martin and Seip so fair point but we do have, as WSS has said, the three extra wages from paying off PP, MK and TB (which I'd overlooked as well)
Any views on us getting a creative midfield player in?
You not really commented on that part of the team much : - )
The two teams at the top of our league are playing decent football. Neither of them have had a pot to p*ss in for many years. Its good coaching/team management which has made the crucial difference.
Poyet didn't make things happen overnight. He has been steadily improving the way the team plays.
I remember Tigana at Fulham a few years back getting his team to pass the ball, including playing it out from the back. Of course he improved the playing squad but he also improved the existing players.
When Curbs built the play off winning team, it wasn't just down to Mendonca's goals - important though that was. It was the 10 -15% improvement in the existing players like John Robinson and Mark Kinsella.
When he signed Robbo, frankly I couldn't really see a potentially great player there. Indeed his head didn't seem right. Robbo worked at improving his game in one to one sessions with Les Reed. Players like Kins had potential but he was pretty raw and unfocussed at the start. Both the players not only improved to an excellent Championship level, they became good enough to be part of the Premiership team.
Take Powelly himself. His whole career was about gradual and continuous improvement. He became an England International at 31.
We really must read what Slater says. I take him at face value. It is evolution not revolution. We have some great coaches now at the club, and with the work done by Damian Matthew, we have another crop of youngsters coming through. The first team squad needs work both in tactical play but also in improving their individual performances. This is not going to happen over night. What has happened is a change of mood. The feeling around the place has become more upbeat. That in itself has led to improvement on the pitch.
For me the most telling thing about last nights game was the tenacity shown by CP and staff at getting the Ref to change his mind and disallow the goal. It is those things, compounded over time which can make the difference. It is why at Man U, Fergie taps his watch and injury time is known as Fergie time. It is why very few penalties are given against Man U at Old Trafford. These things might be erksome and the subject of criticism by rivals but they are important in creating a winning mentality. That's what we need now, even more than this player or that player - we need a winning mentality and I think we have the people in charge who have that.
So believe, keep the faith, be steadfast and above all try to be patient. The new project has just started. I am looking forward to the journey.
my thoughts on the squad are that they are all 'professionals' with many years of experience. they are expected to give their best for which they are paid very well.
as for the board. they are being cautious rightly. if they release extensive funds now any potential purchases will have a £000+ on the end. after all the new owner are in this for a business proposition. if they were Charlton, we would know who they are already!i would much rather see a gradual climb as in the 90's rather than success blip then back to poverty ala palace. i'm more than happy to see our owners keep a rein on player's wages. bringing 1-2 player's on significantly higher wages could upset the squad and promote disharmony.
However if we don't bring one in on loan, it doesn't mean we cannot get promoted. I'm sure every club in League One could say they need a certain type of player or two to improve their team. One player might make the difference, but the current squad is still good enough to win plenty of games in this division.
With the improvements up front and the pressure of promotion being a must, we're in a better position than we were just over a month ago.
I believe that there is money, but it is simply not sensible to advertise this fact. Also, given how many things happened in January, we could have made the mistake of signing players before having had the time to properly judge whether they were right for the club. This also gives us far more options in the summer.
I expect something to happen in the form of loans at the end of the month, though. By then, SCP will know exactly what it is that he thinks our squad needs.
Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey!
However I believe that this is not now the case and with SCP, AD, and DM (not forgetting Mr Charlton himself - Keefy), we have a managemet team that can improve the exisiting squad to deliver what we all want.....good football with a passion and pride to wear the shirt.
It also makes sense for the new owners not to go 'splashing the cash', as we know that will lead to over-inflated prices for any player(s) we may be wanting to buy.
Lets see if SCP decides to use the loan market after he has had time with AD alongside him to see where we need to strengthen, or, as you say, can we utilise the existing squad.
If we do see an addition from the loan market then so be it, if not we remain patient and watch the newfound (hopefully) 'winning mentality' spread throghout the entire squad.
A new mental strength added to excellent coaching on a team and individual basis will reap rewards, but it will take time, time, which for now, the new owners sound as though they are willing to give to the new set-up. We as supporters need to echo this on the terraces and trust SCP and co to deliver the goods.
I to am looking forward to the journey!
Do you not see it as an important issue Henry? Everybody i speak to does but there does seem to be a bit of a blind spot when it comes to Racon and Semedo on this board. Everybody's entitled to their opinion of course but those two have been pretty much the only constants in our slide down the league rankings over the last 3 or 4 years.
It's just that you've mentioned it on just about every post you've made. Hence the smiley.
We'd all like 11 players better than we have now but you can't always get what you want, sometimes you get what you need.
Thats the point - its what we need most. Sorry if i bore you Henry - i'm not as boring as the football we serve up at the Valley though am i? am i?
May well be what we need but finding the right player that we can afford and who wants to come and whose Club will let him go is another thing.
In the meantime we have to get on with what we have. Players who can be creative AND do the defensive side don't grow on trees.
Personally I think Jackson is the player we need in the middle but that means finding someone more defensive than Reid for wide left. Bassone maybe.
I'm with you and have frequently made the same point.
A 36 year old Kishishev put our midfield into perspective at The Valley.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Jackson, the answer to our centre midfield problems?? There are thousands of creative midfielders who also do the defensive side right down to sunday league football - i'm not saying they are all Cesc Fabregas but its a 'type' of player we don't have and will benefit the rest of the side so much when playing at home (in my opinion). All the rest of the issues at the moment are tittle tattle at the moment and i'd be willing to bet my house on us not gaining promotion unless we get it sorted out
Looks as if we are trying to get him in.
In the past, for short-term expediency, we have tried a number of so called "creative" midfielders. Virtually none of them either fit enough or not up to much.
Other than the extremely talented Jonjo, the best playmaker we had for some while was Andy Reid but Pardew struggled to find the right formation/team to play around him. Indeed I believe that Parky struggled to find a settled role for Jonjo which is why in the end he tended to play him less and less.
I can see somebody like Bostock coming in and either firing us to the top or crashing and burning.
I still come back to the players we have and getting the best out of them.
Racon is capable of being much more of a playmaker than he shows much of the time. The coaches need to get more from him because I am sure there is more there.
I come back to Waggy who I think could be the player to step up. He is technically competent. He can certain hit a quality ball into the box. He is good on the ball, he has pace, he has a decent scoring record and above all he'll die for the cause. Given the players available to CP, I'd certainly have him in my team!
So if they can get in somebody decent in the short term, that maybe the way to go but if not, I'd look to young Scott.