[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]I've never seen a fourth official step in and take control like that before.
Colchester manager says that he (and presumably all managers) were briefed before the season started that the 4th Official can step in on major game changing matters, so he was doing precisely what he was supposed to do.
Only the match referee has the authority to make a decision during the game, though Bing.
The referee is in sole charge of the match.
Other officials are there only to assist him.
It is evident that the 4th Official remonstrated with the referee, reminding him that he had already blown his whistle and stopped the game.
Under no circumstances can any subsequent continuing action be permitted until the referee restarts the game.That is a law of the game ....... and the referee would have been fully aware of that law.
Therefore the Colchester "goal" could not stand, according to the laws of the game.
A freekick awarded to Charlton, at the place he stopped the game, was required.
If the referee thought he'd blown the whistle in error, then he has the option to restart the game with a dropped ball at the place he stopped the game.
He failed to do either.
Referees make mistakes in the course of the game, they all do - they are only human.
But last night this referee tried to conceal his previous blowing of the whistle .....and pretend that he had not.
That would be why the 4th official remonstrated with the referee.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]I've never seen a fourth official step in and take control like that before.
Colchester manager says that he (and presumably all managers) were briefed before the season started that the 4th Official can step in on major game changing matters, so he was doing precisely what he was supposed to do.
Only the match referee has the authority to make a decision during the game, though Bing.
The referee is in sole charge of the match.
Other officials are there only to assist him.
It is evident that the 4th Official remonstrated with the referee, reminding him that he had already blown his whistle and stopped the game.
Under no circumstances can any subsequent continuing action be permitted until the referee restarts the game.That is a law of the game ....... and the referee would have been fully aware of that law.
Therefore the Colchester "goal" could not stand, according to the laws of the game.
A freekick awarded to Charlton, at the place he stopped the game, was required.
If the referee thought he'd blown the whistle in error, then he has the option to restart the game with a dropped ball at the place he stopped the game.
He failed to do either.
Referees make mistakes in the course of the game, they all do - they are only human.
But last night this referee triedto conceal his previous blowing of the whistle.....and pretend that he had not.
That would be why the 4th official remonstrated with the referee.
The referee can change a decision right up the restart of play. I am not sure that it's a free kick to Charlton. What offence had Colchester committed for it to be a Charlton free kick? If he's blown his whistle when no offence has occurred (the ref thought it was offisde but it actually wasn't) then it's a drop ball as far as I know.
We are all being swept along with Powellitus. Had Parkinson been in charge last night boos would have rung out at half time. Manager was too slow to react to us being outplayed and we got out of jail because of a poor refereee. Beware Chris, they loved Pardew too, you don't have too long !!!
Poor game apart from Semedo. I haven't always thought he was as good as others, but last night he was superb. Be kind to Francis, he could come good, does the hard things better than the easy things though. Wagstaff is as good as Lloyd Sam.( nuff said ). We need a playmaker more than anything else. Benson and Wright Phillips will be the front pairing without any doubt.
Once the belgian and Moroccan join we will be on the up. !!!!!!!!!!
[cite]Posted By: Spankie[/cite]The referee can change a decision right up the restart of play. I am not sure that it's a free kick to Charlton. What offence had Colchester committed for it to be a Charlton free kick? If he's blown his whistle when no offence has occurred (the ref thought it was offisde but it actually wasn't) then it's a drop ball as far as I know.
The referee apparently blew for an offside offence, Spankie.
Normally in this situation, the game is restarted by the defending team with an indirect freekick at the position the offence was committed.
If the referee has blown his whistle in error then, as you say, the game must be restarted with a dropped ball.
Which eventually he did.
Also, as you say, once the game has restarted, the referee cannot change a decision.
[cite]Posted By: masicat[/cite]Benson and Wright Phillips will be the front pairing without any doubt.
based on? .......surely not last night, benson was shocking!
Agreed...i would try BWP and eccelston...see how that goes, although it means we would have to play the ball along the floor alot and into the channels (which isnt a bad thing)
The problem is BWP and Eccleston together means there is practically a 0% success rate in the long ball... can we trust the back four and perhaps even Jackson who tends to sit back and play cross-field from deep to adhere to this? High risk high reward, because if they don't they will be on scraps.
I've seen a couple of comments about the young lad in our end who was stretchered away. Just to say he wasn't drunk or on anything, he had a pretty severe seizure. The first aid people and stewards did a good job. We're still waiting to hear how he is though.
As for the goal that wasn't. The ref made a tit of himself getting the offisde call totally wrong without looking at his assistant, but having done so he had to go with the drop ball. Not happy about it but them's the breaks. Good goal by BWP but still think we were unlucky to come away with nothing.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Only the match referee has the authority to make a decision during the game, though Bing.
The referee is in sole charge of the match.
It is ultimately the Refs decision - no dispute there. Clearly he made a mistake by whistling when it wasn't off side - no dispute there. Clearly he tried to rectify his error by awarding the goal. No dispute there. He was then in conversation with the 4th Official who pointed out the correct decision would be to disallow the goal - no dispute there. The only issue is whether the 4th Official is empowered to intervene. According to the Colchester Manager - they have been briefed that they can. Ultimately that is a not a change in the rules because its upto the Ref to make the final decision which he did.
Unlucky lofty, you were well supported last night and I know you will have come away feeling as cheated, and probably more so, than we did on new year's day.
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]The problem is BWP and Eccleston together means there is practically a 0% success rate in the long ball... can we trust the back four and perhaps even Jackson who tends to sit back and play cross-field from deep to adhere to this? High risk high reward, because if they don't they will be on scraps.
I sort of disagree, if we are playing the long ball over the top, I think it could prove effective with BWP and eccleston latching on - especially when we are playing away from home when teams are more likely to attack us...
obvioulsy just pumping the ball up to them and hoping they can hold it up is unlikely to work...
Quite like Bessone although strange he's a right footed left back. Same problem exists in midfield. It's the creative player to play alongside Semedo that we should have made a priority in my opinion. BWP not very impressive but he got on the end of a cross and finished which our strikers haven't donea lot of this season so i'll settle for him doing that every week. All in all, as i said yesterday, with this midfield we're going to have to grind out a lot of home wins - it ain't going to be pretty.
[cite]Posted By: masicat[/cite]We are all being swept along with Powellitus. Had Parkinson been in charge last night boos would have rung out at half time. Manager was too slow to react to us being outplayed and we got out of jail because of a poor refereee. Beware Chris, they loved Pardew too, you don't have too long !!!
Poor game apart from Semedo. I haven't always thought he was as good as others, but last night he was superb. Be kind to Francis, he could come good, does the hard things better than the easy things though. Wagstaff is as good as Lloyd Sam.( nuff said ). We need a playmaker more than anything else. Benson and Wright Phillips will be the front pairing without any doubt.
Once the belgian and Moroccan join we will be on the up. !!!!!!!!!!
I kind of resent the constant accusation that we're such crap fans. The Valley stuck with Parky long after he managed half of what was probably our worst ever season. We still turned out last year and I can't really remember boos for a relatively boring draw against a decent side. Particularly when we were making good chances. Some people did boo, but it was often when we were getting outplayed, getting wiped out by Brighton and trying to hang onto a team like Dagenham or were surrendering a two goal lead (which happened too often). Defeat with excellent performances against Swindon and Norwich, for example, didn't get any negative reaction.
I hope Powell or any manager gets a fair crack of the whip, but I'm equally sure if we play like we did under Parky a few times, then he'll hear about it. And he'll expect to. Look where Curbs got us too. Sometimes people even boo-ed his teams, and sometimes it was even understandable
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]The problem is BWP and Eccleston together means there is practically a 0% success rate in the long ball... can we trust the back four and perhaps even Jackson who tends to sit back and play cross-field from deep to adhere to this? High risk high reward, because if they don't they will be on scraps.
I sort of disagree, if we are playing the long ball over the top, I think it could prove effective with BWP and eccleston latching on - especially when we are playing away from home when teams are more likely to attack us...
obvioulsy just pumping the ball up to them and hoping they can hold it up is unlikely to work...
I was going to make just that point. Also, when you play that combination and stop hitting the ball at them with their back to goal you end up with a different looking pitch where the opposition drop deeper and it opens up space for the midfield to be a bit more creative.
[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]Quite like Bessone although strange he's a right footed left back. Same problem exists in midfield. It's the creative player to play alongside Semedo that we should have made a priority in my opinion. BWP not very impressive but he got on the end of a cross and finished which our strikers haven't donea lot of this season so i'll settle for him doing that every week. All in all, as i said yesterday, with this midfield we're going to have to grind out a lot of home wins - it ain't going to be pretty.
From what I saw last night I'm sure Bessone was left footed? Can remember those longer passes he did, I'm sure they were with his left foot?
I agree Robert "over the top" is a very different kettle of fish to expecting them to hold up a long ball, however it is a very difficult pass to execute and there might well be 5 too short or too long before one comes off, I don't know if we can afford to go front to back so quickly and have the ball just straight back at us.
I would like to see BWP and NE down at Yeovil but it requires a LOT of discipline and it requires Racon in the centre. As much as I think he's largely ineffective, he has a better distribution than McCormack and that is crucial.
Semedo, good solid performance last night, battled hard and does what he does BUT does anyone have their heart in their mouth when he sometimes dwells on the ball and does that little shimmy back inside? I know I do. I think on some occasions his 'composure' is an accident waiting to happen.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]
From what I saw last night I'm sure Bessone was left footed? Can remember those longer passes he did, I'm sure they were with his left foot?
Most players have a preferred foot, naturally ...... but many can (or put in a position) where they effectively play with either foot.
Part of training when I was a lad ......... was to practice kicking with both feet.
I should imagine that's still part of training today.
Can't see a partnership like BWP and NE working in the long term. The odd game maybe. I'm not sure we have that hold up player in the squad, either someone like Burton who also links the play well or an Iwelumo who offers height, strength and always makes it hard for defenders to win headers.
We want to see passing football on the floor but it's not possible all game every game.
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]As an aside...
Semedo, good solid performance last night, battled hard and does what he does BUT does anyone have their heart in their mouth when he sometimes dwells on the ball and does that little shimmy back inside? I know I do. I think on some occasions his 'composure' is an accident waiting to happen.
haha absolutely, the amount of times i murmer 'f****ckin hell' when he does that. its like you are watching him while his brain processes what he has to do. love him tho.
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]As an aside...
Semedo, good solid performance last night, battled hard and does what he does BUT does anyone have their heart in their mouth when he sometimes dwells on the ball and does that little shimmy back inside? I know I do. I think on some occasions his 'composure' is an accident waiting to happen.
Yes - he's a defender playing in midfield and isn't comfortable on the ball but i can't fault his workrate, attitude and power. None of our midfield ever have time on the ball which is what good players always seem to have - obviously we are limited as to what we bring in but a great example was Modric when he came on at Spurs - he was so in control and relaxed on the ball compared to all the frantic stuff in the first half. Our midfield just look to get rid as soon as possible. On a positive note i thought Bessone looked very comfortable and had a good touch - a lot of moves start from full back as sometimes they are given more time than anybody else on the pitch and if he can distribute well then that will help. Francis on the other hand has wooden legs and the touch of... although when he's in full flight he can be effective (not often mind you).
I'm not sure too many sides at our level have a "creative" midfielder, most just get the ball in the box and rely on the law of averages. I believe if we just (esp at home) start playing in their half chances will come. I think Reid will be more effective with Bessone who will give him options when they double up on the winger (as Francis was successful going forward yesterday). We also have Bauza possibly for a creative push. With a proper left back we can now play a diamond, Semedo then any of Reid/jackson/Racon and Waggy/Macca/ecclestone with Bauza/Eccles/BWP in the hole and two of Anyinsah/BWP/Eccletone/Benson/Abbott up top
we so got away with that decision the pattern of play did not change after the whistle was blown , if that was the other way round the tears from our fans would have put the thames barrier under strain
i was in the west stand and the fans were very patient and supportive from the north and the goodwill for SCP has got that patience
couple of reasonable saves from robbie kept us in it and a couple of decent chances went unfinished by waggy and jacko kept them in it
wright philips was anonymous bar the goal i thought and bessone didn't have much to do defensively cos colchester were quite narrow i thought
anyway how i see it is 8% chance of automatics 80% chance of play offs and 12% another year of pub stuff
soton, brighton, hudders and us .... my original choice to be battling for the top two are once again where i see the autos going
oh and francis was our only creative outlet going forward ... jackson and waggy and the 2 crabs in the middle offered little to nothing in that department
Comments
I thought Wagstaffs effort was saved?
Only the match referee has the authority to make a decision during the game, though Bing.
The referee is in sole charge of the match.
Other officials are there only to assist him.
It is evident that the 4th Official remonstrated with the referee, reminding him that he had already blown his whistle and stopped the game.
Under no circumstances can any subsequent continuing action be permitted until the referee restarts the game.That is a law of the game ....... and the referee would have been fully aware of that law.
Therefore the Colchester "goal" could not stand, according to the laws of the game.
A freekick awarded to Charlton, at the place he stopped the game, was required.
If the referee thought he'd blown the whistle in error, then he has the option to restart the game with a dropped ball at the place he stopped the game.
He failed to do either.
Referees make mistakes in the course of the game, they all do - they are only human.
But last night this referee tried to conceal his previous blowing of the whistle .....and pretend that he had not.
That would be why the 4th official remonstrated with the referee.
The referee can change a decision right up the restart of play. I am not sure that it's a free kick to Charlton. What offence had Colchester committed for it to be a Charlton free kick? If he's blown his whistle when no offence has occurred (the ref thought it was offisde but it actually wasn't) then it's a drop ball as far as I know.
Poor game apart from Semedo. I haven't always thought he was as good as others, but last night he was superb. Be kind to Francis, he could come good, does the hard things better than the easy things though. Wagstaff is as good as Lloyd Sam.( nuff said ). We need a playmaker more than anything else. Benson and Wright Phillips will be the front pairing without any doubt.
Once the belgian and Moroccan join we will be on the up. !!!!!!!!!!
Best Mr Ward has a look at that footage.
I still reckon he blew for Off-side thinking it was a given.......
The referee apparently blew for an offside offence, Spankie.
Normally in this situation, the game is restarted by the defending team with an indirect freekick at the position the offence was committed.
If the referee has blown his whistle in error then, as you say, the game must be restarted with a dropped ball.
Which eventually he did.
Also, as you say, once the game has restarted, the referee cannot change a decision.
based on? .......surely not last night, benson was shocking!
Agree!
Agreed...i would try BWP and eccelston...see how that goes, although it means we would have to play the ball along the floor alot and into the channels (which isnt a bad thing)
I've seen a couple of comments about the young lad in our end who was stretchered away. Just to say he wasn't drunk or on anything, he had a pretty severe seizure. The first aid people and stewards did a good job. We're still waiting to hear how he is though.
As for the goal that wasn't. The ref made a tit of himself getting the offisde call totally wrong without looking at his assistant, but having done so he had to go with the drop ball. Not happy about it but them's the breaks. Good goal by BWP but still think we were unlucky to come away with nothing.
Good luck for the rest of the season.
It is ultimately the Refs decision - no dispute there. Clearly he made a mistake by whistling when it wasn't off side - no dispute there. Clearly he tried to rectify his error by awarding the goal. No dispute there. He was then in conversation with the 4th Official who pointed out the correct decision would be to disallow the goal - no dispute there. The only issue is whether the 4th Official is empowered to intervene. According to the Colchester Manager - they have been briefed that they can. Ultimately that is a not a change in the rules because its upto the Ref to make the final decision which he did.
Hope the young lad makes a full recovery.
Good luck for the rest of the season, Regards
I sort of disagree, if we are playing the long ball over the top, I think it could prove effective with BWP and eccleston latching on - especially when we are playing away from home when teams are more likely to attack us...
obvioulsy just pumping the ball up to them and hoping they can hold it up is unlikely to work...
I hope Powell or any manager gets a fair crack of the whip, but I'm equally sure if we play like we did under Parky a few times, then he'll hear about it. And he'll expect to. Look where Curbs got us too. Sometimes people even boo-ed his teams, and sometimes it was even understandable
I would like to see BWP and NE down at Yeovil but it requires a LOT of discipline and it requires Racon in the centre. As much as I think he's largely ineffective, he has a better distribution than McCormack and that is crucial.
Semedo, good solid performance last night, battled hard and does what he does BUT does anyone have their heart in their mouth when he sometimes dwells on the ball and does that little shimmy back inside? I know I do. I think on some occasions his 'composure' is an accident waiting to happen.
Most players have a preferred foot, naturally ...... but many can (or put in a position) where they effectively play with either foot.
Part of training when I was a lad ......... was to practice kicking with both feet.
I should imagine that's still part of training today.
We want to see passing football on the floor but it's not possible all game every game.
Abbott!!!!
;o)
haha absolutely, the amount of times i murmer 'f****ckin hell' when he does that. its like you are watching him while his brain processes what he has to do. love him tho.
Yes - he's a defender playing in midfield and isn't comfortable on the ball but i can't fault his workrate, attitude and power. None of our midfield ever have time on the ball which is what good players always seem to have - obviously we are limited as to what we bring in but a great example was Modric when he came on at Spurs - he was so in control and relaxed on the ball compared to all the frantic stuff in the first half. Our midfield just look to get rid as soon as possible. On a positive note i thought Bessone looked very comfortable and had a good touch - a lot of moves start from full back as sometimes they are given more time than anybody else on the pitch and if he can distribute well then that will help. Francis on the other hand has wooden legs and the touch of... although when he's in full flight he can be effective (not often mind you).
we so got away with that decision the pattern of play did not change after the whistle was blown , if that was the other way round the tears from our fans would have put the thames barrier under strain
i was in the west stand and the fans were very patient and supportive from the north and the goodwill for SCP has got that patience
couple of reasonable saves from robbie kept us in it and a couple of decent chances went unfinished by waggy and jacko kept them in it
wright philips was anonymous bar the goal i thought and bessone didn't have much to do defensively cos colchester were quite narrow i thought
anyway how i see it is 8% chance of automatics 80% chance of play offs and 12% another year of pub stuff
soton, brighton, hudders and us .... my original choice to be battling for the top two are once again where i see the autos going