Saw that yesterday. Anyone else spot the mistake mentioning Llera-
It didn’t get too much better. Their replacements were otherwise uninspiring on Parkinson’s shoestring budget, with only Johnnie Jackson from Notts County and MK Dons centre back Miguel Llera raising a few hopeful eyebrows in SE7.
Kyel Reid was the one that got the fans excited and was slightly surprising at the time that everyone was pleased with Doherty.
A bit like most football "journalism" in this country it seeks to analyse events in terms of a a couple of games rather than a more appropriate time frame. 442 is a "footy" mag for the Sky/Soccer AM generation and so should probably assume that a fair amount of their readership wouldn't be aware of the fact that PP took the team over while they were outside of the Championship relegation spots and ended up bottom of that league before the last game kicked off. That was with the highest wage bill in the league. An alternative spin on the woe of Sam, Richardson, Bailey and Burton leaving might be to say that the board backed Parky in allowing him to keep those players for all of last season when they might have recouped more and spent less by moving them on. The club had a very high wage bill last season, higher than its rivals, other than maybe Southampton, but we weren't able to capitalise on it. And as for the bit about Shelvey, well their wikipedia and google must be broken because they don't seem to be aware that he chose to rarely played our "starlet" for half a season. They've also missed the fact that our cash strapped board also allowed him to spend on bringing in players like Francis, Benno, Abbott and McCormack who haven't set the heather alight. But let's be honest they think we signed Llera this season and that he's been a high point, so it's not exactly a well researched article that has a lot of depth or that is designed to be thought about too hard.
"Performances may not have been opening eyes", what on earth does this mean? I kind of expect uninformed poorly researched knee jerk journalism these days, but they shouldn't be making up nonsensical phrases.
Just read article, whilst its not a cut and paste job its not exactly from someone that knows the club and Parkys history with us. All in all the article failed to spot the bottom line is that he got the sack for losing against nearly all the rock bottom sides and our hopeless home form - all regardless of his budget and selections, all in all he was out of his depth at Charlton. At a smaller L1/L2 club with fewer expecations he will prob do well.
Never let facts get in the way of sensationalism Morts. "(Arguably) underperforming Manager dismissed whilst 3 points off mid table mediocracy" probably wouldnt see copies of the magazine fly off the shelves at smiths.
"It didn’t get too much better. Their replacements were otherwise uninspiring on Parkinson’s shoestring budget, with only Johnnie Jackson from Notts County and Sheffield United's Kyel Reid raising a few hopeful eyebrows in SE7.
''Their replacements were otherwise uninspiring on Parkinson’s shoestring budget, with only Johnnie Jackson from Notts County and Sheffield United's Kyel Reid raising a few hopeful eyebrows in SE7.''
Well 4-4-2 got that bit right, if they mean Francis, Benson. Abbott, Doherty and the Oxo Tower man.
Not suggesting that better options were available for the money. I doubt they were. But ''uninspiring'' pretty much nails it.
In fairness, it's extremely difficult to write about the Football League these days without getting in deep close to a team. There's so little coverage of it today that often articles are fairly generalised. Some of the comments above are a little harsh.
It's a little misinformed at times, but on the whole a pretty fair and balanced article I'd say. And on the Llera thing, I guess they meant at the time rather than now? I think it's quite clear he's been pretty gash since.
There's cameras at every game now, which wouldn't have been the case 20 years ago. Players' records are available at the touch of a button and fans' views can be gathered from forums etc.
Yes there's proportionally a lot more coverage of the top league, but there's actually way more coverage and public information about all clubs than has ever been the case in the past, which is why I'm so irritated about this being so half-arsed.
Fair points, but unless you support a team in the FL you just can't get that deep into them. Cameras at every game, yes, but what do you get, 30 seconds of highlights a week? Unless you're QPR, obviously. Agreed about the points about stats, there's not really an excuse for that. But fans' opinions? They all differ, no? The article does give it from the 'other' perspective as well, in ways.
Womder if as much was made when Avram Grant was sacked for getting his side to a Champions League Final but not winning it and coming runners up in the premier league??
Fair points, but unless you support a team in the FL you just can't get that deep into them. Cameras at every game, yes, but what do you get, 30 seconds of highlights a week?
You can watch selected highlights or the whole 90 minutes via CAFCTV/Player, and as I understand it if you subscribe to one you can access them all, so for £35 a year FourFourTwo could watch 90 minutes of all (most) Football League games.
The error about Llera is so unprofessional it beggers belief, but on the whole the article is no better than those cut and paste jobs we all ignore on NewsNow.
The important point is that we should have been promoted last year with the players (including one rare talent who he mystifyingly failed to utlise) and resources at our disposal and we blew it. By the summer we could not afford to sack Parky, and although he did what looked like a decent job of rebuilding a squad on scant resources for this season, he has been unable to improve and motivate his squad. Add to that the fact that he spent the bulk of his money on a player and who did not fit into his tactical gameplan (which basically resulted in football so dire that the fans were voting with their feet and reaching for the prozac) and failed to beat teams that we really should be beating if we have any hopes of promotion.....overall leaving the impression that he really didn't know what he was doing.
Did Parky really inherit an impossible situation from Pardew? The team for Parky's first game in charge is full of players now performing at Championship & even Premier League level. A fractured, anxious squad possibly - although one that had achieved spirited results away at Plymouth & Birmingham under Pardew just a couple of weeks before. Look at the side for his first game in charge - arguably more than good enough (bar Primus & Gillespie maybe) to hold it's own in the Championship. This was always my problem with Parky - he should have been able to motivate that lot to achievebetter results in his first season - with the likes of Bailey, Burton, ZZ, Shelvey & Ambrose also available - it really wasn't that bad a squad.
[cite]Posted By: Oakster[/cite]Did Parky really inherit an impossible situation from Pardew? The team for Parky's first game in charge is full of players now performing at Championship & even Premier League level. A fractured, anxious squad possibly - although one that had achieved spirited results away at Plymouth & Birmingham under Pardew just a couple of weeks before. Look at the side for his first game in charge - arguably more than good enough (bar Primus & Gillespie maybe) to hold it's own in the Championship. This was always my problem with Parky - he should have been able to motivate that lot to achievebetter results in his first season - with the likes of Bailey, Burton, ZZ, Shelvey & Ambrose also available - it really wasn't that bad a squad.
Weaver - League One
Cranie - Championship - but who rated him?
Sam - Championship - but we know how inconsistent he is, not all our fans rate him
Primus - retired, was past it
Hudson - Championship, but again not rated highly here, exposed by our poor midfield
Youga - Still here, Parky improved him after he lost his confidence under Pardew
Gillespie - Went to Bradford in League One or Two briefly after playing for us
Racon - League One with us
Semedo - As above
Bouazza - Not the type for a relegation battle, left in January
Waghorn - his first loan at the time, obviously improved since
Varney - was sold soon after Parky took over
Gray - Lower Championship player
Ambrose, Shelvey (16 at the time remember) and ZZ all talented, but along with Sam, Bouazza and Racon there was no room in the team for them all. All attacking players, some of them who couldn't or wouldn't defend
We also had
Bailey - not a regular in a struggling Boro team any more
Todorov - past it, at least in English football
Randolph and Elliot - two inexperienced (at the time) keepers
Holland - wouldn't have got into our League One team last season
McLeod, Dickson, Yassin, Sinclair etc- just look where they are now
That squad was awful, mainly because it was unbalanced, rather than talent (but clearly lacked quality up front and proven players in CM)
Fair analysis Scoham. I'd also add that Pardew seemed to put little thought into the personality of the players he signed. It wasn't just a lack of talent that put us in the lower half of the Championship it was a lack of character and squad harmony.
I think, ultimately, we'd have finished bottom if Pardew had stayed in charge too.
If Parky did nothing else, he got good pros into the building and the stroppy sods out. Relative to the level we're at and possibly even by Championship standards, the new manager will inherit a better squad than Parky did.
Belongs in the "Charlton's new owners are Satanic pig slaughtering Devil worshippers who drink blood" Guardian article file. Michael Slater was seen lending Tony Jiminez an old copy of Dennis Wheatley's The Devil Rides Out (probably)!!
Being on high wages doesn't mean you are any good - Dowie/Mills and Pardew/Murray were responsible for signing a lot of mediocre players on over inflated wages. It's a big mistake to think that we were too good to go down because of our high wages and so called excellent squad - as Scoham says it was an unbalanced squad which PP had to work with
Semedo was injured in the draw at home to Forest, and was unable to play for the rest of the season.
Racon was injured during that November, and wasn't fit again until February.
ZZ had last played at the beginning of that October when we had beaten Ipswich at home and was injured until March.
Bailey had put in a hopelessly below par performance which cost us the game against Bristol City a few weeks before and at that time he seemed out of his depth in the Championship, way out of form until the QPR Boxing Day home game when he scored twice. Much better player after that as his confidence gradually returned.
Our midfield engine room was shot that winter.
It was ultimately not enough, but look how the team performance improved once these players were able to make an impact - just 3 defeats in the last 15 matches that season.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Semedo was injured in the draw at home to Forest, and was unable to play for the rest of the season.
Racon was injured during that November, and wasn't fit again until February.
ZZ had last played at the beginning of that October when we had beaten Ipswich at home and was injured until March.
Bailey had put in a hopelessly below par performance which cost us the game against Bristol City a few weeks before and at that time he seemed out of his depth in the Championship, way out of form until the QPR Boxing Day home game when he scored twice. Much better player after that as his confidence gradually returned.
Our midfield engine room was shot that winter.
It was ultimately not enough, but look how the team performance improved once these players were able to make an impact - just 3 defeats in the last 15 matches that season.
It didn't though Oggy to be fair - far too many draws in the last 15 games - we went down with a whimper 4 points from our 6 home games prior to the meanlingless Coventry game, when there was still plenty to play for.
Did he have such a terrible squad - I don't think so, Barnsley & Plymouth survived at our expense on not much better.
Pardew was right to go for a run of 6 points in his last 9 games, was Parky right to stay for 3 points from his first 9?
All water under the bridge and of course the financial situation that none of us know about probably dictated that he had to stay, but I can't buy into the revisionist view of Parky as some sort of Charlton legend.
I admired his wheeling & dealing efforts this summer and he seems a really nice chap, but in terms of influencing what happens on the pitch he just didnt have it in him to produce the results.
[cite]Posted By: Oakster[/cite]It didn't though Oggy to be fair - far too many draws in the last 15 games - we went down with a whimper 4 points from our 6 home games prior to the meanlingless Coventry game, when there was still plenty to play for.
Absolutely, agree there was still plenty to play for. But the psychology of players in a doomed side and lack of confidence takes it's toll ........ as we saw in chucking away match winning positions at home to Watford, Doncaster, Blackpool and Cardiff.
We made a fair fist of it against promotion chasing sides with draws against Preston, Birmingham, and Reading. And desperately unlucky to lose at Champions Wolves.
Many players are confidence players, and when their confidence dips so of course does their form.
A little bit of luck may have turned draws into wins, bolstered belief - and Parky may have been hailed as the next Houdini.
But there's not always a happy ending in football, we had too much ground to make up even once we started playing much better - and as we know it was not to be.
[cite]Posted By: Oakster[/cite]It didn't though Oggy to be fair - far too many draws in the last 15 games - we went down with a whimper 4 points from our 6 home games prior to the meanlingless Coventry game, when there was still plenty to play for.
Absolutely, agree there was still plenty to play for. But the psychology of players in a doomed side and lack of confidence takes it's toll ........ as we saw in chucking away match winning positions at home to Watford, Doncaster, Blackpool and Cardiff.
We made a fair fist of it against promotion chasing sides with draws against Preston, Birmingham, and Reading. And desperately unlucky to lose at Champions Wolves.
Many players are confidence players, and when their confidence dips so of course does their form.
A little bit of luck may have turned draws into wins, bolstered belief - and Parky may have been hailed as the next Houdini.
But there's not always a happy ending in football, we had too much ground to make up even once we started playing much better - and as we know it was not to be.
Ah you know - I don't see the games, so I'm not qualified to comment too much - what is done, is done!!
How's the weather in Cornwall Oggy? Lovely day here - above freezing, but we have a really cold snap ahead!! I did speak to my mate Gavin as well - I really hope we put on a decent performance for Keith on Sunday!!
Agreed! Can't change anything from the past now of course, but there's always a faint hope lessons can be learned.
Weather in Cornwall? You don't want to be here, Oakster - it's not cold but dark and miserable, and it won't stop raining.
It wasn't much different in daylight.
Your mate Gavin ....Peacock? What did he have to say - has he spoken to his Dad this week?
[cite]Posted By: Oakster[/cite]All water under the bridge and of course the financial situation that none of us know about probably dictated that he had to stay, but I can't buy into the revisionist view of Parky as some sort of Charlton legend.
But I don't think anyone is saying that Parky is some sort of Charlton legend, they're just reacting against the hyperbole that he was absolutely awful and anyone could've done better.
[cite]Posted By: Oakster[/cite]Did Parky really inherit an impossible situation from Pardew? The team for Parky's first game in charge is full of players now performing at Championship & even Premier League level. A fractured, anxious squad possibly - although one that had achieved spirited results away at Plymouth & Birmingham under Pardew just a couple of weeks before. Look at the side for his first game in charge - arguably more than good enough (bar Primus & Gillespie maybe) to hold it's own in the Championship. This was always my problem with Parky - he should have been able to motivate that lot to achievebetter results in his first season - with the likes of Bailey, Burton, ZZ, Shelvey & Ambrose also available - it really wasn't that bad a squad.
Weaver - League One
Cranie - Championship - but who rated him?
Sam - Championship - but we know how inconsistent he is, not all our fans rate him
Primus - retired, was past it
Hudson - Championship, but again not rated highly here, exposed by our poor midfield
Youga - Still here, Parky improved him after he lost his confidence under Pardew
Gillespie - Went to Bradford in League One or Two briefly after playing for us
Racon - League One with us
Semedo - As above
Bouazza - Not the type for a relegation battle, left in January
Waghorn - his first loan at the time, obviously improved since
Varney - was sold soon after Parky took over
Gray - Lower Championship player
Ambrose, Shelvey (16 at the time remember) and ZZ all talented, but along with Sam, Bouazza and Racon there was no room in the team for them all. All attacking players, some of them who couldn't or wouldn't defend
We also had
Bailey - not a regular in a struggling Boro team any more
Todorov - past it, at least in English football
Randolph and Elliot - two inexperienced (at the time) keepers
Holland - wouldn't have got into our League One team last season
McLeod, Dickson, Yassin, Sinclair etc- just look where they are now
That squad was awful, mainly because it was unbalanced, rather than talent (but clearly lacked quality up front and proven players in CM)
Excellent analysis as always Schoham.
So the only player from that lot that was ours and is playing consistently in the top half of The Championship is Hudson. Varney is in The Prem, but as you say he went soon after & JJ is at Liverpool, but hasn't played a full Prem game or if he has not many.
[quote][cite]Posted By: pilchard[/cite]Belongs in the "Charlton's new owners are Satanic pig slaughtering Devil worshippers who drink blood" Guardian article file. Michael Slater was seen lending Tony Jiminez an old copy of Dennis Wheatley's The Devil Rides Out (probably)!![/quote]
Although the article was negative in tone they did include a lot of facts. Personally, i'm waiting before i make a judgement either way. I think by the end of the season we should have a clearer idea of what type of owners they are.
Although, to be honest, what does it matter? They're in charge now and love or loath them we wont have much say in whether they stay or go.
Comments
Kyel Reid was the one that got the fans excited and was slightly surprising at the time that everyone was pleased with Doherty.
"Performances may not have been opening eyes", what on earth does this mean? I kind of expect uninformed poorly researched knee jerk journalism these days, but they shouldn't be making up nonsensical phrases.
Overall 3/10
"It didn’t get too much better. Their replacements were otherwise uninspiring on Parkinson’s shoestring budget, with only Johnnie Jackson from Notts County and Sheffield United's Kyel Reid raising a few hopeful eyebrows in SE7.
Depends on which side of the fence you sit, what spin you give it.
;o)
Well 4-4-2 got that bit right, if they mean Francis, Benson. Abbott, Doherty and the Oxo Tower man.
Not suggesting that better options were available for the money. I doubt they were. But ''uninspiring'' pretty much nails it.
It's a little misinformed at times, but on the whole a pretty fair and balanced article I'd say. And on the Llera thing, I guess they meant at the time rather than now? I think it's quite clear he's been pretty gash since.
There's cameras at every game now, which wouldn't have been the case 20 years ago. Players' records are available at the touch of a button and fans' views can be gathered from forums etc.
Yes there's proportionally a lot more coverage of the top league, but there's actually way more coverage and public information about all clubs than has ever been the case in the past, which is why I'm so irritated about this being so half-arsed.
Fair points, but unless you support a team in the FL you just can't get that deep into them. Cameras at every game, yes, but what do you get, 30 seconds of highlights a week?
You can watch selected highlights or the whole 90 minutes via CAFCTV/Player, and as I understand it if you subscribe to one you can access them all, so for £35 a year FourFourTwo could watch 90 minutes of all (most) Football League games.
The error about Llera is so unprofessional it beggers belief, but on the whole the article is no better than those cut and paste jobs we all ignore on NewsNow.
Well, that's how I see it anyway.
Weaver, Cranie (Sam), Primus, Hudson, Youga, Gillespie, Racon, Semedo, Bouazza, Waghorn ( Varney) , Gray
Cranie - Championship - but who rated him?
Sam - Championship - but we know how inconsistent he is, not all our fans rate him
Primus - retired, was past it
Hudson - Championship, but again not rated highly here, exposed by our poor midfield
Youga - Still here, Parky improved him after he lost his confidence under Pardew
Gillespie - Went to Bradford in League One or Two briefly after playing for us
Racon - League One with us
Semedo - As above
Bouazza - Not the type for a relegation battle, left in January
Waghorn - his first loan at the time, obviously improved since
Varney - was sold soon after Parky took over
Gray - Lower Championship player
Ambrose, Shelvey (16 at the time remember) and ZZ all talented, but along with Sam, Bouazza and Racon there was no room in the team for them all. All attacking players, some of them who couldn't or wouldn't defend
We also had
Bailey - not a regular in a struggling Boro team any more
Todorov - past it, at least in English football
Randolph and Elliot - two inexperienced (at the time) keepers
Holland - wouldn't have got into our League One team last season
McLeod, Dickson, Yassin, Sinclair etc- just look where they are now
That squad was awful, mainly because it was unbalanced, rather than talent (but clearly lacked quality up front and proven players in CM)
I think, ultimately, we'd have finished bottom if Pardew had stayed in charge too.
If Parky did nothing else, he got good pros into the building and the stroppy sods out. Relative to the level we're at and possibly even by Championship standards, the new manager will inherit a better squad than Parky did.
Racon was injured during that November, and wasn't fit again until February.
ZZ had last played at the beginning of that October when we had beaten Ipswich at home and was injured until March.
Bailey had put in a hopelessly below par performance which cost us the game against Bristol City a few weeks before and at that time he seemed out of his depth in the Championship, way out of form until the QPR Boxing Day home game when he scored twice. Much better player after that as his confidence gradually returned.
Our midfield engine room was shot that winter.
It was ultimately not enough, but look how the team performance improved once these players were able to make an impact - just 3 defeats in the last 15 matches that season.
It didn't though Oggy to be fair - far too many draws in the last 15 games - we went down with a whimper 4 points from our 6 home games prior to the meanlingless Coventry game, when there was still plenty to play for.
Did he have such a terrible squad - I don't think so, Barnsley & Plymouth survived at our expense on not much better.
Pardew was right to go for a run of 6 points in his last 9 games, was Parky right to stay for 3 points from his first 9?
All water under the bridge and of course the financial situation that none of us know about probably dictated that he had to stay, but I can't buy into the revisionist view of Parky as some sort of Charlton legend.
I admired his wheeling & dealing efforts this summer and he seems a really nice chap, but in terms of influencing what happens on the pitch he just didnt have it in him to produce the results.
Absolutely, agree there was still plenty to play for. But the psychology of players in a doomed side and lack of confidence takes it's toll ........ as we saw in chucking away match winning positions at home to Watford, Doncaster, Blackpool and Cardiff.
We made a fair fist of it against promotion chasing sides with draws against Preston, Birmingham, and Reading. And desperately unlucky to lose at Champions Wolves.
Many players are confidence players, and when their confidence dips so of course does their form.
A little bit of luck may have turned draws into wins, bolstered belief - and Parky may have been hailed as the next Houdini.
But there's not always a happy ending in football, we had too much ground to make up even once we started playing much better - and as we know it was not to be.
Ah you know - I don't see the games, so I'm not qualified to comment too much - what is done, is done!!
How's the weather in Cornwall Oggy? Lovely day here - above freezing, but we have a really cold snap ahead!! I did speak to my mate Gavin as well - I really hope we put on a decent performance for Keith on Sunday!!
Weather in Cornwall? You don't want to be here, Oakster - it's not cold but dark and miserable, and it won't stop raining.
It wasn't much different in daylight.
Your mate Gavin ....Peacock? What did he have to say - has he spoken to his Dad this week?
Excellent analysis as always Schoham.
So the only player from that lot that was ours and is playing consistently in the top half of The Championship is Hudson. Varney is in The Prem, but as you say he went soon after & JJ is at Liverpool, but hasn't played a full Prem game or if he has not many.
Although the article was negative in tone they did include a lot of facts. Personally, i'm waiting before i make a judgement either way. I think by the end of the season we should have a clearer idea of what type of owners they are.
Although, to be honest, what does it matter? They're in charge now and love or loath them we wont have much say in whether they stay or go.