[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]I am still of the opinion he could have kept us in the Championship if he had chosen to do so but didn't at the expense of trying to keep his job, which he ultimately did, and I still havn't forgiven him for that.
Nope, I've tried, and just cant see the logic in this.
me neither. He let us go down and that meant he was trying to keep his job?
I know it sounds daft but bare with me. In my opinion he was more concerned with not losing games to the detriment of trying to win them. Two games stick out with me, I doubt either of you were there and so can't comment. Swansea away. Fifteen minutes to go and it was one-all. It was an end to end game and either side could have won it. However, we went from playing two up front and in with a chance of grabbing a winner to taking off a striker and bringing on a midfielder to protect the point we had. Similarly a couple of weeks later at Reading we drew 2-2 but did likewise and preserved the point we had. We were bottom of the table and needed wins. Those extra four points, if gained, could have given confidence a boost and who knows what could have happened. As it is we went down. Parky was able then to say 'hey, I arrested the decline and we only lost two of our last ten games' or whatever it was I can't remember. Better than saying 'hey, we went down' and lost say six of our last ten which we could have done. It looks like he steadied a sinking ship and by doing so made himself look better and he kept his job. We could have gambled in those two games, and others, and lost and his record would have looked worse and he could have lost his job. Self preservation. We were already down, doomed, but were we? If we had attacked those games, gambled and won who know what would have happened ? We may have stayed up. May have. We will never know. In my opinion we could have, maybe should have. That we didn't is down to Parky. Forgive me if I'm not shouting his name from the rooftops just yet.
I think the same point could be made for the reason why we missed out on promotion last season as well. He was far too cautious and negative from the xmas - March/April period when the team was crying out for some creativity, but he refused to play our most creative player. I think the Brighton game proved to him that unless he had a major change in attitude, his managerial future would be in serious trouble. It's quite remarkable that the same players are suddenly performing brilliantly. It has nothing to do with the player's ability, most of us knew that we had a very talented squad, IMO it has more to do with a change in outlook from Parky and the coaching staff. It's as if they have finally been given a license to play some football. Long may it continue.
[cite]Posted By: Bermuda_red[/cite]Interesting statistic and a number of factors:
Teams consider us a "big" club and come for the draw or breakaway 1-0, so set up shop accordingly.
I saw the Sheff Wed. game and have to say that the tactics surprised me. 1-0 up 40 mins gone, creating chances & Wednesday had a corner. They had 8 players up, we had the whole team back in the last third. Not even a lone striker to keep the 2 wednesday defenders on the half way company. Seemed a little negative to me and looked like we were going for the 1-0 win. Second half performance supported that theory against what I considered to be woeful opposite.
That said, if we consider the Brighton game as ground zero/turning point, we have only played the one home league game (Sheff. Wednesday) since. I guess the acid test will be the next couple of league games........
did we concede from that corner?
No, we didn't, but that was down to very poor finishing, not some tactical masterpiece dreamt up on the training ground. The ball scuffed/pinged its way around the box for ages before being sliced away. All very Eltham & District league. Bringing whole team back for a first half corner, when we are leading and having lions share of the ball is a pretty negative tactic. Signals a lack of confidence to opposition.
Maybe it pinged about just because there were so many bodies in there to block the shots and if we'd emptied the box they would have had more room to pick out a shot.
Curbs nearly always pulled everyone back at corners so he must have lacked confidence as well.
I will say that I question the logic of bringing everyone back to defend a corner.
With no forward on the halfway line, then his marker comes ambling into our box as he has nothing to do.
I suppose the idea is to cram the penalty area with so many bodies that opponents can't get a clear header or space to get a shot away.
We half-clear but with no one up front to even challenge for the clearance, the ball comes straight back putting the defence under renewed pressure. We're not only locked into our own half, but we can't get outside our box either.
Pressure is usually relieved only by the ball going out of play.
Not only negative but puts more unnecessary pressure on the defence.
I think part of the reason we have pulled everybody back for corners is that, under Curbs in the Prem and until this season really, physically we have been much smaller than other teams hence the need to crowd the box in an attempt to avoid being physically dominated.
We now have 4 6 footers in our back 4 plus one or more of Benson, Abbott or Akpo. Semedo must also be close on 6 foot although I still remember Tudgay of sheffield Wednesday outmuscling him to head a goal from a corner in "Iwelumo's match."
It would be interesting to leave someone like Waggy, Reid or Martin up as if the ball does come out they are more than capable of going all the way on their own at this level.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]I am still of the opinion he could have kept us in the Championship if he had chosen to do so but didn't at the expense of trying to keep his job, which he ultimately did, and I still havn't forgiven him for that.
Nope, I've tried, and just cant see the logic in this.
me neither. He let us go down and that meant he was trying to keep his job?
I know it sounds daft but bare with me. In my opinion he was more concerned with not losing games to the detriment of trying to win them. Two games stick out with me, I doubt either of you were there and so can't comment. Swansea away. Fifteen minutes to go and it was one-all. It was an end to end game and either side could have won it. However, we went from playing two up front and in with a chance of grabbing a winner to taking off a striker and bringing on a midfielder to protect the point we had. Similarly a couple of weeks later at Reading we drew 2-2 but did likewise and preserved the point we had. We were bottom of the table and needed wins. Those extra four points, if gained, could have given confidence a boost and who knows what could have happened. As it is we went down. Parky was able then to say 'hey, I arrested the decline and we only lost two of our last ten games' or whatever it was I can't remember. Better than saying 'hey, we went down' and lost say six of our last ten which we could have done. It looks like he steadied a sinking ship and by doing so made himself look better and he kept his job. We could have gambled in those two games, and others, and lost and his record would have looked worse and he could have lost his job. Self preservation. We were already down, doomed, but were we? If we had attacked those games, gambled and won who know what would have happened ? We may have stayed up. May have. We will never know. In my opinion we could have, maybe should have. That we didn't is down to Parky. Forgive me if I'm not shouting his name from the rooftops just yet.
I think the same point could be made for the reason why we missed out on promotion last season as well. He was far too cautious and negative from the xmas - March/April period when the team was crying out for some creativity, but he refused to play our most creative player. I think the Brighton game proved to him that unless he had a major change in attitude, his managerial future would be in serious trouble. It's quite remarkable that the same players are suddenly performing brilliantly. It has nothing to do with the player's ability, most of us knew that we had a very talented squad, IMO it has more to do with a change in outlook from Parky and the coaching staff. It's as if they have finally been given a license to play some football. Long may it continue.
Well, what a surprise. It's all been going so well lately that the Parky bashers haven't had much chance to vent their spleen. But here they are again, represented by Large & QA who are so obsessed with some imaginary failings in years gone by that they just can't bear our current excellent run to pass without throwing in some negative comments. Give it a break folks and try to find some enjoyment in our current superb form!!
I think one of the recent encouraging features has been our not hanging back in games having got our noses in front. I'm not a Parky convert based on a handful of games, but I do admire anyone who learns from errors and pushes on from there, and that's just what he appears to be doing. I wonder how close to the edge the manager and team came during the near-mess up at Carlisle and wonder if that maybe has had a more profound effect on team attitude than the mauling by Brighton.
So, we've all been wondering what's changed lately, then Large admits that he didn't go to Carlisle. We won. He didn't go to Swindon. We won. He didn't go to Peterboro. We won. Tell you what, Large, stay at home on Saturday, will you, please? ;-)
[cite]Posted By: Mortimerician[/cite]I think one of the recent encouraging features has been our not hanging back in games having got our noses in front. I'm not a Parky convert based on a handful of games, but I do admire anyone who learns from errors and pushes on from there, and that's just what he appears to be doing. I wonder how close to the edge the manager and team came during the near-mess up at Carlisle and wonder if that maybe has had a more profound effect on team attitude than the mauling by Brighton.
There's been a certain steely reserve and ruthlessness about the way we've gone about our last two league away wins - a will to win that I've not seen in this or any other Charlton side for a long while.
I'm not going to get carried away, but even last season most of our wins were not totally convincing or had a big but attached to them. A win is a win, it's true, but when you demolish teams like Swindon and Peterborough on their own patch, it's imposible not to take more heart from that than a scrappy 1-0 at home to Oldham (or whoever).
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]So, we've all been wondering what's changed lately, then Large admits that he didn't go to Carlisle. We won. He didn't go to Swindon. We won. He didn't go to Peterboro. We won. Tell you what, Large, stay at home on Saturday, will you, please? ;-)
does that mean it's okay for me to go tomorrow night? ;-(
I reckon that our excellent form is due to Large's absence. With all that negativity removed the players are thriving. :-)
NB In the politest possible way Large I really think your bonkers if you believe what you say.
It is said on numerous occasions that "so and so is the craziest post of the year", but your statement that Parky deliberately relegated us in order to keep his job, really is certifiable. Sorry, I don't want to appear rude, but it cannot be ignored.
Well, what a surprise. It's all been going so well lately that the Parky bashers haven't had much chance to vent their spleen. But here they are again, represented by Large & QA who are so obsessed with some imaginary failings in years gone by that they just can't bear our current excellent run to pass without throwing in some negative comments. Give it a break folks and try to find some enjoyment in our current superb form!!
No Parky bashing from me Red. I'm on the record here in saying that generally he has done a good job in very difficult circumstances. But that's not to say that he doesn't have his faults. Who doesn't BTW ? It's been a great frustration to me that for the past couple of seasons our performances haven't reflected the quality in the squad. Large pointed out why he thought this was the case and I agreed with him, although the suggestion that he deliberately got us relegated was probably pushing it too far. However I think there may well be some merit in the suggestion that he has been playing in this over cautious way due to the fear of loosing his job, which is understandable.
To suggest that I am not enjoying this current run is just ridiculous, I'm lovin it. I will always give credit where credit is due and criticise where I feel it's justified. It's my firm belief that at some stage in the future Parky will admit, if not openly, then to himself, that pre Brighton he didn't allow the players to express themselves as much as he should have.
[cite]Posted By: Covered End[/cite]I reckon that our excellent form is due to Large's absence. With all that negativity removed the players are thriving. :-)
NB In the politest possible way Large I really think your bonkers if you believe what you say.
It is said on numerous occasions that "so and so is the craziest post of the year", but your statement that Parky deliberately relegated us in order to keep his job, really is certifiable. Sorry, I don't want to appear rude, but it cannot be ignored.
I think you should read it again. I didn't say he deliberately relegated us in order to keep his job. I said he didn't throw enough caution to the wind to go for wins instead of settling for draws when those extra points, if gained, may have kept us up. Big difference.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]So, we've all been wondering what's changed lately, then Large admits that he didn't go to Carlisle. We won. He didn't go to Swindon. We won. He didn't go to Peterboro. We won. Tell you what, Large, stay at home on Saturday, will you, please? ;-)
does that mean it's okay for me to go tomorrow night? ;-(
You're very welcome to go tomorrow night. Where you go is anyone's guess, but I imagine a few on here will gladly give you some suggestions ;-) ;-)
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]So, we've all been wondering what's changed lately, then Large admits that he didn't go to Carlisle. We won. He didn't go to Swindon. We won. He didn't go to Peterboro. We won. Tell you what, Large, stay at home on Saturday, will you, please? ;-)
does that mean it's okay for me to go tomorrow night? ;-(
You're very welcome to go tomorrow night. Where you go is anyone's guess, but I imagine a few on here will gladly give you some suggestions ;-) ;-)
Well pleased that we seem to be getting our act together although i think its once we start dismantling teams at home and scoring more than the odd goal that we can really start believing. Think our team is just more suited to playing away due to the personnel in central midfield but i'll be more than happy to be proved completely wrong on Saturday.
We may be playing our next two league games against managers more interested in keeping their jobs than trying to stay up, so they'll probably go for the 0-0 draw.
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]Red Pete said:
Well, what a surprise. It's all been going so well lately that the Parky bashers haven't had much chance to vent their spleen. But here they are again, represented by Large & QA who are so obsessed with some imaginary failings in years gone by that they just can't bear our current excellent run to pass without throwing in some negative comments. Give it a break folks and try to find some enjoyment in our current superb form!!
No Parky bashing from me Red. I'm on the record here in saying that generally he has done a good job in very difficult circumstances. But that's not to say that he doesn't have his faults. Who doesn't BTW ? It's been a great frustration to me that for the past couple of seasons our performances haven't reflected the quality in the squad. Large pointed out why he thought this was the case and I agreed with him, although the suggestion that he deliberately got us relegated was probably pushing it too far. However I think there may well be some merit in the suggestion that he has been playing in this over cautious way due to the fear of loosing his job, which is understandable.
To suggest that I am not enjoying this current run is just ridiculous, I'm lovin it. I will always give credit where credit is due and criticise where I feel it's justified. It's my firm belief that at some stage in the future Parky will admit, if not openly, then to himself, that pre Brighton he didn't allow the players to express themselves as much as he should have.
I completely agree q_a. I think your other post on page 1 was also bang on the money. I also believe the Brighton game was a kick up parky and the players arse. Why do people keep crying about the slightest bit of criticism?!...drives me mad. We lost 4-0 at home. Things needed to change, they have, and as you say long may it continue.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]So, we've all been wondering what's changed lately, then Large admits that he didn't go to Carlisle. We won. He didn't go to Swindon. We won. He didn't go to Peterboro. We won. Tell you what, Large, stay at home on Saturday, will you, please? ;-)
does that mean it's okay for me to go tomorrow night? ;-(
You're very welcome to go tomorrow night. Where you go is anyone's guess, but I imagine a few on here will gladly give you some suggestions ;-) ;-)
Comments
I think the same point could be made for the reason why we missed out on promotion last season as well. He was far too cautious and negative from the xmas - March/April period when the team was crying out for some creativity, but he refused to play our most creative player. I think the Brighton game proved to him that unless he had a major change in attitude, his managerial future would be in serious trouble. It's quite remarkable that the same players are suddenly performing brilliantly. It has nothing to do with the player's ability, most of us knew that we had a very talented squad, IMO it has more to do with a change in outlook from Parky and the coaching staff. It's as if they have finally been given a license to play some football. Long may it continue.
No, we didn't, but that was down to very poor finishing, not some tactical masterpiece dreamt up on the training ground. The ball scuffed/pinged its way around the box for ages before being sliced away. All very Eltham & District league. Bringing whole team back for a first half corner, when we are leading and having lions share of the ball is a pretty negative tactic. Signals a lack of confidence to opposition.
Maybe it pinged about just because there were so many bodies in there to block the shots and if we'd emptied the box they would have had more room to pick out a shot.
Curbs nearly always pulled everyone back at corners so he must have lacked confidence as well.
With no forward on the halfway line, then his marker comes ambling into our box as he has nothing to do.
I suppose the idea is to cram the penalty area with so many bodies that opponents can't get a clear header or space to get a shot away.
We half-clear but with no one up front to even challenge for the clearance, the ball comes straight back putting the defence under renewed pressure. We're not only locked into our own half, but we can't get outside our box either.
Pressure is usually relieved only by the ball going out of play.
Not only negative but puts more unnecessary pressure on the defence.
We now have 4 6 footers in our back 4 plus one or more of Benson, Abbott or Akpo. Semedo must also be close on 6 foot although I still remember Tudgay of sheffield Wednesday outmuscling him to head a goal from a corner in "Iwelumo's match."
It would be interesting to leave someone like Waggy, Reid or Martin up as if the ball does come out they are more than capable of going all the way on their own at this level.
nah, it's alright, I'll hang around.
agree entirely, well said.
There's been a certain steely reserve and ruthlessness about the way we've gone about our last two league away wins - a will to win that I've not seen in this or any other Charlton side for a long while.
I'm not going to get carried away, but even last season most of our wins were not totally convincing or had a big but attached to them. A win is a win, it's true, but when you demolish teams like Swindon and Peterborough on their own patch, it's imposible not to take more heart from that than a scrappy 1-0 at home to Oldham (or whoever).
does that mean it's okay for me to go tomorrow night? ;-(
NB In the politest possible way Large I really think your bonkers if you believe what you say.
It is said on numerous occasions that "so and so is the craziest post of the year", but your statement that Parky deliberately relegated us in order to keep his job, really is certifiable. Sorry, I don't want to appear rude, but it cannot be ignored.
People have had a difference of opinion and I bet my life on the fact there's another thread out there about Parkinson's tactics.
People have had a difference of opinion and I bet my life on the fact there's another thread out there about Parkinson's tactics.
Well, what a surprise. It's all been going so well lately that the Parky bashers haven't had much chance to vent their spleen. But here they are again, represented by Large & QA who are so obsessed with some imaginary failings in years gone by that they just can't bear our current excellent run to pass without throwing in some negative comments. Give it a break folks and try to find some enjoyment in our current superb form!!
No Parky bashing from me Red. I'm on the record here in saying that generally he has done a good job in very difficult circumstances. But that's not to say that he doesn't have his faults. Who doesn't BTW ? It's been a great frustration to me that for the past couple of seasons our performances haven't reflected the quality in the squad. Large pointed out why he thought this was the case and I agreed with him, although the suggestion that he deliberately got us relegated was probably pushing it too far. However I think there may well be some merit in the suggestion that he has been playing in this over cautious way due to the fear of loosing his job, which is understandable.
To suggest that I am not enjoying this current run is just ridiculous, I'm lovin it. I will always give credit where credit is due and criticise where I feel it's justified. It's my firm belief that at some stage in the future Parky will admit, if not openly, then to himself, that pre Brighton he didn't allow the players to express themselves as much as he should have.
I think you should read it again. I didn't say he deliberately relegated us in order to keep his job. I said he didn't throw enough caution to the wind to go for wins instead of settling for draws when those extra points, if gained, may have kept us up. Big difference.
You're very welcome to go tomorrow night. Where you go is anyone's guess, but I imagine a few on here will gladly give you some suggestions ;-) ;-)
that was written yesterday !!
I completely agree q_a. I think your other post on page 1 was also bang on the money. I also believe the Brighton game was a kick up parky and the players arse. Why do people keep crying about the slightest bit of criticism?!...drives me mad. We lost 4-0 at home. Things needed to change, they have, and as you say long may it continue.
WHOOSH!