A lot of genuine anger out there for a worthwhile cause ... however the day has ... once again ... been hijacked by the few with the events in Millbank.
As Sachzarb just tweeted 'Outside Millbank, what a bad end to an amazing day'
Disgraceful scenes. Soon as the batons come out they'll be pleading police brutality but looking at the missiles thrown at female officers, unprotected and unarmoured OB before the riot squad arrived, who'd want to be a copper?
amazing my arse. Most of them have never paid a penny in tax so who do they think ends up paying for the damage caused. WE DO. And eight people in hospital too. Great day. Not helped their cause at all.
No doubt about it a genuine protest has been hi-jacked by mindless, anarchist, anti-authority thugs. They have wrecked an occasion for 85-90% of others. Hope anyone in that building or kicking off with the old bill get done on CCTV and have the book thrown at them.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]amazing my arse. Most of them have never paid a penny in tax so who do they think ends up paying for the damage caused. WE DO. And eight people in hospital too. Great day. Not helped their cause at all.
I believe he was referring to the fact that the vast majority of the students have been peaceful and have put their message across in a peaceful way ... which has been hijacked this afternoon by prats (who appear to have little or no connection with NUS) invading Millbank and assaulting OB. I have no sympathy for these asswipes who have used the day for their own political agenda but have genuine sympathy for those who have to face incredibly high tuition fees.
[cite]Posted By: lancashire lad[/cite]A better idea would be to reduce the number of universities by getting rid of the courses that do not lead to a meaningful career.
[cite]Posted By: lancashire lad[/cite]A better idea would be to reduce the number of universities by getting rid of the courses that do not lead to a meaningful career.
Now that I can 100% agree with. All this shit about trying to get everyone to go to university is why it costs me £150 to get a £25 part replaced in my boiler by a Polish geezer who can't speak a word of English and orders the wrong part as a result - leaving me with no hot water for three days.
We don't NEED 30,000 grime rappers, social science graduates or fine art restorers graduating every year. We DO need 30,000 plumbers.
[cite]Posted By: lancashire lad[/cite]A better idea would be to reduce the number of universities by getting rid of the courses that do not lead to a meaningful career.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]amazing my arse. Most of them have never paid a penny in tax so who do they think ends up paying for the damage caused. WE DO. And eight people in hospital too. Great day. Not helped their cause at all.
I believe he was referring to the fact that the vast majority of the students have been peaceful and have put their message across in a peaceful way ... which has been hijacked this afternoon by prats (who appear to have little or no connection with NUS) invading Millbank and assaulting OB. I have no sympathy for these asswipes who have used the day for their own political agenda but have genuine sympathy for those who have to face incredibly high tuition fees.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]amazing my arse. Most of them have never paid a penny in tax
What do you think they'll be doing for the next forty years?
hopefully paying tax but some are probably doing a degree in astrophysics and will end up as a cashier in a Bank with a worthless degree that cost them a fortune to obtain and didn't utilise properly. And that's withoutt those doing a degree in David Beckham .......
Where the country needs specific skills - scientists etc... there should be no fees for relevant courses. Other courses should have fees based on their importance so that some would require 100% funding. Cant see how anybody could complain about that but they still would. Can't undertsand why a company would value somebody who has spent 3 years getting say a history degree (when job is nothing to do with history)over somebody who has got 3 years business experience. I think there is a certain snobbery about degrees that defies logic (especially in public sector). Now the Private sector seems to be coming to that conclusion, people with degress in history ,media studies and similar subjects are complaining that they can't find well paid jobs. Well maybe they should have taken a more useful degree then!
Speaking as now a postgraduate student... too many people go to university, universities don't have enough resources, they don't do enough to help or "tutor" students. It is not not feasible for everyone to go to university. We need to catch people pre-GCSE and concentrate on apprenticeships/vocational schemes and actively dilute who goes to university and who doesn't. Universities can't cope. It is an unsustainable model. This pre-conception that you're almost stupid if you don't go to university is a grave problem and I've had many conversations about this exact subject with my brother in law who is an electrician. Society needs skilled people as much as they need 'educated' people. There are too many passengers at university there for the booze, the club 18-30 mentality and the easy life.
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]Speaking as now a postgraduate student... too many people go to university, university's don't have enough resources, they don't do enough to help or "tutor" students. It is not not feasible for everyone to go to university. We need to catch people pre-GCSE and concentrate on apprenticeships/vocational schemes and actively dilute who goes to university and who doesn't. Universities can't cope. It is an unsustainable model. This pre-conception that you're almost stupid if you don't go to university is a grave problem and I've had many conversations about this exact subject with my brother in law who is an electrician. Society needs skilled people as much as they need 'educated' people. There are too many passengers at university there for the booze, the club 18-30 mentality and the easy life.
Right I am going to wade in here, I am deeply concerned about tuition fees, my son is nearly 15 and is wanting to go to University to do a degree, which he needs for his chosen career (not getting into the meaningful degree debate I am worried about the amount of debt he will have as a result of these changes. A lot of us benefited from a University education without the costs, my son will be left with a huge debt to pay off. There is a way to protest and this is certainly not the way, its been ruined by a very small minority and as a result all students will be tarred by their brush.
A degree isn't just about what you learn but techniques. Knowing a lot about history may not be much use for anyone outside a school or a museum but you learn how to sift through evidence and put an argument together (lots of people with history degrees end up becoming lawyers).
Of course, that's not to say that some other poor sod should have to pay for you to get a degree.
I just don't get those who stand by and do nothing whilst others are breaking the law and in their name.
But i suppose thats why I am in the career I am which did not need a degree.
Pete, I feel for your boy. That is why I don't agree with a degree that is done just because you can. Do open university if you want one that badly and pay for it yourself.
Speaking as a Student, and one who does a traditional degree course, the type of people who go on these marches are those who do not go to University for the right reasons (the qualification) and think that by going on a march or two they are some kind of rebels- bet if you did a survey of the courses these people take- the likes of Drama would be very well represented. I would imagine, a lot of those who went today were posh kids who in fact are being funded by Daddy and are rebelling/protesting for the sheer sake of it. This may seem like a sweeping generalisation, but it is based on some of the students I have met over the last couple of years.
I have spent most of today in tutorials and the library (as well as watching Countdown and avoiding all types of tax).
Getting back on topic, it was decided long ago (by Mrs Thatcher's Government) that the economy of this country should move away from being based on manufacturing to being based on service industries. Hence her war on the unions and destruction of the coal industry. You can argue the rights and wrongs of that idea, but this is where we find ourselves.
If we are not making things, but instead are working in areas such as banking, we need a highly educated workforce and this is why it is seen as desirable to have a large number of people going to university and gaining degrees. The question then arises who should pay for this education? Originally, the answer was "the country", i.e. everybody who pays taxes. These days the answer is that the country pays for some of it and the rest is picked up by the parents and/or the students.
It should never be the aim for everyone to have a degree, otherwise who would carry out those essential jobs which are better suited to an apprenticeship type arrangement - plumbers, electricians. builders, etc.
In my opinion, all young people, whatever their home circumstances (i.e. rich or poor) should be given the opportunity to go to university (assuming they have the ability) and whether or not they go should not rely on whether or not daddy can afford it. But then I'm a bit of a socialist on the quiet!
Comments
Fire extinguisher thrown off of the roof at the police apparently.
As Sachzarb just tweeted 'Outside Millbank, what a bad end to an amazing day'
I believe he was referring to the fact that the vast majority of the students have been peaceful and have put their message across in a peaceful way ... which has been hijacked this afternoon by prats (who appear to have little or no connection with NUS) invading Millbank and assaulting OB. I have no sympathy for these asswipes who have used the day for their own political agenda but have genuine sympathy for those who have to face incredibly high tuition fees.
Spot on.
We don't NEED 30,000 grime rappers, social science graduates or fine art restorers graduating every year. We DO need 30,000 plumbers.
What's a meaningful career in your opinion then?
exactly what I said.
Brunello = put the bait away
Pathetic scenes imo.
Wonder, did any of the legitimate protesters try to stop those insistant on ruining their amazing day?
Is Akpo paying for shooting lessons?
:-)
hopefully paying tax but some are probably doing a degree in astrophysics and will end up as a cashier in a Bank with a worthless degree that cost them a fortune to obtain and didn't utilise properly. And that's withoutt those doing a degree in David Beckham .......
that better ?
insistent as you were concerned about spelling and grammar on the other thread :-)
Sadly there will always be those who will hi jack a legitimate cause.
All football fans are hooligans. All students are soap dodging, tax dodging hooligans. Get the drift?
We live in a lazy society whereby the innocent majority get punished and oppressed for the sins of the guilty minority.
This is an excellent comment ... agreed.
There is a way to protest and this is certainly not the way, its been ruined by a very small minority and as a result all students will be tarred by their brush.
Of course, that's not to say that some other poor sod should have to pay for you to get a degree.
Sorry I don't bother to proof-read my posts. Edited.
I just don't get those who stand by and do nothing whilst others are breaking the law and in their name.
But i suppose thats why I am in the career I am which did not need a degree.
Pete, I feel for your boy. That is why I don't agree with a degree that is done just because you can. Do open university if you want one that badly and pay for it yourself.
I have spent most of today in tutorials and the library (as well as watching Countdown and avoiding all types of tax).
LOL
If we are not making things, but instead are working in areas such as banking, we need a highly educated workforce and this is why it is seen as desirable to have a large number of people going to university and gaining degrees. The question then arises who should pay for this education? Originally, the answer was "the country", i.e. everybody who pays taxes. These days the answer is that the country pays for some of it and the rest is picked up by the parents and/or the students.
It should never be the aim for everyone to have a degree, otherwise who would carry out those essential jobs which are better suited to an apprenticeship type arrangement - plumbers, electricians. builders, etc.
In my opinion, all young people, whatever their home circumstances (i.e. rich or poor) should be given the opportunity to go to university (assuming they have the ability) and whether or not they go should not rely on whether or not daddy can afford it. But then I'm a bit of a socialist on the quiet!