Sam is a better footballer, but Wagstaff I think will achieve more, he has that bit of desire and determination that helps decent, but not over-talented players make the most of their ability. Sam flatters a bit too much, he'll have a few good games and a few good moments, but when it's time to put the graft in he's goes off the boil.
[cite]Posted By: charlton_hero[/cite]Waggy knows all about Charlton and has plenty of passion. Charlton are his second team and I could see him becoming a modern day John Robinson.
That was what I was thinking. Apart from lacking Robbo's tendency to go off at refs, they strike me as being quite similar. Sam, on the other hand reminds me a bit of a young Paul Mortimer - more skillful but less consistent, and often frustrating.
[cite]Posted By: charlton_hero[/cite]Waggy knows all about Charlton and has plenty of passion. Charlton are his second team and I could see him becoming a modern day John Robinson.
That was what I was thinking. Apart from lacking Robbo's tendency to go off at refs, they strike me as being quite similar. Sam, on the other hand reminds me a bit of a young Paul Mortimer - more skillful but less consistent, and often frustrating.
Agree about Waggy being a little bit like Robbo but i don't see any resemblance between Lloyd Sam and Paul Mortimer. Morts had more skill in his little finger than Sam will ever have with his feet.
[cite]Posted By: Bedsaddick[/cite] i don't see any resemblance between Lloyd Sam and Paul Mortimer. Morts had more skill in his little finger than Sam will ever have with his feet.
exactly .......
morts wouldn't track back enough for some of our (clueless) fans ....... although when he slid in for a ball it was pure art as he bounced back up with the ball at his feet and then went off to orchestrate some magic ............
Waggy was outstanding on Saturday, particularly in the last 15 minutes - made 5 or so runs up the right - went past the left wing and left back each time without much difficultly. Each time took a different approach - so not predictable.
Akpo should have done much better with the great cut back pass to him straight in front of goal - went through his legs some how.
Waggy got the team going after the 3rd goal and got us back in the game.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Sam is a better footballer, but Wagstaff I think will achieve more, he has that bit of desire and determination that helps decent, but not over-talented players make the most of their ability. Sam flatters a bit too much, he'll have a few good games and a few good moments, but when it's time to put the graft in he's goes off the boil.
Though to be fair to Sam, he helped out defensively and was better at defending than the likes of Ambrose, Bouazza, Thomas and Rommedahl.
[cite]Posted By: charlton_hero[/cite]Waggy knows all about Charlton and has plenty of passion. Charlton are his second team and I could see him becoming a modern day John Robinson.
That was what I was thinking. Apart from lacking Robbo's tendency to go off at refs, they strike me as being quite similar. Sam, on the other hand reminds me a bit of a young Paul Mortimer - more skillful but less consistent, and often frustrating.
Agree about Waggy being a little bit like Robbo but i don't see any resemblance between Lloyd Sam and Paul Mortimer. Morts had more skill in his little finger than Sam will ever have with his feet.
The trouble is, you're thinking of the Valley era Morts, once he'd matured into his game - Millwall in the snow, that superb solo goal against Norwich etc. I'm talking about Selhurst era Morts, where his game was more about pace, but he had a tendency to run into defenders and lose the ball (nowhere near as much as Mark Stuart mind you). Remember the 2-2 draw with Millwall at the Old Den, where we'd been 2-0 up with 4 mins to go? It was Morts losing the ball by the corner flag that lead to their equaliser. If anything, I'd say the big difference between him at that stage and Sam was that he was a much better tackler.
Untrue. Whilst at first he seemed to have the tactical accuity of a Samba dancer on a whale hunt, by the 2008/9 season he became the most reliable midfielder positionally in the whole team; and I include Semedo in that as he was woeful position wise in midfield when we got the ball and transitioned to offense. Sam had weaknesses in his game but for the last few seasons in one of his bad matches he never went missing defensively, unlike a whole host of recent Charlton players.
Sam last season was never a liability. And although he rarely challenged for 50/50 ball, he didn't cower like ZZ, Racon and Ambrose if he did have to challenge a vaguely difficult header; did it a few times against Swindon when he was clearly knackered after an excellent first half. Difference being with Waggy is that you'll know game in and game out he'll run full pelt into a 50/50, and quite likely win ball. Hardly any players do that in the Charlton squad even now.
I agree with the remark that Sam never lived up to his potential, and never looked like he would. Having said that he did improve and much of the frustration was that he became our major creative outlet, whilst other more senior pros shirked responsibility. He seemed to get more opprobrium than many other players who wouldn't even show for the ball let alone tackle. For his improvement and effectiveness, there are many others who I disliked above him.
Comments
Agree about Waggy being a little bit like Robbo but i don't see any resemblance between Lloyd Sam and Paul Mortimer. Morts had more skill in his little finger than Sam will ever have with his feet.
exactly .......
morts wouldn't track back enough for some of our (clueless) fans ....... although when he slid in for a ball it was pure art as he bounced back up with the ball at his feet and then went off to orchestrate some magic ............
never forget the magic of morts
Akpo should have done much better with the great cut back pass to him straight in front of goal - went through his legs some how.
Waggy got the team going after the 3rd goal and got us back in the game.
Engine skill and drive to achieve
3 things alltogether that makes a player
Sam only had 1 and that was Skill
Sam last season was never a liability. And although he rarely challenged for 50/50 ball, he didn't cower like ZZ, Racon and Ambrose if he did have to challenge a vaguely difficult header; did it a few times against Swindon when he was clearly knackered after an excellent first half. Difference being with Waggy is that you'll know game in and game out he'll run full pelt into a 50/50, and quite likely win ball. Hardly any players do that in the Charlton squad even now.
Waggy - Inconsistant but does try and get up and down the line
Sam - Lazy
Sam never ever shook the tag of young with potential he never ever ever did enough for me